what is eating my calcium and magnesium?

[Jerfrog]

This is so annoying. 2 weeks ago i got my water tested and my calcium was at 350, mag was at 930. I did a week of 1 gallon water changes daily. I was also dosing Seachem mag buffer. Dome color in my favias came back but thats it. Well, i just got my water tested again on wednesday and my CAL is at 250 and my mg is at 990. Since then ive been dosing 3 tsp's of mag a day and started dosing B-Ionic Alk&Cal.

 

on Saturday i woke up and my hammer colony was dead, my favias dead, dendro dead, and about 15 ricordea dead. It doesnt make sense because other that those corals i only have zoas, a clam, and a small chalice and those are completely fine.

 

Some zoa frags are actually closed up and getting full of diatom's.

 

Im getting my saltwater and RO from my LFS and they use Tropic Marin salt.

 

Should i do a %50 water change and keep up on dosing? Maybe i should get my water from another store....

 

wtf am i supposed to do? Ive lost about $600 is corals already. It a 24g Aquapod btw.

[reefer916]

How's the rest of your water specs? Could it be a bad mag test kit. Sounds like your dosing a lot of mag.

[zemuss]

List the rest of your params so someone can help.

 

Maybe its not just the CAL and MAG but something else?

[Jerfrog]

i only have a tetra test kit. I got my mg and ca tested at the lfs, they use salifert kits. I have Redsea test kits for them but they read they same as salifert.

 

Ill test for the other things

[Jerfrog]

nitrite - 0.3

ammonia - 0

pH - 8.0

 

cant find the nitrate or alk tests...

[Nano sapiens]

Wow, that's a world of hurt right there. Sorry for your loss.

 

I'd like to say there is a 'quick fix', but realistically you have some work ahead of you to bring this tank back where it should be.

 

Your Nitrite should be showing '0' of course, but its probably high due to the die off.

 

I use the Seachem 'Reef Advantage Magnesium', but in a much smaller dose than what you were doing. It is possible that you threw your system's water chemistry into disarray since this product can upset the ionic balance in large doses (its fine with the recommended manufacturer doses and regular water changes). NEVER mix it directly with carbonate supplements!

 

I'd suggest making up your own water so that YOU can control the process...not the LFS. Use good RO/Di or distilled water and a quality salt mix. Use a quality hydrometer or a refractometer.

 

Invest in some good test kits (Salifert, Elos, etc.) and first test those kits against another successful hobbyist's kits or a LFS you can really trust (even the best of kits can be off sometimes). I've used the Red Sea MG test kits and the two kits I used were off from each other by a good margin, so I wouldn't recommend them. Keep a journal of your parameters to help diagnose trends that may cause problems down the road.

 

Good luck and get 'er back into shape!

[rhunter513]

Do that 50% water change and stop all dosing. Wait at least 7 days and do another smaller water change - 5gallons. During that 7days, read up on reef water chemistry. There is a ton of good info online: Start with reef central.com. You were doing too much dosing too fast and it caused big Ph swings and threw off your ionic balance. Dosing alk, ca and mag should do done with extreme care and adjustments should be made slowly over many days/weeks Check out this link for great info. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1379607

 

Oh and be careful with the advice you get from a lfs, unless they specialize in reef keeping they might be more harm than good.

 

Good luck I hope things recover well.

[Hanser]

"Im getting my saltwater and RO from my LFS and they use Tropic Marin salt."

 

Are you having them mix the salt at the store? If so, is the salt clumpy when they mix it. If so it has been exposed to the air and water has gotten to the salt. This causes Ca to precipitate, and possibly other ions. I had a similair experience a few months back, I couldn't get Mg, Ca and KH to "acceptable" levels. I was dosing and had little success in getting levels up.

[spanko]

Starting point here in my mind would be to get your own test kits. I just don't trust the fish stores to do an accurate job.

[reefer916]

Definitely agree with everyone else. Do some water changes and stop dosing till you figure things out. The nitrite is probably caused by the die off. When dosing and raising any levels in needs to be slowly over a period of time. I'd definitely start mixing your own water. All you need is a powerhead, heater, bucket or trash can (new), some jugs to carry the RO water, and a bucket of salt. Reef Crystals seem to work really well for me, but there are several good salts out there.

 

I used to buy my salt water from the LFS's, but most use Instant Ocean and they usually mix it the day of. I always have 15-30 gallons constantly mixing in my 30 Brute Trash can. It aerates the water and since it's always running the water and salt is completely mixed without any cloudiness. Good luck... I hope it all works out

[timdanger]

i'm going to go ahead and disagree with some of what is being said here. now is not the time to ignore your problem by "stopping dosing" and "waiting 7 days" -- if you have an imbalance, you need to correct it, or your remaining livestock is going to suffer. this should not be difficult, but you need to identify the problem to start with. you need to figure out what your alk is testing at. if your Mg is low, especially so low that your Ca is 250, then our alk may be low too and allowing swings in pH (which is what is going to kill the corals). the point though, is that you can't develop a plan until you understand the problem. you've lost $600 worth of corals, yet you haven't even tested your alkalinity as far as i can see.

 

in any event, the nitrite is your immediate problem. you need to get that fixed ASAP, or it's going to kill more things. is anything dead/decomposing in your tank? fish, snail, etc? you need to figure that out. i'd definitely recommend running activated carbon (and replacing it with fresh carbon if you were already running it and haven't already done so), and then add some Seachem Prime to reduce the nitrites and soften the impact your re-cycle.

 

after that, the next thing i'd do is test the Ca/Alk/Mg of the water you're getting from the LFS to see where you're starting from. also, make sure the specific gravity is right (so that you know they added enough salt!).

 

if it checks out ok, i'd do a decent-sized water change, but not so much that it will uspet your corals (35%?).

 

next, if you read the back of your seachem reef advantage magnesium, you will see that it actually takes quite a bit of it to raise your magnesium. dosing 3tbsp/day in a 24gal tank is not going to raise your magnesium nearly fast enough to help you. randy at reef central has advised that you probably shouldn't raise your Mg by more than 100ppm per day, but with the amount you're dosing, you are nowhere near that. do the math based on the instructions on the back. the nonsense about it not being ionically balanced has nothing to do with this problem, and in addition to that (it's referring to the fact that Seachem uses only magnesium sulfate, without much if any magnesium chloride), no one can point to a clear and specific problem resulting from this ionic imbalance, especially with water changes.

 

also, as mentioned, you have to make sure you're not mixing your Mg, or dosing your Mg along with, your alk supplement. otherwise, you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

 

test your alk.

[franklypre]

DON"T DO ANYTHING, any changes and I mean any changes should be avoided. If you are changing this much water and still having problems stop. Let your tank balance. .3 nitrates will not kill ricordea ricordea grow in many different conditions and I assure you the problem lies elsewhere. I don't know how long this tank has been running but if it is well established than I would quit the store where the water is being purchased. Get an RO unit and know what you are putting in to your tank. You really need to KNOW exactly what you are adding. sounds like maybe an ALK problem. Something with the water, test the water you are changing with.

[SpringFever]

^ PFT... Cycle Nazi.

 

Hate to hear this Jerfrog. How is it going? Any recovery? Balancing out? Herd lots 'O' do this and do that, but what has happened in the last couple days? Good luck bro!

[timdanger]

.3 nitrates will not kill ricordea

 

this might be true -- however, he said nitRITE, and that will kill ricordea if you let it sit there.

 

 

 

any update?

[Jerfrog]

gonna get my water tested today. Will update later.

[Jerfrog]

alright so got my water tested today. Some improvements. Going to be dosing 3 tsps of mag everyday for the next week and a half. Im gonna continure to dose calcium everyday and alkalinity twice a week. That should get everything to the proper levels. Then ill be able to adjust to the recommended dosage.

 

Alk - 4.34 / 12.2DKH

Mg - 1155

Ca - 300

 

Mg and Ca are still a little low but they are improving. I did a 5g water change on thursday, will do another one on Tuesday. Cant wait to start stalking again, LFS has some SPS i have my eyes on

[amnestia]

Don't dose any alk or calcium. Just dose mag until you hit 1350-1400. You can do a straight large dose of up to 80ppm-100ppm without any harmful side-effects. Once it hits those levels then dose your Ca till it hits 420 and then do alk last. This should/can be completed within 3-4 days.

 

Test before dosing and a day after for true results.

 

Notes - dosing any Ca while mag is low is pointless, it will immediately precipitate out of the water. Also dose alk at least a few hours after/before dosing mag or Ca. Always correct only one thing at a time with one dosing supplement not multiple ones since they almost always conflict. Correct them in order of Mg-Ca-Alk.

 

For mag dosing I would use Brightwell Magnesion or Kent Mg, seachem mag is suppose to be a slow release and doesn't work half the time from what people tell me.

 

If you do it the right way, correcting water chemistry problems can be decently quick. It's def a whole lot better than letting your corals stew in toxic water for a week.

[mrbigshot]

my guess is coraline algea and your lps corals are using your calc and mag.

 

your salt isnt very high in magnesium to start out with but the calcium is ok. personaly i would mix your own with a salt better suited to your tanks needs. reef crystals, dd, and seachem all seem to test better. personaly i like reef crystals because its cheap works well.

 

Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt

Temperature - 26c

Salinity - 35ppt

pH (Salifert) - 8.40

pH (Pinpoint) - 8.20

Ammonia - 0ppm

Nitrite - 0ppm

Nitrate - 0ppm

Phosphate - 0ppm

Potassium - 320ppm

Strontium - 0 - 3ppm

Calcium - 400ppm

Magnesium - 1050ppm

Alkalinity - 7.7Dkh

[Jerfrog]

im almost out of my Seachem Mg and its only raised it about 200ppm.

 

I dont have nearly enough coraline for my params to be that low. Stocking nothing but zoa's, a 1" chalice, and a clam. Few rics but most are dying

[coolwaters]

iv noticed my Clams are keeping me CA in the low range... no matter how much i dose.

i feel like throw in half the bottle sometimes...

 

my coral line is really slow now. i need a better test kit...cuz im getting inconsistant data.

[Byrdman]

IMHO I would figure out how to maintain your levels before you ever attempted sps coral. I would use calcium chloride to raise your calcium. Baking soda to raise your alk and raise it slowly over a couple days span. When you use a product like two part esv they need to be done daily and in equal amounts. They way you described what you are going to do will never get you anywhere. Get your levels where you need them and pick a starting dose for your esv. Test after a week and see where ur levels are at. I they are higher back off your dosage. If they are lower get the levels back to where you need then increase your dose.

[SpringFever]

iv noticed my Clams are keeping me CA in the low range... no matter how much i dose.

i feel like throw in half the bottle sometimes...

 

my coral line is really slow now. i need a better test kit...cuz im getting inconsistant data.

 

Sorry to hi-jack, but it seems related:

 

Have you used this link to calculate exactly how much to add every day? What I did was take initial readings in the morning and 24hrs later I took the same readings. After that, I calculated the difference, or ammount consumed, and used the above link to set my daily dosage of each element.

 

Within reason, our systems should consume the same amount each day. Growth and some other factors will change the ammount consumed, but over time, not rite away.

[Jerfrog]