Is RO water necessary?

[StevieT]

Answer

[Jacobnano]

Other Answer?

 

Edit: Kidding, point is do a search before starting a thread.

[moto826]

i wish i would have stopped at thousand dollars on Coral lol

get at least a ro unit or buy water not worth the risk

[nemmy]

Hmm..

Yeah I v'e got friends that live in the middle of nowhere and they have well water. I was just wondering if it would work. Guess not. Thanks!

 

Run off from farmers fields from chemicals they spray etc. Anything could be in the ground thats leeching into your well water. RO/DI or Distilled all the way!

[ldballoon4]

RO is necessary. Pay me now or pay me later syndrome applies.

[Warehouse41Ant]

As another person stated, why bother with numerous test kits when you can just get an RO/DI system, have a healthy tank, and not have to worry? If you were set on using tap water, why bother with the question? We're all here to help, but if you're going to take everyone's advice and ignore it...what's the point? I haven't seen one person (including me, the guy who's started a tank w/ tap water and specifically advised against it) say, "yes, go with the tap water."

 

There's plenty of stuff on this all over the site. But I'll do my best to explain really quickly....You can't possibly test for all of the things that will come in your tap water. Try doing a search for your city/municipality's water report. Most are required to put them out once a year, many publish it on the internet. You're going to find the names of a lot of chemicals you don't want in your tank, including, but not limited to: nitrate, phosphate, arsenic, cyanide, iron, copper, etc, etc, etc. What you have to keep in mind is that even if these are very low quantities, they're a one-time sample. These values will jump around. Your tap water's trace elements will change from day to day due to many factors.

 

The other thing to keep in mind...Everything you're going to put in this tank is coming from the MOST STABLE environment in the world. If you're confident and comfortable taking the risk that your local government is keeping those same standards at the plant outside of town, then you have your answer. If not, Spectrapure makes a system for $149 that will solve this problem.

 

I know I'm being hypocritical here, but I've assumed the risk, and am currently putting money aside to get my RO/DI system so that I don't have to worry every time I'm filling the bucket from my sink, adding my chemical to remove hard metals, and subsequently dumping that into my tank. I figured I'd give it a shot. Guess what? I got exactly where everyone is saying one will get: in a constant battle with cyanobacteria (which I do NOT battle in my 55g freshwater tank in my living room, using the same water...in fact I have no algae problems with it, as I said earlier, this is a very different battle from freshwater. Your frontosa tank means nothing when relating to saltwater) and wishing I'd bought one from the start.

 

Cheers.

[Dani3d]

why? Because I want to make an educated decision as to if reef is for me or not.

 

I am not even sure at this point I will be doing this. I am still weighting the pluses and minuses of doing a nano reef.

 

And big time, I wanted to know if RO was absolutely necessary but it seem that there are conflicting answers here. Some say yes some say no it depends on the tap and some say they see people using tap with great success. So it seem it depend on the tap and why I want to test it.

 

It's good to test the tap water anyway so in case I would go with the project so I would know for sure what it's my water. Those tests are much cheaper than a RO unit and then with the RO there is all this wasted water.

 

I could buy the water so that's another alternative.

 

I am trying to locate the same portable RO unit that I was using before wich I paid 70$ us as I do not have a place to install a fixed RO unit with a tank but that's all I can see for now.

 

My budget is also very limited for the moment since I lost my job and 150$ is too expensive for now. Buying a RO unit at this price meant all my budget would go on that and no budget for live rock. Actualy I wanted to see if this can be done on a tight budget as well.

 

I know coral is expensive but that's something that I could buy here and there, once at the time and that way it could be manageable. Same with live rocks, I am waiting for a good deal on that. I unfortunatly cannot afford something as expensive as 150$ in one shot.

 

Same thing with a protein skimmer...I could not afford a 150$ one but I could afford a 40$ one like the Taam Rio.

 

So I got from all this that RO water is the best way to go, and if I can find that same unit I had I may buy it and wait for a better price in live rock. I will also check my Walmart to see if they even carry distilled or RO water since I have not seen anything here beside source water and that's hard as a rock water usualy.

 

If this end up costing too much and not realistic to my budget, then I might forget the whole idea, but I definitly want to know what is in my water and especialy if there is a lot of copper in my water.

 

All these answers were very valuable and helpfull to help me decide. I also have to sink in all this information and take some time to decide wether or not I want a nano reef enough to go through the RO saga and rumba again.

 

 

 

 

 

As another person stated, why bother with numerous test kits when you can just get an RO/DI system, have a healthy tank, and not have to worry? If you were set on using tap water, why bother with the question? We're all here to help, but if you're going to take everyone's advice and ignore it...what's the point? I haven't seen one person (including me, the guy who's started a tank w/ tap water and specifically advised against it) say, "yes, go with the tap water."

 

There's plenty of stuff on this all over the site. But I'll do my best to explain really quickly....You can't possibly test for all of the things that will come in your tap water. Try doing a search for your city/municipality's water report. Most are required to put them out once a year, many publish it on the internet. You're going to find the names of a lot of chemicals you don't want in your tank, including, but not limited to: nitrate, phosphate, arsenic, cyanide, iron, copper, etc, etc, etc. What you have to keep in mind is that even if these are very low quantities, they're a one-time sample. These values will jump around. Your tap water's trace elements will change from day to day due to many factors.

 

The other thing to keep in mind...Everything you're going to put in this tank is coming from the MOST STABLE environment in the world. If you're confident and comfortable taking the risk that your local government is keeping those same standards at the plant outside of town, then you have your answer. If not, Spectrapure makes a system for $149 that will solve this problem.

 

I know I'm being hypocritical here, but I've assumed the risk, and am currently putting money aside to get my RO/DI system so that I don't have to worry every time I'm filling the bucket from my sink, adding my chemical to remove hard metals, and subsequently dumping that into my tank. I figured I'd give it a shot. Guess what? I got exactly where everyone is saying one will get: in a constant battle with cyanobacteria (which I do NOT battle in my 55g freshwater tank in my living room, using the same water...in fact I have no algae problems with it, as I said earlier, this is a very different battle from freshwater. Your frontosa tank means nothing when relating to saltwater) and wishing I'd bought one from the start.

 

Cheers.

[violinist]

My budget is also very limited for the moment since I lost my job and 150$ is too expensive for now.

 

Not kicking you while you are down, but you just answered your question of whether or not a reef is for you.

[CSoli921]

Not kicking you while you are down, but you just answered your question of whether or not a reef is for you.

 

+1

 

Have you researched the price of lighting alone?

[vresor]

+1.

 

If you aren't already out though and still weighing the virtues of RO water, add up the cost of the test kits and reagent refills and weigh them against the cost of buying the water or the RO system. $1.82 for RO water at Walmart sounds like a good deal.

[Dani3d]

I already a light fixture, which is 2 x 55 watts power compact: 10,000K White Daylight Bulbs and Actinic Bulbs

 

So that is settled I hope, as this would be around 6 or 7 watts per gallon. I have a 20 gallon aquarium that I removed the top rim to make it rimless on top.

 

all I would be missing is the RO portable if I can find one and a protein skimmer. I have a canister filter and a good heater.

 

I could also buy the water to start. The most expensive part is the live rock but I could probably find some for much cheaper looking at local ads or I could start with smal pieces to begin.

 

The thing is that I am in no rush to start big. I am willing to start with just a few live rocks and wait a month or 2 or even more if needed.

 

I do have employment insurance so I do have some income, not just as much as before.

 

 

 

+1

 

Have you researched the price of lighting alone?

 

I will check out wallmart and if they do have RO water here I will go that route. With a protein skimmer I could do water change of about 15% to 20% biweekly so that would not be much to buy 3 to 4 gallons every 2 weeks.

 

1.82$ is for what amount of water?

 

I am sure a reef is NOT for me as the budget is limited, however a nano reef is probably in my budget if I am willing to wait and get what I want with patience and waiting for good deals.

 

I would never consider a full reef tank but a nano is much cheaper and one can make it with loads of coral or just a few so it can very much be adjusted to a small budget. No need for a very expensive skimmer either like on large tank, no need for a sump. It's not that my budget is limited to 150$ in total, it's just that I cannot spend 150$ in one shot on one item. but no need to because there are RO units for half that price or I could buy water.

 

 

 

+1.

 

If you aren't already out though and still weighing the virtues of RO water, add up the cost of the test kits and reagent refills and weigh them against the cost of buying the water or the RO system. $1.82 for RO water at Walmart sounds like a good deal.

[CSoli921]

You might want to check out the mighty mite from www.airwaterice.com its great... several people on here use it as well

[AZDesertRat]

There are those who do not use RO or RO/DI but it is very rare and not many are successful long term. Tap water and especially well water contains things that are not found in large amounts in new saltwater and may cause problems long term since many are cumulative, meaning water changes and additives do not remove or reduce them.

A RO/DI is cheap insurance. I am a water treatment plant supervisor by profession and have been for over 30 years, its basically all I have even done. Will I drink the water from my plants or have my grandchildren drink it? Absolutely without any reservations. Will I put it in my reef syatems? Not on your life. Treated water changes day to day or hour to hour. It depends on the sources and blends, treatment techniques, operator on shift, whethere there is a strom in the area or not etc. Too many variables that a simple well maintained RO/DI takes completely out of the equation. I get the same consistent water each and every time I make it and I alone control its quality.

[callmesaul8889]

1.82$ is for what amount of water?

 

5 gallon refills. if you dont have a jug when you walk in, they charge you 12 bucks. but i've never paid that, everytime i go in i just grab another jug and say they're all refills

[TheUnfocusedOne]

It really depends on where you get your tap water. I use rodi but can get away with using tapwater if I wanted to. I know at least two lfs that uses tap water in my area. Soft coral and lps corals can thrive in tap water. I wouldn't recommend tap on sps corals.

 

Agreed to some extent. Some areas have very good water quality, and are capable of sustaining aquatic animals. There is an inherent risk in this though, as fluctuations in the water quality can occur. I've heard a horror stories of TDS levels in tap water spiking to dangerously high levels for a day, which cause lots of death to in people's tanks. Its really a gamble, RO is really just a safe bet, your putting your tanks health in the hands of other as apposed to your own, and i bet not all of the workers at your water treatment plant are fish friends.

 

 

If you use RO water, why do you have algea problem still? Why do people using RO water still have this issue?

 

 

I am

 

Phosphates and nitrates have many sources, it from the break down of biological macromolecules mostly. Animals produce nitrates and phosphate, as does excess food ect, all of which cause nuisance algae growth.

 

Answer

 

Nicely put steve

 

I already a light fixture, which is 2 x 55 watts power compact: 10,000K White Daylight Bulbs and Actinic Bulbs

 

So that is settled I hope, as this would be around 6 or 7 watts per gallon. I have a 20 gallon aquarium that I removed the top rim to make it rimless on top.

 

all I would be missing is the RO portable if I can find one and a protein skimmer. I have a canister filter and a good heater.

 

Hate you be the bearer of bad news, but the wpg method doesnt work in reefing. PC will probably allow you to maybe keep some softies like zoas and leathers, but the zoas will more than likely not be a vibrant as others. Your more than likely going to need better lighting if you want to really keep a nice reef.

 

Also, canister filters aren't generally used in reef tanks since they have a tendency to trap detritus and cause increases in phosphates and nitrates. That generally why you see most people going with a sump/fuge method with some sort of macro algae as a nutrient exporter on this website. I'm not saying you can't use it, I just feel as though your going to have issues if you do.

 

Just trying to help

[AZDesertRat]

RO by itself, or actually RO preceded by a particulate or sediment filter and a carbon block, both of which protect the membrane, gets you 90 to 98% pure. It is the final DI stage that gets you to what can ultimately be 18.2 megaohm resistivity or about as pure as it is possible to get, down to the atomic level in fact.

 

RO or RO/DI is not dangerous and it does not pull salts out of your cells, you would drown internally from having to drink huge volumes of DI water before this would be possible. This is a common misconception. RO/DI is termed agressive though meaning it is always seeking ways to get back to its natural "dirty" state, attracting minerals and CO2 to get back to more natural stable tap water.

 

Anyone can "get away" with using tap water but thats not being a responsible reef aquarist. We strive to keep our inhabitants alive and thriving so tap water is not a safe call.

[TheUnfocusedOne]

RO by itself, or actually RO preceded by a particulate or sediment filter and a carbon block, both of which protect the membrane, gets you 90 to 98% pure. It is the final DI stage that gets you to what can ultimately be 18.2 megaohm resistivity or about as pure as it is possible to get, down to the atomic level in fact.

 

RO or RO/DI is not dangerous and it does not pull salts out of your cells, you would drown internally from having to drink huge volumes of DI water before this would be possible. This is a common misconception. RO/DI is termed agressive though meaning it is always seeking ways to get back to its natural "dirty" state, attracting minerals and CO2 to get back to more natural stable tap water.

 

Anyone can "get away" with using tap water but thats not being a responsible reef aquarist. We strive to keep our inhabitants alive and thriving so tap water is not a safe call.

 

 

i ment higher purity waters such as nanopure or higher. DI/RO is not at all dangerous.

 

I may retract that temporarily until I find a source. I've hear this from multiple PhD chemist so unless they themselves were mistaken and I find a source saying other wise, I'm going to believe them. I'll keep searching for a source.

[AZDesertRat]

RO/DI is much more pure than nanopure water, about 100 times purer since RO by itself is 10x more pure than nano pure. A nanofilter is rated at 90% rejection, a RI is 98% rejection even before DI.

 

Numerous studies have tried to show RO/DI to be harmful but the studies are all inconclusive since a human cannot survive long term on RO/DI alone and even one potato chip kills the study. We receive such a miniscule amout of minerals in our water its a non issue, we get more from the crud in breathing air than we get from drinking water.

[TheUnfocusedOne]

RO/DI is much more pure than nanopure water, about 100 times purer since RO by itself is 10x more pure than nano pure. A nanofilter is rated at 90% rejection, a RI is 98% rejection even before DI.

 

Numerous studies have tried to show RO/DI to be harmful but the studies are all inconclusive since a human cannot survive long term on RO/DI alone and even one potato chip kills the study. We receive such a miniscule amout of minerals in our water its a non issue, we get more from the crud in breathing air than we get from drinking water.

 

 

Seems as though I'm mistaken, I will remove that section from my post.

[Dani3d]

I always use Tap water aged for my frontosa and for my discus I used a mix of tap and RO and never had a problem. I always test the TDS of my tap water before using it as well.

 

For the nano reef since it,s so small I will be checking Walmart to see if they sell RO water here. I am in Quebec, Canada, so the Walmart here does not have the same level of service as in the USA. I never seen RO water sold around here, but I will check.

 

I also have read about the filter and will probably not use it as I do not want a place for the organics to get trapped and create nitrates.

 

As for the lighting, I get very conflicting and confusing responses here. Some say it will work well for SPS and soft coral and you're saying it will not work so this is confusing. I will have to see with time if it work or not.

 

Here is a quote from an article at Nano-reef.com and why I choose PC light:

 

"Powercompact lamps are arguably the best light source when it comes to nano reefs. Although they are very small, they pack a lot of power. These are superior to other fluorescent lamps because they come in short lengths that can easily fit across small aquariums."

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/?article=13

 

 

Hate you be the bearer of bad news, but the wpg method doesnt work in reefing. PC will probably allow you to maybe keep some softies like zoas and leathers, but the zoas will more than likely not be a vibrant as others. Your more than likely going to need better lighting if you want to really keep a nice reef.

 

Also, canister filters aren't generally used in reef tanks since they have a tendency to trap detritus and cause increases in phosphates and nitrates. That generally why you see most people going with a sump/fuge method with some sort of macro algae as a nutrient exporter on this website. I'm not saying you can't use it, I just feel as though your going to have issues if you do.

 

Just trying to help

[Dani3d]

I am not sure what that's has to do with aquarium and reef?? but anyway the only time I read that water can kill someone is in extreme sport where runners have to run in very hot extreme temperature and swet a lot.. then if they drink water without adding the lost mineral they can be poisoned by the water.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

 

In any case, that has nothing to do with the aquarium though. NO fish can live in pure water alone, not even discus.

 

RO/DI is much more pure than nanopure water, about 100 times purer since RO by itself is 10x more pure than nano pure. A nanofilter is rated at 90% rejection, a RI is 98% rejection even before DI.

 

Numerous studies have tried to show RO/DI to be harmful but the studies are all inconclusive since a human cannot survive long term on RO/DI alone and even one potato chip kills the study. We receive such a miniscule amout of minerals in our water its a non issue, we get more from the crud in breathing air than we get from drinking water.

[TheUnfocusedOne]

\

Here is a quote from an article at Nano-reef.com and why I choose PC light:

 

"Powercompact lamps are arguably the best light source when it comes to nano reefs. Although they are very small, they pack a lot of power. These are superior to other fluorescent lamps because they come in short lengths that can easily fit across small aquariums."

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/?article=13

 

I think the only reason that pc is better is because their short. That article is dated imo, you can get HO lighting for smaller tanks now, and with individual reflectors it can be just as powerful as mh. Ive kept coral under pc and mh, and there is a big difference.

[TheUnfocusedOne]

RO/DI is much more pure than nanopure water, about 100 times purer since RO by itself is 10x more pure than nano pure. A nanofilter is rated at 90% rejection, a RI is 98% rejection even before DI.

 

Numerous studies have tried to show RO/DI to be harmful but the studies are all inconclusive since a human cannot survive long term on RO/DI alone and even one potato chip kills the study. We receive such a miniscule amout of minerals in our water its a non issue, we get more from the crud in breathing air than we get from drinking water.

 

 

Turns out were both wrong to some extent

 

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health...mineralized.pdf

[AZDesertRat]

The World Health Organization has tried to do a viable study of demineralized water for 40 years but none has been conclusive sine as I pointed out earlier, a human cannot exist on water alone and even one potato chip throws the study off. For every report they have published there are dozens more in publications like the New England Journal of Medicine and many many Universities that counter or negate their findings.

 

Yes, if a human were able to survive on water alone DI may not be the best choice but its not possible. The small amount we may ingest and the even smaller amount of minerals we receive from all water is not worth all the time and effort that goes into the studies.

[Dani3d]

I called Walmart and they sell deminiralized water for 2$ per gallon, so it's a no go because it would cost me 40$ plus taxes so that would be around 46$.

 

I guess I have no choice but to start it with tap water since I cannot find for sale the portable unit as well and a fixed RO system is out of the question.

 

I will try to find one as I go with this but for now I have a great deal on Totoka live rock and that deal ends friday. I guess I will have to start it with tap water (my tap does not have nitrates or phosphates and it's soft) for the live rocks and as I get an RO unit I will be able to do regular water change and that will remove any trace amount of what ever was in my tap water.

 

How does that sound?

 

it's just so freaking expensive to buy water here. Sometime I wish I would still be living in California, it was so cheap to live there!