what next?????

[T11mog]

Hey LS and LR is in! (wahoo!) what should be next...corals or cleaning crew????? thnx 4 the info...adn what would you reccomend for a 10 gal. for a clean up crew? thnx

[Coral Dilema]

Next you need to do water tests . . PH, alk, ammonia, nitrite . . you should see the ammonia spike in a few days, then the nitrites will spike . . after the ammonia and nitrites crash to 0 or near, start doing nitrate tests . . if you have high nitrates do water changes to bring them under control. Once the ammonia/nitrites have crashed you can add the cleanup crew . . many people make the mistake of putting in too few cleanup critters . . . its kind of hard to say how many you should have based on the gallons of water in your tank . . its more like how much surface area you have between the rocks and glass. I generally go with 1.5 snails per gallon of water and 1 hermit crab per gallon of water . . this usually gives a pretty sizable crew. So, for a 10 gallon tank you should have about 15 snails and 10 hermits. The rule of thumb is if you can look in your tank and count them, you dont have enough.

 

Once the cleanup crew is in you should notice a dinofladulate (not dino-flatulence) bloom (brown filmy disks of algae) the snails will clean this up pretty good. I usually wait till after the dinos are under control to start adding corals/polyps.

 

Best advice I can give you is to keep checking here for advice, keep asking questions as you have them, and above all, BE PATIENT . . only bad things happen quickly in a reef tank.

[Coral Dilema]

Oh, in case it wasnt clear in the previous post, dont put in the cleanup crew until after your ammonia/nitrites have crashed, they will just die if you do and cause an even bigger spike in ammonia/nitrites as they decay. and they ALWAYS die in an area where you cant get to them to remove them.

 

And try to get as many extra empty snail shells as you can, the hermits will go looking for new homes as they grow, if they cant find them they will evict your snails from their shells.

[birdman204]

Is that spelled phoenetically?

[T11mog]

lol i forgot tyo state that my LR cycle is over and i got teh bagged LS that doesnt need cycling...lol sry

[birdman204]

LOL, I meant dino fladulate, i think it's flagellate

[Acoustic]

Coral Dilema-

 

First of all.........Hi......We have not met yet. I am Acoustic. Nice to meet you. With that being said, I am going to have to disagree with you about the cleanup crew. One thing I have learned from experience is that a cleanup crew is not the way it sounds. Nutrients are still nutrients. If you have nutrients in algae then the hermies or snails eat the algae. They then turn it into poop that still contains the nutrients. This poop then feed the algae and you will have a never ending cyano/diatom bloom. I think the important thing here is that nutrient EXPORT is the most important. Cleanup crews just change it's status.

 

SOOOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOO................I would suggest the following:

 

Let the algae and cyano go crazy. Get just a few snails. Believe it or not the algae will go away on it's own as long as you are:

(IMPORTANT PART)

Exporting the nutrients via skimmer, water changes, or macro algae.

 

I feel that understanding this will prevent the ill-fated tank crash later on in life when you love your reef tank. WHY? because you are preventing oversaturation of nutrients and waste.

 

Thank you. Feel free to disagree. I am always willing to learn more.

[darwin604]

I agree with Acoustic. I'm fairly new to the hobby and my 'cleanup crew' had done nothing to improve my water quality. My glass looks cleaner and my sand looks a bit nicer but thats about it. From my experience usings RO/DI water is the best thing you can possibly do to improve stuff. I started using distilled water a couple months ago (RO is harder to find in my area) and algae has diminished, nitrates are at zero, corals are thriving . . I've had my hermit crabs / snails the whole time and they didnt make much difference.

 

BTW, a snails per gallon number isnt really too helpful. Snails come in all shapes and sizes. I have 4 bumblebee snails and they do NOTHING when it comes to cleaning up algae. I have 2 turbo snails (in my 10 gal tank) and they help keep the glass clean . . although theres no substitute for an algae scrubber and religious water changes. BTW, I learned all this the hard way - I had a massive red slime problem for ages and the only thing that fixed it was using good water since I dont have a skimmer and I dont have a 'fuge (yet).

 

d.

[Dingo]

I must disagree slightly. Many macros and some hair algae will grow even in pristine water. Herbivory is necessary to keep your tank from looking like your 'fuge. I do agree that after the crew clears out the green, that you need to export the nutrients. Nothing gets rid of the need to clean your substrate and do your water changes.

 

My take on cleanup crew is to add them slowly until you find the right combo to keep your tank looking clean.

[Acoustic]

A tank is not healthy by merely looking good. It is important to have snails to eat the algae and convert it into poop that dissolves the nutrients in the sand and water. So...........

 

Like I just stated before:

 

(IMPORTANT PART)

Exporting the nutrients via skimmer, water changes, or macro algae.

[Dingo]

I never said not to export nutrients. I do believe strongly, however, that if your tank looks ugly, you will give up and throw it away. Some very prominent members of this board have done so (witness Crakeur among many others). Therefore, it is at least as important make things look good as anything else.

[T11mog]

thnx for the Info

[Acoustic]

Well, you can make your tank look great and I will make mine last forever.

[Coral Dilema]

The question was asked, "What next". As I didnt have time to go into detail about the ongoing upkeep of the tank, I didnt get in to skimmers and macros for nutrient export. Yes, I agree that you cant expect the snails to be the end of your filtering, but they do play an important role in breaking down the algaes. Snail and hermit droppings become food for other organisms, not the least of which are 'pods'.

 

Bottom line, since man first started keeping salt water creatures in captivity, there has been an ongoing debate about how to filter the water and make the captive environment as close to natural as possible. This can do nothing but good, the more we debate this issue the more we will discover which methods work, and which are meant to take your money.

[T11mog]

i bought 3 asria snails @ 1.50 (LFS was havin a sale :-D) 2 nasilus snails, 3 hermits and thats it..i tihnk that its a pretty good clean up crew

[SeaMountain]

"Herbivory"?

 

I'm going to have to :::choke::: :::choke::: agree with the esteemed nature photographer 'koos on this one. No one can create, or destroy matter. It exist in one form or another.

 

Nutrients are the same way. They exist, but are transformed into another state depending upon what part of the process they are in.

 

Example: Ribeye steak. Asparagus. Baked potato. Course salt and fresh cracked pepper. Assorted herbs and seasonings. All raw and in their natural state.

 

Along comes Sea and masterfully creates a sumptuous dinner. It no longer resembles it's natural state though.

 

Through the esophagus and into the digestive tract it goes. Until tomorrow morning it is 'Exported'.

 

And if you attempt to hold it in, no matter what form it takes, you will become sick.

 

Tanks are the same way. Unless something is exported via water changes, skimmers, or some other technique, a tank cannot hold onto everything which enters it.

 

Which is why my tank is rebounding from a horrendous crash which I believe I have caught in time. Twice daily 1g WC's and a ton of carbon.

[caja]

Nice analogy there Sea.

[SeaMountain]

Thank you... Thank you... Just send frags please....

[Crakeur]

so my tank is a big toilet. makes perfect sense.

 

to clarify my "throwing away a tank" I ditched the 7 gallon when the bryopsis issue became far too much to handle. Bryopsis is unlike most other algaes. It is very hard to contain or control. once it's growing and rooted into the rocks, it becomes extremely difficult to remove, without removing the rock all together.

 

I upgraded to a non-nano 26 gallon tank and I shouldn't even be here.