scubasteve2580 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 i have a 10 gallon mixed reef with 10 different sps, 6 different lps, and a wide assortment of zoas and other softies.. ive noticed my coral not looking their best for the past few weeks. well today i tested calcium, alk, and ph and they are all out of whack. alk 7.5, calcium 280, ph 8.4+. i dose kalkwasser on a regular basis. is there a big difference between doising with vinegar and dosing without?? any idea of how this could have happened?? i havent seen snow in the tank but every time i dose kalkwasser, nothing happens.. no calcium+ or alkalinity+. i havent checked the magnesium and im not real sure but wouldnt the levels still rise before they fell even if magnesium were low??? can i fix this using kalkwasser? iplease help i dont want my tank to crash.. p.s. the tank is 6 months old if that helps anyone. Link to comment
disaster999 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 maybe start dosing 2 part and see if that changes anything Link to comment
MitchReef Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 very low magnesium will make it VERY difficult to get the Alk and Ca to play nicely..... I also believe in 2-part..... Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 what kind of affect will it have on the ph? also, this problem started a week ago when i moved my tank from room to room and did away with my air driven counter current skimmer.. is it at all possible that air stone or "lack there of" rather have something to with this. up until a week ago seemed like params were fine.. then again i could be wrong and just didnt knwo it. also whats a good 2 part?? bionc? Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 also would low mag and calcium be a good reason for my corals looking sad? sps and lps? Link to comment
Mr. Fosi Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 also whats a good 2 part?? bionc? That's a good one. Bulk Reef Supply sells a nice two-part kit as well. IME, low Ca and Mg don't affect how SPS and LPS look. It is alk that really dictates how healthy they look. If I were you, I would quit using the kalk for now. Kalk is a "balanced" Ca/Alk additive and your Ca/Alk are way out of whack... This is something kalk can't fix. As others have said, get yourself a 2-part Ca/Alk system and make sure you keep your Mg up around 1350 ppm. Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 That's a good one. Bulk Reef Supply sells a nice two-part kit as well. IME, low Ca and Mg don't affect how SPS and LPS look. It is alk that really dictates how healthy they look. If I were you, I would quit using the kalk for now. Kalk is a "balanced" Ca/Alk additive and your Ca/Alk are way out of whack... This is something kalk can't fix. As others have said, get yourself a 2-part Ca/Alk system and make sure you keep your Mg up around 1350 ppm. magnesium right now is 1260 Link to comment
MikeTR Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 get recipe #1 from bulkreefsupply.. the starter kit comes with mag, calc, and alk. you'll want to raise your calcium by 50 per day. Your alk by 1 per day till it hits 9-10, but first you'll need to raise your mag up to 1350.. but I'm not sure how slow you need to do it.. someone else can post that. Link to comment
Mr. Fosi Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 magnesium right now is 1260 Well, that's enough that you will be able to get your Ca/Alk back in bounds easily with a 2-part solution. If it were <1100 ppm I'd say bring it up. Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 i still cant understand why everything looks so sad.. i mean seiously, my duncans havent come out all the way in a month. also a green fuzzy mushroom that has sorta started turning brownish. Link to comment
Mr. Fosi Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I don't want it to seem like it's the miracle parameter, but if your alk is off, your corals will be off. Even your softies can be affected because the pH isn't stable at low alks. Get your alk up above 8 dKH (shoot for 9-10 dKH) and keep it there. You can bring your alk up now by using baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) or baked baking soda (sodium carbonate). Make up the alkalinity part (either recipe #1 or #2) found here. Once you have it made up, use a good aquarium chemistry calculator to help you get the doage right. Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 I don't want it to seem like it's the miracle parameter, but if your alk is off, your corals will be off. Even your softies can be affected because the pH isn't stable at low alks. Get your alk up above 8 dKH (shoot for 9-10 dKH) and keep it there. You can bring your alk up now by using baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) or baked baking soda (sodium carbonate). Make up the alkalinity part (either recipe #1 or #2) found here. Once you have it made up, use a good aquarium chemistry calculator to help you get the doage right. i believe you 100%.. my alk is somewhere right around 8 right now though. Link to comment
Mr. Fosi Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Have you been able to keep it up there and stable or is it there only after having dosed it up? You said in the OP that it was 7.5 dKH. Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 ok i picked up some kent liquid calcium today and started dosing.. ran into another problem when i tested parameters. nitrate and nitrite were undetectable but ammonia was around .75 i had a small clownfish die awhile back and couldnt find it anywhere so i figured the crabs took quick care of it.. ok soooo... i did a water change of 30% 4 days ago so the ammonia is either dropping or rising very slowly because its still kinda low. i was thinking about checking it tomorrow and seeing if its going down or up before i make any quick actions. what do you think? Link to comment
Mr. Fosi Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I would say that the NH3 is a major contributing factor with regard to your coral issues. I'd dose your Ca/Alk regardless of the NH3 results. Keep an eye on the NH3 but don't let it stop your plan. Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 well the nh3 is a recent problem.. fish dies a week ago+.. the problem ive been having has been going on for longer than that. as a matter of fact today is the first time ive seen one of duncans polyps all the way open in a month. Link to comment
Mr. Fosi Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 More proof that you should stick to your plan? Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 More proof that you should stick to your plan? i mixed up some alk using uncooked baking soda.. i want my ph back to 8.3. i dosed .5ml of liquid calcium (which should be somwhere around 50 ppm) 3 hours ago and started an alk drip consisting of 5.7ml of alk buffer consentrate topped to a pint with R.O. water. this is enough to raise the alk .5 as well as slightly lower the ph. now what about the ammonia?? i guess if its increasing ill do water changes for the next few weeks to keep it low atleast until the system catches up. if its decreasing ill let it go and this weekend ill do a good water change to relieve the system of some of the toxins from organic decay.. sound like a good plan? Link to comment
Mr. Fosi Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Sounds fine. Before you do your waterchange, be sure to check the Alk/Ca of your change water and amend it if you need to. Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 ok well the ammonia started dropping and today at lunch it was around .25. calcium was 340 alk 8 and ph 8.2.. i already got the temp thing straight.. once i get the parameters stable and beat the cyano, again( from the ammonia of course) ill start looking for another fish.. the scroll coral came out of it. the RTN stopped although it took out the green cap before it did. i was glad to see the scroll survive. the unstable parameters did however do other damage. the hydnophora has some black on the underneath side as well as my orange digitata having the same issue. my blue oregon tort acro is doing great through all this and i see some new little white nubs on my ponope birdnest.. i heard those things grow fast. ive only had it for 3 weeks. my green b-nest is doing good as well.. of course the duncans stay pissed but that's just "my" duncans, and for the record they have put out two new heads through all this so ... all else is well. ok im gonna give carbon a go.. i have the feeling ive mixed and matched to the point of allelopathy. so im gonna try running some good high end carbon for a few days and see what happens.. if everything improvesill know its chemical warfare and ill have to start the process of nailing the culprit down. i did a 25% water change today. the params of the makeup water were cal 400 alk 9 ph 8.3. good numbers, not to far off and i could use the adjustment without dumping chemicals so i slowly added that. everything did fine through the water change other than little slime from my duncans who do it every time i do a water change.. why is that mine are so attitudish?.. for some reason i cant find the median with them.. its got to be allelpathy if its not parameters.. Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 update: ammonia finally hit 0, calcium 410, alkalinity 8. no surprise that everything is looking alot better.. Link to comment
Mr. Fosi Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Glad things are looking up. You may want to consider going to 9 dKH alk. Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 Glad things are looking up. You may want to consider going to 9 dKH alk. trust me im trying. but you know every time i add calcium my alk drops.. im dosing alkalinity too. ive dosed alk twice and calcium 3 times.. ive brought my calcium up 130 ppm and have only been dosing enough alk to bring it up .5 each time so its slow inching up to 9.. whenever i have an alk swing everything looks horrible.so im working at it cautiously. i went and got some high end carbon tonight so we will see what happens. maybe it will get some of the toxins that some corals may be producing and ill see what i have then. i know my duncans look rough but i noticed 3 more new heads today.. so thats a total of 5 new ones in a matter of weeks. even with all the parameter swings. Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 added another clown and red scooter to the tank today. Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 added another clown and red scooter to the tank today. This may not have been the best time to do that. You may see a mini cycle, or increase in Ammonia, Nitrite, etc. for a few days as a result. I would strongly suggest getting all parameters looking really stable for at least 2 weeks before trying to add anything else. Link to comment
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