TimDanger's CADlights 39g Pro

[rizakaniza]

+1 when you get fish they will eat the pods....maybe you should throw in a mandarin goby

[timdanger]

+1 when you get fish they will eat the pods....maybe you should throw in a mandarin goby

 

+5 TANGS (so they can school)

[timdanger]

Its a bristleworm

 

well, i kind of thought bristleworm, too -- but it doesn't seem to have the "bristles" that I've seen on other bristleworms. it really seemed more cylindrical. it was definitely segmented.

 

maybe some bristleworms are more bristley than others?

[rizakaniza]

+5 TANGS (so they can school)

I threw in 8 tangs yesterday! I hear they do great in the middle of cycles!

[timdanger]

took a few measurements last night...

 

specific gravity = 1.024

nitrate = 0/undetectable

calcium = 375ppm

alkalinity = 8.5dKh

 

being concerned about the fact that i've been unable to get my calcium level up into the 420-450 range that i'm looking for (despite some heavy/daily dosing of Brightwell Reef Code A and the fact that my calcium consumption in the tank should still be pretty low with no corals/limited inverts!), i decided that i should re-read the bottle on the Reef Code A to see what was going on.

 

Turns out, you have to shake this bottle up (also turns out, "reading is fundamental"). So, after some vigorous shaking, i dosed. the liquid was now CLOUDY WHITE (instead of relatively clear, as it had been). Uh, I guess I should've been doing this the whole time. now i guess i've got super concentrated Reef Code A. Oh well, at least I know now.

 

This morning, I started the multistage migration from my 8g biocube (now very neglected since i've been spending all my time with the Cad). I grabbed 3 snails and a red-legged hermit crab, acclimated, rinsed them in a cup of new-tank-water (trying to avoid as much "cross-contamination" as possible between the old tank and the new tank), and threw 'em in. 2 of the snails and the hermit is fine, but i'm watching the other snail in the fuge (he wasn't doing well to begin with, so i'm hoping moving him over to the new tank will help).

 

i'm going to once again say how awesome the LR I got from Reef Chief in Virginia Beach is. Not that I've been to LFSs all over the world, but I have been to my fair share -- these rocks have some of the most interesting/colorful coralline algae i've seen. the turquoise/blues/reds/oranges/purples are crazy to see, and i'm just really enjoying them.

[timdanger]

Tested my Mg -- 1250ppm

 

Anyway, fellow Cad Pro owners out there -- i have two possibly-related problems:

1) microbubbles

2) inconsistent skimmer production

 

first, how is everyone dealing with microbubbles? I'm having serious issues with them. I've tried several different approaches, and none of them seem very effective. I worked on this for about an hour last night, but nothing I changed/did differently seemed to make much of a difference.

 

I am suspicious that MOST of the bubbles seem to be coming from my drain pipe (which has been cut to a length that is perhaps too short?), not from the skimmer. I can always attach a little PVC extension to the hose to help lengthen it, i guess.

 

as can be seen in prior pictures of the "drain chamber," i started off with bioballs with pads. not great, not bad as far as microbubbles went. see old picture here:

 

i then switched to about 4" of LR rubble as a base, with 4 filtration pads on top of the rubble. This was functional, but it wasn't working that well. see old picture here:

 

so, i added about 4" more LR rubble (depth is now about 8"). This LR is fairly densely-packed (which could be a contributing problem?). On top of the LR, I have tried using 0, 1, 2, 3 and even 4 layers of pads (i'm using the ones that shipped with the tank from cad). Even running through 4 pads, the bubbles are pretty consistently making it through both the LR and both sets of baffles, and thus into the return pump and back into the tank. [will add picture of current setup this afternoon]

 

in addition to that, even when i get it to a level of water/bubbles that I consider an "ok stopping point until i come back and work on it tomorrow," the water level in the drain chamber gradually rises (over the course of hours, not minutes -- to the point where it ends up overflowing into the skimmer chamber, resulting in the skimmer's drain pipe being submerged.

 

something i've noticed is that the drain hose coming from the tank seems to end up with water "splashing" back up inside of it instead of draining straight out of it. would it maybe make sense to take out some of the LR rubble from the drain chamber (can anyone think of a problem with moving it into the return pump chamber?), extend the hose with some PVC, and see if that helps?

 

on to the skimmer: the water level in the drain chamber has been consistently higher than the level in every other chamber of the sump. this made me concerned that maybe the water level in the skimmer chamber was preventing bubbles from getting "up and over" into the collection cup, which has been an ongoing issue. Sometimes the bubbles in the skimmer will reach the top of the cup, sometimes they barely get into the cup at all -- i am losing about 2L of water per day now, topping off at about 10pm every night -- but, despite my religious top-off efforts, I am wondering if the variation in the water level may have something to do with the inconsistent production. the other thing is, i've never had a skimmer before, so i'm not sure what is "normal" -- i was definitely expecting more consistent production than i've gotten, though.

 

my tank has been running for several weeks, skimmer running 24/7 with the valve wide open, and i've yet to collect any substantial skimmate. in fact, the only time i've collected much of anything at all was when i added the extra 2" of LR to my drain chamber. and, even then, i only got a bout 1/4" to 1/2" of skimmate in the cup.

 

MUCH AFTER THE FACT EDIT: again, this turns out to just be a result of the skimmer pump motor going bad.

[mkregs]

Tim,

Yes...the CADLights sump is a challenge. If I had it to do all over again, I would have tried to get someone to sell me the tank without the sump and I would have built my own sump.

 

This is a cut and paste from some comments I made on another forum:

"IMO the sump should have been built to fill the entire footprint of the stand base. It is pretty close to doing that side-to-side, but it could have been built a little deeper to add more interior volume. I would have designed the split 1st chamber differently as well to ensure that the water level in the skimmer chamber is always consistent. Also, it would have been nice to have a 3rd baffle between the fuge and pump chambers to help make it a more effective bubble trap."

 

What has worked for me so far is to run the drain into a 4" filter sock. The sock has done a nice job controlling bubbles, but they need to be cleaned frequently. For you, the more you restrict the water flow in the drain chamber, the more it will have the potential to overflow into the skimmer chamber and the more inconsistant your skimmer production will be.

[timdanger]

Also, it would have been nice to have a 3rd baffle between the fuge and pump chambers to help make it a more effective bubble trap."

 

i guess we could always silicone a 3rd piece of acrylic in there to create that baffle? i actually messed around a little bit last night with an old "framed" filter pad with carbon in it (kind of looks like a big cartridge for a cheap freshwater power filter), using it where that 3rd baffle would go between the fuge and the return pump. i didn't really have a good way of keeping it in place, but i wonder if that wouldn't be something worth investigating further.....

 

What has worked for me so far is to run the drain into a 4" filter sock. The sock has done a nice job controlling bubbles, but they need to be cleaned frequently.

 

i've posted a similar question on that awesome cad pro setup thread on reefcentral (see: here). they are recommending filter socks there, too. i'm not exactly sure what a "filter sock" is, though -- is that just any kind of filter bag like you'd put carbon or purigen in? how do you fasten it to the end of the drain hose?

[timdanger]

also, my tank is officially 1 month old today -- i think i'm going to celebrate by picking up a lawnmower blenny tonight.

[awbowden]

I have found that to eliminate the bubbles you need to slow the flow through the sump. The only way I have done this so far is by packing down floss under the baffle from the drain chamber to the fuge. This forces the water to go through the skimmer chamber into the fuge and has slowed the flow. I now have no micro bubbles. However, by doing this, I now have the same skimmer inconsisntency that you have mentioned. It's either not getting into the cup, or it's overflowing the cup. Especially when changing out floss. I have never owned a skimmer either, so I don't know if it's the skimmer, the system, me or any combination of these that need to change in order for the skimmer to be useful.

 

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but what are you running in your drain chamber mkregs?

 

Thanks.

[X3-3.0i]

i think if you cut a longer piece for the drain pipe (1-2" from top) and stick an air tube into the vent hole then that should dramatically cut down the air being made by the water fall in the box. then either use a filter sock or bury the tube into some filter media. i had a sump with my 150G in the past and i found that most micro-bubbles come from the plumbing set up rather than mostly from the equipment. i have the same CAD skimmer that you have on the Pro and at the speed it runs, it should generate that much.

 

hope it helped.

[mkregs]

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but what are you running in your drain chamber mkregs?

The only thing in my drain chamber is a filter sock.

 

Tim,

The filter sock should be left empty. They are great detritus collectors and cut down on your microbubbles nearly entirely. Your drain tube is simply placed inside the filter sock.

[timdanger]

Lawnmower blenny added, trouble-free so far. Turned the lights off so he can relax. hoping not to find him on the ground tomorrow morning (or worse, in one of my cats'/dog's mouths).

 

this open-top business makes me nervous.

 

i think i'm going to have to do something about this. i might be having a conversation with eddie at cadlights about whether they have an extra glass lid i could buy from him (or that i could just have, seeing as how i actually thought when i ordered the tank that it was supposed to come with a lid (and in fact i thought it was advertised as coming with a lid, but anyway).. oh well. still love the tank, despite all this. i wonder if it's that i love this tank, or that i love having a tank that's not an 8g biocube. thoughts?).

 

I have found that to eliminate the bubbles you need to slow the flow through the sump. The only way I have done this so far is by packing down floss under the baffle from the drain chamber to the fuge. This forces the water to go through the skimmer chamber into the fuge and has slowed the flow. I now have no micro bubbles. However, by doing this, I now have the same skimmer inconsisntency that you have mentioned. It's either not getting into the cup, or it's overflowing the cup. Especially when changing out floss. I have never owned a skimmer either, so I don't know if it's the skimmer, the system, me or any combination of these that need to change in order for the skimmer to be useful.

 

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but what are you running in your drain chamber mkregs?

 

Thanks.

 

awbowden, thanks for the reply. i did try that at one point, but i am too concerned about the filter media clogging and causing an overflow. bubbles > puddles. i'm going to try some stuff tomorrow (ran out of time tonight after purchasing the blenny and acclimating him). i'll let everyone know if i have any luck. thanks to everyone else for their suggestions as well!

[rizakaniza]

My suggestion to get rid of your microbubble problem is the following: Move your drainage hose to the laft side of the chamber and your skimmer drain to the right side of the chamber. Try this and let me know if there is a difference. This is the way I hav mine setup and I have 0 microbubble problems and only an inch difference in water level.

[timdanger]

So, something I've been thinking about along with all this other stuff is "how to quiet this tank down." It is in my bedroom, and I'm afraid that it is affecting my wife's and my ability to sleep soundly through the night. The light fans don't bother me too much, just because we're not trying to sleep with the lights on. However, that waterfall can get loud, and the return pump makes a good amount of noise. and, the inlet from the drain pipe will also potentially be making more noise than it is now once i get this microbubble issue solved (here's hoping...).

 

i'm going to get a vortech mp20, more than likely (at least an mp10) within the next couple of months. with that in mind, it seems like i wouldn't need to be as concerned about keeping up high flow in the tank. so, my thought was to replace the return pump with something quieter (which would be just about anything, I think) -- and maybe with something with a lower flow rate?

 

My thought process is this:

1) lower flow rate = not a big deal because i will have for the vortech compensating for this.

2) lower flow will make the waterfall quieter

3) lower flow will slow the water running through my sump, thereby preventing as much "backup" in the drain inlet chamber, and allowing more "contact time" with the skimmer and fuge (and therefore, with the DSB and chaeto). sidenote: laminar flow concept is bumming me out and has me wondering how useful my DSB is in it's present state. my nitrates have never read above 0, but i've also had a pretty low bioload. oh well -- no reason to worry about something that's not a problem, right?

4) lower flow pump = more time for bubbles to pop before getting sucked straight through the sump

5) lower flow pump = less expensive up front, less heat transfer, less energy consumption.

 

does this make sense? i'm such a newb.

[Rehype]

I totally understand where your coming from as my tank is in my bedroom as well. That sounds like a good plan you should invest in an eheim pump they are extremely quiet,use less power and alot less heat transfer to the water. All of the reasons you listed make perfect sense...Go for it.

[timdanger]

I totally understand where your coming from as my tank is in my bedroom as well. That sounds like a good plan you should invest in an eheim pump they are extremely quiet,use less power and alot less heat transfer to the water. All of the reasons you listed make perfect sense...Go for it.

 

hurray for sound reasoning!

 

assuming i've got a vortech mp10 or 20 in place, how much flow do i really need? 300, 400gph? i've heard good things about the eheim re: heat, noise, reliability. maybe the eheim 1250 (320gph, max head of 6.5ft)? next step up is the 1260 (634gph, max head of 12.1ft). you definitely have to shell out for it, though (and i'd probably have to shell out for a heater once the stock pump isn't cooking my water, too!). any cheaper options that people like?

[Rehype]

hurray for sound reasoning!

 

assuming i've got a vortech mp10 or 20 in place, how much flow do i really need? 300, 400gph? i've heard good things about the eheim re: heat, noise, reliability. maybe the eheim 1250 (320gph, max head of 6.5ft)? next step up is the 1260 (634gph, max head of 12.1ft). you definitely have to shell out for it, though (and i'd probably have to shell out for a heater once the stock pump isn't cooking my water, too!). any cheaper options that people like?

 

 

In all honesty if your goal is for lower flow and longer contact with the fuge area as well as less microbubbles. Then a smaller pump will make alot more sense. Going with a 1250 would be fine IMO

[rizakaniza]

Tim,

I was looking at your pictures and it seems part of the bubble problem is the fact that your drainage hose shoots the water straight through the sump due to it's placement. Try reversing the placement of the skimmer and tank drainage hoses. As far as flow, it depends on what you plan to put in your tank. I have a k3 and k4 in my tank and I think it is just the right amount of flow since I want to get SPS.

 

hurray for sound reasoning!

 

assuming i've got a vortech mp10 or 20 in place, how much flow do i really need? 300, 400gph? i've heard good things about the eheim re: heat, noise, reliability. maybe the eheim 1250 (320gph, max head of 6.5ft)? next step up is the 1260 (634gph, max head of 12.1ft). you definitely have to shell out for it, though (and i'd probably have to shell out for a heater once the stock pump isn't cooking my water, too!). any cheaper options that people like?

I've heard good things about the Rio pumps too. One of the guys on RC always talks about it.

 

Edit: After closer inspection it looks like some microbubbles were getting through into the display tank. Here's what I did. I adjusted the skimmer drain so that it was positioned all the way to the left of the chamber and I have the tank drainage to the left of that in between the skimmer drainage and the wall of the sump.

 

Here's why this works to alleviate microbubbles:

 

When the drains are positioned more to the right of the chamber it causes a faster flow of water through the baffles which take many more bubbles along with it. By adjusting the drains in this way it allows most of the bubbles to surface to the top of the chamber and appropriate time to dissipate. The remainder of the bubbles seems to dissipate was they work their way through the sump.

 

What I noticed after this adjustment is that the water level in the drainage chamber went much higher due to more bubbled water remaining in that chamber. The water bubbles to the top creating a higher water level.

[timdanger]

added 2 banggai cardinals tonight.

 

i owe some pics - they're forthcoming. [edit: eventually... ].

[timdanger]

my tank has, in a matter of maybe 4 days, been completely overtaken by a plague of scypha sponges. to all those who think these are "cool hitchhikers," i'd like to just say that they look like fungus and are pretty annoying.

 

also, i can't seem to get my calcium higher than 375-400ppm. i've been dosing the crap out of Brightwell Reef Code A and Reef Code B, but my water just doesn't seem to hold calcium. my Mg is 1250 as of last week, and my alk is 8.5dkh as of 3-4 days ago. i'm getting some coralline growth, but i also feel like i'm losing coralline in other places (tonight, i couldn't find any of my orange/teal coralline that i love so much - it's like it just disappeared overnight). that being said, i'm getting a fair amount of coralline on my glass/loclines/some other rocks. so, on one hand, good that i'm getting the growth -- on the other hand, kind of annoying that i can't keep calcium up and i've somehow lost my favorite coralline. oh well, i guess i'll just keep working at it. is there a chance that my system really is just blowing through that calcium, even though i don't have any of the big "calcium consumers" in there? heh, i wonder how much calcium those friggin sponges are taking. probably a lot.

 

in other news, my new cardinals aren't even eating mysis shrimp (frozen). i guess it's only day 2, but they aren't big guys to begin with. oh well, again, i'll just keep working at it.

[Rehype]

my tank has, in a matter of maybe 4 days, been completely overtaken by a plague of scypha sponges. to all those who think these are "cool hitchhikers," i'd like to just say that they look like fungus and are pretty annoying.

 

also, i can't seem to get my calcium higher than 375-400ppm. i've been dosing the crap out of Brightwell Reef Code A and Reef Code B, but my water just doesn't seem to hold calcium. my Mg is 1250 as of last week, and my alk is 8.5dkh as of 3-4 days ago. i'm getting some coralline growth, but i also feel like i'm losing coralline in other places (tonight, i couldn't find any of my orange/teal coralline that i love so much - it's like it just disappeared overnight). that being said, i'm getting a fair amount of coralline on my glass/loclines/some other rocks. so, on one hand, good that i'm getting the growth -- on the other hand, kind of annoying that i can't keep calcium up and i've somehow lost my favorite coralline. oh well, i guess i'll just keep working at it. is there a chance that my system really is just blowing through that calcium, even though i don't have any of the big "calcium consumers" in there? heh, i wonder how much calcium those friggin sponges are taking. probably a lot.

 

in other news, my new cardinals aren't even eating mysis shrimp (frozen). i guess it's only day 2, but they aren't big guys to begin with. oh well, again, i'll just keep working at it.

 

 

You may want to try another testing kit just to be sure those readings are accurate. I wouldnt worry about the coralline its very rare to keep any of the other cool colors. 95% of the time purple will always outcompete the other colors. Id give the cardinals more time to acclimate and try other types of food as well(brine shrimp,blood worms,cyclop etc..)

[timdanger]

You may want to try another testing kit just to be sure those readings are accurate. I wouldnt worry about the coralline its very rare to keep any of the other cool colors. 95% of the time purple will always outcompete the other colors. Id give the cardinals more time to acclimate and try other types of food as well(brine shrimp,blood worms,cyclop etc..)

 

well, i wanted to be sure myself, because i've just got cheap API/RedSea test kits, which are pretty much just the cheapest ones you can buy. but, i had taken a water sample to my LFS to have them test it (they use Elos and Seachem test kits, which are, if nothing else, more expensive!) - they said everything looked good (confirmed that my nitrates were at zero, etc.), but i didn't get an exact number from them on my calcium. They did say my salinity was high (1.027, versus my crappy hydrometer's reading of 1.024. boo.), but i've taken steps to remedy that.

 

the issue that's concerning me is not that the purple is out-competing the orange/teal -- it's that a lot (if not all of) the orange/teal seems to have just disappeared, and there's no purple in it's place. i think i've lost a lot of color off the rock in the front of my tank, for instance. on the other hand, though, i've got several spots of purple coralline that have started to bloom elsewhere (glass, loclines, on other rocks).

 

i wonder if it's that the purple is out-competing the teal/orange by stealing all the calcium for itself, thus starving out (as opposed to overgrowing) the other colors? maybe that's what everyone means when they say purple out-competing other colors, and i'm just now figuring that out..?

[timdanger]

more complaints:

 

1) the hinges on the cabinet doors are already covered in rust. i mean, come on cadlights -- the 39 pro is obviously for salt water use -- how are you gonna use metal that rusts on the inside of a sump cabinet?? weak.

 

2) while working on my tank recently, i've noticed that all of the water will randomly drain out of my skimmer, like it's being flushed. the pump's not running dry -- it's almost like it skips off for a second, then comes back on, and fills with water again. is this supposed to happen??? If it is, what purpose would that even serve??

 

3) i'm not 100% sure that this is the tank equipment's fault (though i have no reason to think otherwise, because i'm only using the stock equipment, no other additional parts -- not even a heater), but since i installed one of those portable "shock buster" GFCI outlets (like they sell on DFS) for this tank on Sunday, it has tripped 4 times, including three times between the hours of 2:00AM-2:30AM (once last night, twice the night before). nothing is turning on/off at that time that would trip it (like i've read other people have experienced when using GFCIs). i don't even leave my moonlights on all night. so, what, is it a random voltage leak? i've read some bad things about my power strip (coralife power center dual-timer strip) causing fires, etc. i guess that could be it. but, i never had any trouble with it on my 8g biocube (.. or did i? my biocube's light fixture did seem to blow all at once... hmm.).

 

in any event, it is VERY UPSETTING to be awoken by the sound of fast-draining water in your bedroom in the middle of the night, and having to get up and press the reset button on the GFCI outlet (though, it's not neeeeearly as upsetting as having to do it twice :eek:). the upside, i guess, is that neither of these things are as upsetting as having my house burn down or getting electrocuted, which, i dunno, would i have been? something's causing it to trip....... i wonder if getting one of those ground probes would help prevent this trip by eliminating stray voltage. any thoughts (i'm assuming you can combine ground probes with GFCI)?

[mkregs]

Rusty stand hinges....I have them too. We probably should have sprayed some clearcoat on them before setting up the tanks....oh well.

 

About your skimmer issue....you might want to read on the cadlights.com forum. There is someone on there that has had problems with 2 skimmer pumps so far.