I could really use a little help.....

[joyride]

Hi there, I am setting up my very first saltwater tank. I have a 20 Gallon Tank, Eclipse System 2 hood, and heater. My plans for the tank are to have 2 percula clowns, a sea star, 10 crabs, and hopefully an anenome or two for my clowns. After researching and spending some time on another forum I found out that I could use playsand for the bottom. I was told that stuff called Southdown which could be found at home depot works well. Anyways I could not find it so I bought just some regular playsand at a nursery. I was wondering if there is any way to check to make sure that it will be ok for my tank, I believe I heard something about some sands having silicates or something that were bad?? Also I was planning on putting some live rock in but was wondering if with the wet/dry bio wheel in the eclipse if LR would be necessary for this set up. If it is necessary I was wondering if it is ok just to be in a lighted tank with water circulation. The guy at the LFS today told me that it would but to me it does not make sense because I thought LR needed ammonia and if there were no fish in the tank then there would be no ammonia produced. Why I wonder about it with having no fish in is because I will be gone for a month and it would be great if it could cycle while I am gone. Sorry about the long post but any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

PS. Two differen't LFS have given me different answers on lighting for an anenome...Would I need something special??

[blue fishies]

1) read the package of sand your using, if it contains silicate then toss it, IMO id just get some sand from your lfs.

2)IMO, crabs are such a good idea, i'd get some snails, shrimp, ect..

3)you dont really need the bio-wheel, just get a protien skimmer instead.

4)usualy in a reef tank set-up you would have live rock, live rock is a must IMO because of all the benifits it has, such as bio-filtration, it wil make your tank look more natural, and your clownfishies would think its the ocean. Live rock doesn't need ammonia.

5)The tank usualy cycles in about a week or so, id just leave it if your going to go on vacation, when you come back it should be cycled and established enough for some snails and shrimp.

6)Stay away from anemonies, there very difficult to keep from what i have learned. They require a very stable aquarium and very high/intense lighting such as metal halides.

hope that helps, id just lurk around the posts some more just to make sure your going to do everything correctly.

[joyride]

I already have the Eclipse Hood though with the BIO Wheel....that won't be good enough??

[blue fishies]

well a bio-wheel is more of controlling nirate, nitrite, ammonia, ect.. you need something that will eliminate disolved orginisms and stuff

[blue fishies]

oh and the eclipse lighting, it most likey will be too low, id at LEAST get 72w power compacts

[joyride]

Ok...So I should really get some Live Rock then. Then I would be alright for biological filtration. How much would you recommend (I am on a budget) Also do you know why silicate based sand is bad???

[joyride]

I could not find any information on the bag at all about silicates...What would be the possible outcomes from the sand...could I just use a damsel once my tank gets cycled to see if the sand effects it? I understand that damsel's are very hardy but would that still be an okay way to check?? I almost have it all...I am just trying to save whatever money I can. (rather pay $3 instead of $30 if i can...just that much more money towards other things)

[sgoodine]

If you are not 100% what is in that sand, then do not use it. I understand that you are trying to save money now, but if you are unlucky and the sand is bad, it will cost you a lot more in livestock, time, and frustration later.

 

Also, the fish test you suggested is a bad idea IMO. It may take a considerable amount of time for harmful elements in the sand to harm the fish.

 

To insure success, use the best LR, LS and RO/DI water (or its equivalent). Note that this is just my opinion based on my own experiences.

[joyride]

Well I noticed on the package that the sand is packaged in the town next door. I am assuming that I could contact the company and ask??? What would I ask, Does your sand contain silicates, or is it silicate based??? I am assuming they should know this?? Thanks.

[joyride]

This link right here discusses playsand and says that even silicon based is ok...There are a few people there saying ok and a few here saying no. I am confused...

 

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=8775

[joyride]

I think even if this is a problem I would just look for some southdown instead...

[Kluver]

Also, toss the bio-wheel out. Use LR and LS instead. In the long run the bio-wheel will cause alot of problem. Do a search here on bio-wheel and you'll find out why.

 

As far as sand goes...I think if you can then buy the live sand that they sell in the LFS for 20 bucks. It comes in a 20lb bag. It'll help your tank cycle faster. The recommended LR is about 1-1.5 lbs per gallon and 1 lbs of LS per gal. I agree w/ sgood..don't use things if you don't know what's in it.

 

IMO, reef keeping is a very expensive and time consuming hobby....don't waste your time and money by having to restart over. Start right from the start. LR, LS and good lighting are the essentials elements...don't skim out on these. Remember, if you are using LR and LS, then throw away the biowheel. HTH.

[onthefly]

First off silicate is not sand, but can be a soluble component of it!!!! Next, silicon is what they make computer chip out of, and also the valley is named after it....so forget that one too!!!!

 

Silica is probably what the play sand has in it. Silica is ok!!! It doesn't have the same buffering capacity that CaCO3 does, but if you have plenty of LR you should be ok!

 

When buying playsand......ask the dealer for an MSDS (material saftey data sheet). they are required by law to carry them and the MSDS must contain info like composition. For example, quikrete's medium grade commercial sand is >99.9% pure SiO2......Sand!

 

Things to look for on the MSDS.....Felspar, Limestone, and Silicate can cause problems. SiO2 (silica) is totally inert and won't effect water chemistry at all.

[brahm]

Just spend the 20 bucks at your LFS and buy the 20lb back of Live sand Insta-Cycle. I have that in both of my tanks and have had no problems what so ever with it yet. LR, 1-1.5 as already said is the only way to go. (this will be the priciest part).

 

You can have a Bubble Tip Anenome under Power Compacts, but be aware it might wander (and wreck everything it touchs), also requires a well established tank and feedings.

[Crakeur]

bta's don't need halides or even 72 watts of pc. Everything I have read says they will adjust to most lighting but they aren't bright light lovers.

 

case in point. rose bta in my tank ran and hid in a shady area. died in the blackout.

 

bta that's in there now, right into the shaded rock area (out of view too).

 

ditch the silicate sand and get some southdown at a home depot or similar store. or get yourself any fine grain sand (unless you don't want fine sand)

[digitallinx]

It amazes me the comments left by some of the people here.....this place is for information,as the title states; not blasting every chance you get. direct the person with human respect to the correct place.

[brahm]

Welcome to the INTERNET, people at the finest without fear of reprimand.

[ViolentBliss]

Hello JoyRide. I am the Beast Master. I am crazy and somewhat inebriated, but I can still help you. My ferrets friends will help also. Listen carefully.

 

1) Substrate

Builders sand may contain silica. Silica contributes to diatom blooms. Which means you use the wrong stuff and you'll be plagued by the brown crap on your glass, sand, rock, fish...forever. Toss it.

Buy a bag of live sand. Buy a bag of agronite (crushed coral). Mix. Roughly 1~1.5lbs per gallon. Hence 2-3 bags total. Why use these instead? Live sand contains bacteria and tiny creature friends that will eat your poo. The live sand and crushed coral (same thing in the end i guess) create a natural PH buffer. It'll help mainain your 8.0.

 

2) Water

Use good quality water. Go to your local Safeway or whatever supermarket you crazy Californians have and buy a cartful of distilled water. It'll set you back a whopping 20 bucks to fill your tank. But why not use tap? Silicates..read above. Use some good salt. Done. No water changes needed. I don't care how many people flame me for saying this. I've never done a water change in any of my saltwater/reef tanks and they all thank me. Just top of the evaporated water with plain distilled.

 

3) Hardware

My philosophy is the less you spend on gadgets and the less you screw around your tank, the better off everyone will be. But you must know what you want. You have your tank (20 gallons). You have your lighting and filteration (Eclipse 2). More than good enough for a fish only. Buy a magnetic algae scraper or use a razor blade. You will get algae. It will eventually go away. If you use good water. No need for a protein skimmer. If you use live sand and live rock (they will be your filter) replace the eclipse filter media or bio wheel with a chemi-pure filter bag. You don't have to change these things for 6-12 months. Buy a timer. Have the lights come on sparingly in a fish only setup, as the fish don't really need light but algae does.

 

4) Livestock

 

Buy a few pieces of live rock if it floats your boat. A pound a gallon is the rough rule for most rock. But that's for a reef setup. Buy what you're comfortable with. Yes, you need ammonia to cycle a tank. What is ammonia in nature? ####. Your live rock and sand will have these. It will cycle. Research what will go in the tank. Starfish? No. Chocolate chips will eat your fish. Others will die. Anemones? Condys may live, others will die, and you're better off saving your money. Crabs? What kind? Why? Perhaps a few hermits and a couple of turbos. Nothing fancy. Clownfish are territorial. Don't buy two males and put them in a 20....although perculas have the ability to change sexes....nevermind. Fish grow. Buy small ones that won't grow. Don't overcrowd. Think about how many fish you want in the tank. Usually divide that by half.

 

OK..I kinda forgot your main question and I don't want to write anymore so I leave you with this piece of advice. Read. Read. Read. Take your time. Keep your tank a fish only until you have the knowledge and resources to move on. In the end follow the ways of K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

Try this:

 

http://saltaquarium.about.com/

 

Long days...

[onthefly]

Originally posted by ViolentBliss

 

"I am crazy and somewhat inebriated, but I can still help you."

 

1) Substrate

Builders sand may contain silica. Silica contributes to diatom blooms. Which means you use the wrong stuff and you'll be plagued by the brown crap on your glass, sand, rock, fish...forever.

 

Absolutely a FALSE statment....silica does not contribute to diatom blooms, glass tanks are made of it!!! Silicates "can" and you must check into the quality of your source. I have 100% silica in my tank, never a diatom bloom. Also several people on here have set up there big tanks (i.e. 90ga) with silica...and never a diatom bloom........MISINFORMATION!!!!

 

 

 

2) Water

Use good quality water. Go to your local Safeway or whatever supermarket you crazy Californians have and buy a cartful of distilled water. It'll set you back a whopping 20 bucks to fill your tank. But why not use tap? Silicates..read above. Use some good salt. Done. No water changes needed. I don't care how many people flame me for saying this. I've never done a water change in any of my saltwater/reef tanks and they all thank me. Just top of the evaporated water with plain distilled.

 

Congratulations on never doing a w/c!!! However, silicate are the smaller problem with California water, the BIG problem is PO4. Example, San Diego water (a couple years ago when I tested it)....was off the scale!! Telling a new comer to the hobby that they should never do a w/c is setting them up for failure. Some of us, who are comfortable with our set up and water chemistry, know that if we go "a while" between changes, it's ok. For a newcomer, I think it is better to tell them to practice good husbandry, before telling them to be.....well.....lazy!

 

3) Hardware

 

Be careful using a razor blade on acrylic...it scratches easily!!!

 

Read. Read. Read. Take your time.

 

I agree with the "beast master" on this one

 

Keep your tank a fish only until you have the knowledge and resources to move on.

 

Finally, I do disagree with this one.....After you have read all you possible can, set up the tank with some LR and LS (or dead sand...silica or SD....some of us on the west coast can't get SD!), and get the cycle going. When that is done........SLOWLY start adding livestock to the tank....with the most hardy critters (crabs, snails...your basic clean up crew) first. Believe me, you will find plenty to look at with your first bit of LR.......

[AbSoluTc]

1) Substrate  

Builders sand may contain silica. Silica contributes to diatom blooms. Which means you use the wrong stuff and you'll be plagued by the brown crap on your glass, sand, rock, fish...forever.  

 

Absolutely a FALSE statment....silica does not contribute to diatom blooms, glass tanks are made of it!!! Silicates "can" and you must check into the quality of your source. I have 100% silica in my tank, never a diatom bloom. Also several people on here have set up there big tanks (i.e. 90ga) with silica...and never a diatom bloom........MISINFORMATION!!!!

 

 

You both are equally wrong. Silica sand should be avoided for use in reefs. It serves no purpose other than aesthetics. The main reason for a sand bed consisting of calcium carbonate is to aid in CA levels and PH buffer to a certain degree. Also, calcium based sand is finer, porous and better for tank inhabitants that live in the sand. Silica sand is rougher and again does nothing beneficial for the tank other than aesthetics. Of course it may provide the qualities of what a sand bed is suppose to, but who really knows?

 

Avoid it if you can. If you can't get an untainted source.

[onthefly]

Although I do understand the CaCO3 vs. Silica debate.......I wouldn't say we're equally wrong. The "beast master" states that silica is BAD......I was merely saying that it wasn't BAD. It is an alternative. I like to take in all info and make an informed decision. Statements like "it's bad...don't do it" are not helpful. Say why it isn't good and everyone would be better off.

 

"Serving no purpose other than aesthetics" It actually serves as an outstanding substrate for biologic filtration. I should say that the stuff I use (as you stated, I researched the source) is bright white and very fine!!! It is working amazingly!!!

 

That being said, is it as good as CaCO3 based sands....... hmmmmm, the jury is out on that one. Buffering capacity of CaCO3 is better than silica, but by how much? A chemist would tell you that both are highly "insoluble" in seawater. With good husbandry and frequent w/c's their should be plenty of ORP and buffering capacity in the water. I'll figure out the solubilitiy later today.......as a side note, I find it funny that my 45ga with 60lbs of CaCO3 has a lower pH (8.0) than my 100% silica nano (8.2).

 

In terms of the "softness" of CaCO3. I feel as though this is merely a selling point for CaCO3 companies. Bare in mind, that all of the west coast of the US is NOT CaCO3 based sand, but silica and quartz based sand from volcanic run off. Funny, I don't see halibut, flounder,and shovelnose shark with "raspberries" on their bellies from the "sharp" sand. Furthermore, my sand sifters don't have bleeding gills and my silica sand nano has more worms, and pods running thru it than my CaCO3 45ga.

 

Anyway, I respect what you say Abs! You're one of the good ones around here....my main point was with the "beast master" and his blanket statement: "Silica will cause your tank to explode with diatoms" were misleading! Check out some of his other statments on other posts and you'll see a disturbing trend of poor husbandry.

 

I'm not trying to stand on a soapbox and say "Convert, you CaCO3 sinners!", it is an alternative....

[AbSoluTc]

I understand Its just somone reading along would think oooh I can just use silica sand. So on so forth. CA based sand has alot of pro's in using it. Silica based sand is an alternative providing nothing but the dsb experience in terms of what a DSB does for a tank. Everyhting else ca based sand does, silica can not.

 

Anyways. I hope he got the nfo he required