Sump

[Jezze]

Ive been reading a lot about people adding sumps to there tanks. could someone explain how they work, maybe some links on how to set one up?

 

what are the benefits to these?  what are the downsides?

 

I got an unused 15 gallon tank and I need a project.. so tell me your thoughts! thanks

 

 

Jesse

[Guest AbSoluTc]

If your thinking about putting that 15 on your 10 as a sump.. don't bother.  Its more trouble than its worth.  Make that 15 your nano.

 

A sump on larger systems is there to house equipment such as skimmers and some are used as refugiums.  On nanos, the only purpose it will serve is to add more water volume.  It is a plus, but the trouble to add it just for that, and perhaps a refugium, is not worth it.

[Nishant3789]

y not? ITs not really taht hard dude all u need is a powerhead or two depending on if u want to syphon the water outa the main tank to the sump or not.... and tubeing... Im going to make a ten gallon fuge when i get a new stand. Is this more trouble than its worth? i dont c what is so complicated about it really, jw. it will help alot dude, it will increase your water volume which as we kno will make your system more stable. jmo

nishant

[My Alife 7]

My tank has a sump already built into it and I use it basically just to hide all the equipment that you'd normally see in the tank, just to keep it out of view.

[Jezze]

so what would you put in the "refugium"?  lots of sand?  or coraline encrusted rock? or just tons of macro algea?  

what kind of lightin would it require.. and would the light be on all the time?  how does the water get back and forth?  do you use two powerheads?  if so, how do you match there speeds.. seems kinda dangerous if something should go wrong...

[Joe]

Jez,

 

The best way of doing the system your thinking about is not a siphon! its an overflow system. how it would work is you have a pump in the botom tank (the sump) then you would pump water into the main tank from the sump with a large powerhead/submersible pump. you can buy a premade over flow system or you can make one. if you can have your tank drilled it would be really easy, simply install a bulkhead in the tank and as the water level rises it will spill back down into the sump.  the reason why you NEVER EVER want to use a siphon system to try to match the siphon to the pump is a task that doesn't usually work because to get it exact is almost impossible. If the siphon breaks you will have water on the floor or if the pump shuts off you will have water on the floor. overflow is the only way to go.

If you need any ideas on what an overflow is or how it works go to this web address to see a few different designs

 

http://saltaquarium.tqn.com/cs/diycorner/index.htm

 

You can buy one at for 40 bux:

http://www.thatpetplace.com

 

This one is VERY nice and professional and very sturdy.

click fish at the top- then filters- then wet/dry- then its the SGL overflow by amiracle

 

if you try the siphon idea you will be sorry because a wet floor and carpet full of salt water is no fun.

 

Just my take on the subject

Joe

 

(Edited by Joe at 12:52 am on June 26, 2002)

[Nishant3789]

joe thats not true... if u use a pump/powerhead to pump water into ure sump from the aquarium and a pump to pump it back, then theres no need for an overflow OR a syphon.... this is what im intending on doing when i make my 10 gallon fuge... i kno i wont get ALL that much as far as copepods but i think im also going to use this for a prop tank. anyways hope this helps!

nishant

[Catspa]

I was thinking about what joe said..... and disagree in part,  First i agree that an overflow system is the BEST methode, but involves drilling your tank, something that not many of us are willing to do, when its already set up..etc..  Just my two cents, but here's my idea.

 

You can use the siphone methode, and can do so without worring about flooding you app, if you design it right.

1st siphone must start high enough within your tank, so that if your return pump fails to operate, the siphone will run dry before your sump overfills...(makes sense right).

2nd install a float switch or moisture switch on your sump's pump/powerhead, so that the return pump or powerhead will turn on when water gets to a certain level... also make sure you install the pump or powerhead high enough in your sump that if the sphone fails for some reason, the pump or power head will run dry before it floods your tank.

 

Now remember, neither the siphone or the pump should run dry under normal situations... its just a saftey percasion.. I'd reather have to replace a 20$ powerhead then clean up a flood in my room.

 

**Also note that, given this design, the sump pump would turn on and off every minute or so, not a bad thing, considering that this would give you a nice intermitent current...

 

Whatcha think?

[Smokey Joe]

Nishant, you won't be able to match the pump speeds.  Even if you buy two of the same model the speeds will be slightly different.  Over time (and probably just a few miunutes) one pump will win out and you will end up with a wet floor.  You could install float switches but then you're just adding more things that can fail.  Drill the tank, it's really the only good route in my opinion.

[Nishant3789]

smokey, but even then, if the powerheads are adjustable whats the beef? ill just adjust it to the point where its at the right pump setting...

nishant

[Catspa]

what, no one like my suggestion..

[Guest AbSoluTc]

nishant -

 

Doing it wrong will cost  you time and money later.  Either do it right, or steer clear of it.   It is a known fact here and on rc that have 2 pumps to work a sump/fuge is a no no.  If either one fails, you will be cleaning up a flood and will loose all your livestock.

 

You can adjust all you want.  It might work, for a while anyways.

[Catspa]

Seriously, does anyone see a problem with my design idea? - as far as i can see, there is no chance of spillage, plus its easy to do...

[Smokey Joe]

Most aren't continuously adjustable.  If you use ones that are I don't think they're adjustable enough to set exactly right.  Using two pumps is not the way you want to do it.

[Smokey Joe]

Not to mention even if you did get the outputs exactly right the pumps would wear at differnet rates and get dirty at different rates.  This would affect the flow and cause it to become imbalanced.  

[Nishant3789]

? yea but i thought it was also a well known fact that you keep your pumps at the highest level possible so taht just enough of it is in the water to pump the water... this way if one of the pumps DOES fail then it would only keep pumping till there was no water beneath it at which point no harm is done the water level just rises in one of the two tanks....., i would keep the water in both tanks a little bit lower so that they wont overflow..... il prob only fill up the sump/fuge 9 gallons or so... tell me what you think

nishant

[Smokey Joe]

Listen, I'm not saying you can't do it that way, just that it's a far inferior way to set a sump up.  Supposing you can set the pumps to be exactly equal (which I don't think you can) within a matter or hours I'm guessing they won't be equal any more.  I think even if you manage to get them equal the system would either overflow, or if set up like you suggest, a pump would burn out within a matter of days.  Why not just drill it?  It's far easier and far more robust.

[Nishant3789]

i cant drill the tempered glass.............. so theres nop other safe way of connecting two tanks??? this sucks.......

nishant

[Catspa]

ya there is, if you read my post

[Nishant3789]

lol poor poor castpa! no one listened to (her/him???). yes that is baseically what is the whole point of a syphon overflow, and that was one of my options, the prob is though exactly what the other guy said, adjusting the syphon to the right height and adjusting the pump. according to smokey, the pump will change its gph over time and could/will result in a flood. i dont c what the point of the float switch is ion anycase im not able to get one here. the whole thing about the syphon running dry or the pump going dry was my initial plan. as for paying for a new powerhead, i wont need to, my zoomed 104 pump is guraentied to run 30 days dry. i think this is what i may do in the latter. thanks

nishant

[Smokey Joe]

Assuming you're getting an All-Glass tank any of them that you would use for a nano reef are not tempered.  In fact, I'm considering replacing my 20g with a 30g that I'll drill and add a 20g sump.  If you can't find an aquarium or hardware store to drill it for you you can do it yourself fairly easily so long as you're careful.  If you do plan on doing it yourself get some instructions either by asking here or just searching around the web.

[Smokey Joe]

The pump changing flow rate isn't a problem in the siphon setup as the whole system overturn is proportional to the one pump flow rate.

[Nishant3789]

yea the top tank is an aga iom pretty sure, thats great news that it can be drilled but my tank is already setup and all so it would be hard to drill......... if it isnt a problem then y wouldnt it work? thanks though

nishant

[Joe]

Sorry People!!!

 

I didn't mean you HAVE you drill your tank to set up an overflow system... If you have a tank and you dont want to drill it then buy the amiracle overflow from thatpetplace.com it costs 40 dollars and doesnt require any drilling.

 

This is how it works:

 

There is a skimmer box in the tank that has water in it. There is a box that hangs on the back that is at a lower point then the skimmer box in the tank itself. There is a siphon tube between the two boxes.

 

The box on the back of the tank has 2 chambers in it. one chamber is sealed  and the other has a bulkhead fitting drilled though the bottom. this is very important to keep the siphon alive in case of a power outage. The wall between the two chambers (on the box that hangs on the back) goes up to about the middle of the overflow box (that is in the tank). The top of this wall will be the water level in the skimmer box (that is in the tank).

 

Water seeks its lowest level though a siphon. so if water is pumping into the tank and the skimmer box water level (in the tank) starts filling up it will be higher then the water level in the chamber in that hangs on the back so it will siphon into the back chamber that has a lower water level. As the sealed chamber of the box that hangs on the back of the tank fills with water it will spill over into the second chamber with the bulkhead fitting in the bottom.

 

If the water level of the tank stops raising (in the event of a power failure) then the siphon will equalize the water in the skimmerbox (that is in the tank) and the sealed chamber (that hangs on the back). which means the siphon is still ready to work.

 

Joe

[Joe]

The major reason you do not want to use two pumps at exactly the same speed no mater what  (EVEN if the tanks are side by side) is if one fails (like if the impeller sticks or the pump clogs) and the other one dont you will have water on the floor. if you have two tanks that you want side by side the best way of doing this is put a pump in one and a siphon tube between them.  The siphon between them will keep the water levels Equal even if the pump fails. If one tank is above the other you have a much bigger problem with two pumps if the power fails the pump in the top tank will cause a siphon and the water in the top tank will flow to the bottom though the pumbing and the other pump willl be off so it cant return it. well this is my advise use it as you want

 

 

If you dont believe me please try this: put a 2 buckets onto the floor. fill both 1/2 full of water start a siphon with a hose between the two buckets full of water.  lift either bucket and watch the water move to the lower bucket. put the bucket back on the ground and they will both be half full again.

 

Joe