T5?

[mikefishguy]

I have a 20 gallon tank that is almost cycled, and have started looking into lighting options. I want to have very few limits (coral-wise) but also very little upkeep costs.

 

After doing a researching and reading for awhile, it seemed to be accepted that MH is the ONLY way to keep almost ANY coral. But sadly, I can not afford to pay $60-$80 a year for bulbs. I decided to go over to RC, to see what people are thinking. It seems people are starting to support a new type of lighting, T5HO.

 

I did some research into this around here, and experiences seem to be mostly negative.

 

According to many articles on the internet, the output of 96 watts of T5 are almost near to 150 MH. And there are many instances of people having clams with T5, so the output of T5 shouldn’t be a problem. I do not need to have an award winning high-light tank,

I just don’t want to find out my light is insufficient for what I want to keep after a year.

 

But the main reason I am looking into T5 is because of the replacement costs. As I mentioned before, I simply cannot afford to pay $70 a year for bulbs. This is where T5 really beats out MH. T5 bulbs last 2-4 years. Replacing 4 bulbs at $20 each ($80) every 2-4 years could potentially make the cost of replacement cost LESS than that of 2 PC's. Also, having bulbs shipped up here every 2-4 years is ALOT cheaper and easier.

 

So.. what are your thoughts? Is my information correct?

 

Thanks,

Mike

[adinsxq]

you mentioned four tubes and 96w T5HO so i'm assuming you're considering 4 - 24w tubes. is that right?

 

depending on how close you position each tube with respect to the others (minimizing "bounce back") you might be able to "save" some lumen output over compact fluorescents. but other than that, i'm under the impression that they're about the same (in respect to lumen output).

 

with this in mind, i think we can compare the costs of t5 to pc. if we go along with your information that t5 tubes can go for 2-4 years before replacement, your 96w setup will come to $40/year ($20/year if you're generous). it's common to put 2x55/65w pc over a 20g tank and if you were to replace these tubes once a year, you would also be spending about $40/year (~$20/tube). the pc 96w quad is another option at $40/quad, but if one of your main interests is light distribution, the 24" length of the T5HO might very slightly outweigh the PC benefits.

 

so in short...

 

imo, if you can handle spending forty dollars per year to replace your tubes you could....

 

1. 2x65w pc (130w)

2. 1x96w pc quad (96w)

3. 4x24w t5ho f24 (96w)

 

4. splurge with an extra 15 dollars and get a metal halide setup

 

 

but then again, pricing in canada may favor t5s as i'm speaking from a US perspective . hope that helped.

[mikefishguy]

Yes, I am considering the 4x24 watt system, spicifically the one by Sunlight Supply, the Teklight.

 

The reflectors on the T5 are part of the reason the T5's are doing so well. They seem very efficient.

 

I dont really care too much about light distribution, but if you look around, you will see that PC is alot worse than T5.

 

First, the LPW of PC is a fair bit lower than T5 (if anyone knows the exact number that would be helpful)

 

Second, Due to the twin tube design, the PC's are VERY inefficient. As much as 1/3 of the light output is self reflected.

 

As I said before, I want to have VERY few limits coral-wise. Under T5, I can have SPS, and even clams. I dont believe that you can do that with PC.

 

Actually, PC's are easier to get in Canada than T5. So far, I have not seen any retailers selling T5 in Canada. There is a bit on MH up here, but it is outrageously expensive. So, that means I can ship either T5 or MH up here. Due to customs costs, the $45 difference can turn into a $65 difference very quickly. Also, I have to get a new MH bulb every year, making the price difference even larger.

 

For these reasons, I think PC is really out of the question. Am I correct?

[MrConclusion]

If $20 or $50 a year is a budget-buster, should you be doing this at all? I'm not being sarcastic, someone should tell you plainly that this is a hobby where even unexpected expenses of $20 to $50 are not uncommon.

 

You'll be spending hundreds of dollars on live rock alone, not to mention live sand and corals. For a decent 20 gallon nano, you will spend over $1000 or $2000, so it doesn't make sense to skimp on $20, $50, or even $150 to cripple the whole system.

 

I mean this in general... not to imply that I think the T5's are a bad idea. I'm putting 6xT5's over a 30 gallon next week.

 

One problem with 24" T5's is that "actinic 03" (420nm wavelength) is not available in 24". You can only get "blue" (450nm) bulbs. These are better than nothing, but not as good as true actinic. Right now, only 36" and 48" have "actinic 03" bulbs available.

 

BTW, PC bulbs are good for 12 months on a standard ballast running at standard output. If they're overdriven (like with a workhorse ballast) the life is shortened to 6 months. Many users replace them earlier, because light output is going down all the time. T5's are the same - they will not be as good at the end of their rated life! Also, T5's don't last 2-4 years. Only the 6500K "sun" bulbs are rated at 2 years, the others are rated at 12-18 months. T5 bulbs are also more expensive than $20 each - more like $25 to $30 for real reef-type 24" bulbs.

 

But check the numbers:

(All prices from reefgeek.com)

 

1x Sunlight Supply 4x24" T5 hood $240

2x "Sun" bulb $48 (replace at 24 months)

1x "Aqua" bulb $25 (replace 14-18 months)

1x "Blue" bulb $24 (replace 14-18 months)

TOTAL: $337

 

OR

 

1x CustomSeaLife 2x65watt PC with bulbs $169

Replace bulbs (non-overdriven PCs last 12 months) $54

You can replace the bulbs every year for a long time and still be cheaper than T5's!

 

OR

 

1x 175watt MH "Reef Sun" Pendant $259

(This includes upgrade to 12,000K bulb)

 

Personally, it seems to me that the t5's are the worst deal for the money! Keep in mind that I already bought a bunch of them, but I'd never recommend them to someone on a budget. PCs are better for the money, and very effective (theoretical numbers aside, you can't argue with the success that users have with them.) And MH is even better, if you can afford it!

 

Please don't take this as criticism, I'm just worried that someone has been exaggerating the T5 advantages to you, and you really should know what's up before you spend your money!

[adinsxq]

i didn't look at who created this thread when i posted earlier today. mike and i had this conversation last night and he's bent on getting the t-5s so... okay have fun and good luck. post your pics in the members section when you're up and running.

 

i gave you example specs of lumens per watt for both CFLs and T5HOs last night for different tube lengths. you wanted to find your own documentation.

 

special note to MrC: if you pop open a customsealife ballast box, there's a surprise inside (workhorse)

 

 

divorce your wife and get the halide.

[mikefishguy]

Actually, I am really "on the fence" right now, I am really unsure. MrConclusion's post was sooo correct im not sure anymore. I have scrapped out the "budjet". I am just going to decide based on looks, and light output, etc.

 

Here are the two fixtures I am considering:

 

1. T-5 Teklight with 3 daylight and I blue bulb: I will have 1 NO actnic bulb: $340.00@Reefgeek.com

what bulbs would you get ?

 

2.Coralife 175w Pendant fixture with upgrade to 10000k bulb:$220.00 @hellolights.com, with my existing NO actnic

 

The long term costs are the same, so the question is: is it worth it to spend $120 more on T5?

 

The only thing I dont like about the MH is that it is HUGE... it is close to as tall as my tank, and is 3/4 as wide. The T5 looks alot better.. are there any other reasons to go T5?

 

Thanks, Mike

[MrConclusion]

adinsxq:

 

I had no idea that CSL was using workhorse ballasts, but that's good news. I want to order their 2x96w w/ moonlight now!

 

Funny, on their website they still rate bulb life at 1 year. Of course, they will still be burning in a year, but nothing like new-bulb brilliance. My 96-watt workhorse is a retina-troch when new, and after 8 months visibly needs a bulb.

[MrConclusion]

mikefishguy:

 

One more piece of advice... don't get a Coralife "bell" shaped pendant - they are VERY inefficient. None of the light gets to the tank directly from the bulb, it all has to be reflected off the interior surface of the bell befort it reaches the tank.

 

Due to this, bell-pendants spread the light too much to get the shimmer effect, which is the beauty and joy of MH. Spend a few extra bucks for a fixture that holds the bulb horizontally, not vertically. These fixtures are also smaller. The ReefSun I mentioned before is 19½”L x 10½”W x 6’H

 

If you want a really small fixture, you can go for a HQI (double-ended MH bulb) which are smaller, more efficient, and therefore easier to manufacture a smaller fixture. I love my PFO 150watt HQI and it's only 7.5"W, 4.5"H, 12"L!

[mikefishguy]

Hmmm.. that is the first time I have heard about the bell shaped design problems. So you think I should go with the Reefsun? Are there other good fixtures around the same price?

 

Is there much difference between the single and double ended bulbs? I am reading that the 2 ended last a little longer- how much longer?

 

Also what kind of heat do these generate? Am I going to need fans? The fixture is going in my basement, which stays at about 70, but sometimes rises to 75.. will I be okay?

 

I was talking to a guy at the LFS today, and he sais that my LR will die shortly under my NO light if I do not upgrade my lighting... Is this true?

[mikefishguy]

I am looking at Premium Aquatics' website, right now, and they have something where you can use seperate components to make a system.

 

I wass thinking of this pendant:

The Icecap pendant $103.00

 

With one of these ballasts:

 

Eballast $140

 

PFO Ballast (my favourite price-wise) $75

 

Icecap Ballast $107

 

Coralvue $105

 

And, last but not least, a bulb $52

 

So.. it is possible to do the whole thing with an Icecap ballast for $250

 

Which one would you pick?.. what else do I need?

 

Thanks for all of your help,

Mike