benstayman Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 hiya people, im just starting out on marines and i would like some help, iv looked round the place and i know what most things i would like to get so far i have: eheim wet/dry filter sea clone skimmer 50 gall tank need help on lighting!!! any help on wot a sump is would be helpful 2, i did ask my local marine store and all i got was its just a place to mix up ur water ready for the tank. And also if these fish would be ok 2gether: golden butterfly 2x yellow banded marron clowns a bubbletip anenome maybe a copperband butterfly a sailfin tang a regal tang or a yellow tang could you please help it would be gr8! Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 First this is a forum for Nano Reefs that means tanks 29g and under. Second, No tangs in any tank under 75g, it will not give it a good life, they swim feverishly in the wild, from REEF TO REEF, so I would think it inhumane to keep it in a tank under 75g at LEAST. For lighting a Single 250w MH and a Actinic light will provide proper balance and give all the light you will need, note that a 250w MH and a 3x96w PC arent even close a MH is much better for a reef. I also have one question for you; Is your tank going to be a reef or FOWLR (fish only with live rock) Link to comment
Crakeur Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 uhoh, I sense the what is nano debate again. phish, it is perfectly ok to put a tang or two in a smaller tank, provided you have an exit strategy when the tang gets bigger. Link to comment
benstayman Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 a reef, but im just getting all my other things together b4 i decide on other things Link to comment
benstayman Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 but u gotta remeber i live in the UK, US gallons are much bigger than ours Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Yeah, I know that crak, but I dont think he has one, (or will) I dont know of his financial status, but yours must be good to have a 180g!! Hey if you dont mind, could ya tell me what you keep in there crak. Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Wait, so how many gallons is your tank, if its less than 75 us Gallons then there is no way you could keep any tang in the tank (unless you have a much bigger one for later) Link to comment
benstayman Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 im confused now thx hehe, its just a rough estimate on the gallons the tank im getting is 3ftx1.5ftx1.5ft how many gallons is that i US Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 umm, that sounds like a 40g or 50g demension... But I am not really sure, but I can tell you that no tang SHOULD live out its full life in a tank under 6' Long... you are 3' short, sorry Link to comment
benstayman Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 dont worry about it it dont bother me, what about the butterfly/s? Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Sorry no butterflys either... But when you make a reef, you get the corals first, not the fish, fish come last... and you cant stalk a tank for at least 6 months for corals, and clean up crews are important, do you know about those? BTW, Butterfly fish arent good for Reefs, same with angel fish, they nip at corals, sometimes to death... Link to comment
jojopus Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Originally posted by benstayman im confused now thx hehe, its just a rough estimate on the gallons the tank im getting is 3ftx1.5ftx1.5ft how many gallons is that i US ( 36 x 18 x 18 ) / 231 = 50.49 gallons Link to comment
benstayman Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 right well i know that the tank is actually 48"x18x18 which is nearly 70 gallons, how much did u say was minimum for tangs and butterflies was it 75 gallons? Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 75 is min for a Yellow tang, not any of the others you listed... and Butterfly fish are not reef safe... so if you want a reef, you cant have butterfly fish, Do you understand? I would advise you to go to a place called www.reeflounge.com they have larger tanks and can be more specific... Good luck. Link to comment
tinyreef Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I would advise you to go to a place called www.reeflounge.com they have larger tanks and can be more specific... don't be snobby phish! it may be nano-reef.com but we don't discriminate here. eventually our larger bretheren always opt for a tiny one on the side. but u gotta remeber i live in the UK, US gallons are much bigger than ours the image of south park's japanese invasion episode sprang into my mind. i don't trust butterflys(ies?) but many peeps have success. think about your rock layout. that will be key to the livestock, fish or coral. depending on how you go about it, the layout will push you one way or the other to accomodate the animals. which one is more important to you? Link to comment
benstayman Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 well the main fish im after is a golden butterfly fish here thats wot i want out of all of em but im still rlly thinking about what type of tank whether it be reef or fish only Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I wasnt being snobby, I go there too and I know that more people there could answer his quesitons, I helped him as much as I could, I wasnt telling him to go away. Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Well do you like corals over fish, because most of the pretty fish (angels) are not reef safe, same with lionfish not reef safe... Ill get you a good list and put it up for you. Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Hopefully this will help some of you in understanding Tangs and Surgeons for tank sizes, diets, attitudes, and more! Hawaiian Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: The Yellow Hawaiian Tang, also known as the Yellow Sailfin Tang, or Yellow Surgeonfish, has an oval bright yellow body. It is widespread throughout Hawaii to Indonesia and the Great Barrier Reef. A 50 gallon or larger aquarium is necessary to provide plenty of swimming room. It is aggressive towards its own species, or Tangs in general, and it is best to keep only one per tank. If more than one tang is to be kept, introduce simultaneously. In its natural habitat, the Yellow Hawaiian Tang grazes on algae and small invertebrates. In the tank, it needs a varied diet high in beta-carotene and vitamin C, and low in protein matter. To maintain its bright coloration, however, it must keep to a strict herbivore diet to prevent fading. Therefore, the diet of the Yellow Hawaiian Tang should consist of dried and frozen herbivore food that contains marine algae, and vegetarian items such as Spirulina, zucchini, broccoli, leaf lettuce, and dried seaweed. This is a very common, extremely popular, and hardy addition to any fish-only reef aquarium system. Powder Blue Tang (Acanthurus leucosternon) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: The Powder Blue Tang, also known as the Powder Blue Surgeonfish, has an oval body shape with extremely colorful, bold markings. It is prized for its vivid colors and bold markings, with several varying shades of blue accented by yellow and white. Bright yellow highlights the dorsal and pectoral fins, and striking blue-black markings outline the face and tail. A 100 gallon or larger aquarium is necessary to provide plenty of swimming room. It is extremely aggressive towards other Tangs or Surgeonfish, especially those similar in form and color, and should be the only one in the tank except in very large systems: introduce all at once if more than one is to be maintained in the same aquarium. The diet of the Powder Blue Tang should consist of freeze-dried worms, brine shrimp, algae for grazing, and vegetarian items such as Spirulina, zucchini, broccoli, leaf lettuce, and dried seaweed. Blue Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: The Pacific Blue Tang is also referred to as the Palette Surgeonfish, Hepatus Tang, Blue Surgeonfish, and Regal Tang. It is a highly prized, beautiful and long-lived Tang. Like most tangs and surgeons, it is easy to recognize because of the oval body shape and bold markings. It has a deep blue color with a "painter's palette" marking on the body. Pacific Blue Tang requires a 70 gallon or larger aquarium with a number of hiding places and plenty of room to swim. It is tolerant of other tangs, but can occasionally be aggressive towards other Blue Tangs. If housing in groups, introduce all at once into a larger aquarium. It is more susceptible to lateral line disease, fin erosion, ich and other skin parasites than many other fish. Because it feeds on algae, the Blue Tang will help to control the algae in your aquarium. It will also consume other vegetarian items. Achilles Tang (Acanthurus achilles) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: The Achilles Tang, also known as the Red-tailed Surgeon, or Achilles Surgeonfish, is very dark brown to purple. It has bright highlights of white and orange around the dorsal, caudal, and anal fins. A white marking is also present on the gill covers and a striking orange teardrop is found near the caudal fin. The juveniles of this species have an orange marking by the tail in the shape of a streak instead of being teardrop in shape. A 100 gallon aquarium or larger is necessary to provide plenty of swimming room. It is aggressive towards other Tangs and Surgeonfish, but peaceful with other fish. The diet of the Achilles Tang should consist of algae and vegetarian items such as Spirulina, zucchini, broccoli, leaf lettuce, and dried seaweed. Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: The Purple Tang, also known as the Yellowtail Sailfin Tang, Yellowtail Surgeonfish, and the Blue Surgeonfish, is blue to purple in color with a yellow tail and yellow accents on the pectoral fins. This fish was formally known only to the coral reefs of the Red Sea, but it is now found in the Arabian Sea, the Gulf of Aden and in the waters off Sri Lanka as well. It usually lives singly, but can occasionally be found in schools in the southern Red Sea. Adults can reach a size of 10 inches. The Purple Tang is one of the most prized specimens of all saltwater fish for its coloration, and one of the most popular Tangs for the reef aquarium. If housed properly, it is a rewarding and attractive addition to any large fish-only tank, or reef aquarium. If keeping them, be sure to provide good lighting, lots of free swimming space and plenty of potential hiding spots. They can be very aggressive and do not fare well with tank mates of similar body shape, especially other Tangs of the genus Zebrasoma. A 100 gallon aquarium or larger is necessary to provide plenty of swimming room. They will graze on algae in the aquarium as well as accepting other prepared foods both frozen and dried. Purple Tangs need vitamin supplements that are high in beta-carotene, to help prevent lateral line disease. Kole Yellow Eye Tang (Ctenochaetus strigosus) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: Ctenochaetus strigosus is known by many names including the Striped Bristletooth and Goldring Bristletooth. Both C. strigosus and the Spotted Bristletooth (C. striatus) are sometimes called Kole Yellow Eye Tang, Yellow Eye Tang, or Yelloweye Surgeonfish. C. strigosus has an oval body shape with bold markings that change with maturity. As a juvenile, it has a yellow-gold to tan color combined with striping and spots. When matured, the body color darkens, ranging from blue to burgundy. Depending on what part of the world it is from, it can have either a majority of spots or stripes highlighting the body. A 70 gallon or larger aquarium is necessary to provide plenty of swimming room. It is aggressive towards other Tangs, therefore is is best to only keep one per tank. It will not harm sessile invertebrates in the reef tank environment. The diet should consist of frozen herbivore rations, dried marine algae, and vegetarian items such as Spirulina, zucchini, broccoli, leaf lettuce, and dried seaweed. Mimic Lemon Peel Tang (Acanthurus pyroferus) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: The Mimic Lemon Peel Tang, also known as the Mimic Surgeon, or Chocolate Surgeonfish, has a yellow oval body when a juvenile. It has blue highlights around the eyes and gill covers, mimicking the Lemonpeel Tang (Centropyge flavissimus). (Many of the Acanthurus sp. mimic angelfish.) When mature, the body color darkens towards tan with red highlights forming around the eyes and pectoral fins. The dorsal, anal, and caudal fins take on the hues of green but remain tipped with the tan body color. A 70 gallon or larger aquarium is adequate to provide plenty of swimming room. It is aggressive towards other Tangs, Surgeonfish and fish with similar body shapes and color. The diet consists of eating algae and vegetarian items such as Spirulina, zucchini, broccoli, leaf lettuce, and dried seaweed. Blue Caribbean Tang (Acanthurus coeruleus) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: The Blue Caribbean Tang, also known as the Atlantic Blue Tang, Blue Tang Surgeonfish, and simply the Blue Tang, has an oval body with bold markings that change as the fish matures from juvenile to adult. A juvenile is bright yellow with two blue bands at the eyes, and additional blue markings at the fringes of the dorsal and caudal fins. When mature, the blue will become even brighter with markings running horizontally along the entire body. It may have a yellow tail. A 100 gallon or larger aquarium is necessary to provide plenty of swimming room. It is aggressive towards other Tangs and Surgeonfish, but peaceful with other fish. The Blue Caribbean Tang diet should consist of algae and vegetarian items such as Spirulina, zucchini, broccoli, leaf lettuce, and dried seaweed. Whitecheek Tang (Acanthurus nigricans) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: The Whitecheek Tang, also known as the Gold-rimmed Surgeonfish or Whitecheek Surgeonfish, has a purplish-blue body with a small white mark on the cheek between the mouth and eyes. The pectoral, anal, and dorsal fins are dark blue with blue highlights at the tip. The tail is blue with a yellow vertical bar. A yellow striping runs along the body, against the anal and dorsal fins, forming a distinctive wishbone-shaped marking. A 70 gallon or larger aquarium is adequate to provide plenty of swimming room. It is aggressive towards other Tangs, but peaceful with other fish in the tank. The diet of the Whitecheek Tang should consist of algae and vegetarian items such as Spirulina, zucchini, broccoli, leaf lettuce, and dried seaweed. Naso Tang (Naso lituratus) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: The Naso Tang, also known as the Orangespine Unicornfish, darkens with maturity. Naso Tangs from Hawaii are often more brightly colored than those found in other areas. As a juvenile, the Naso Tang from Hawaii is dark gray with a blue stripe following along the dorsal fin and an orange stripe in the anal fin. When matured, the body takes on a reddish-brown tone and the juvenile striping is supplemented with additional color. The tail takes on a lyre shape with a yellow vertical bar towards the back. Two orange patches appear at the peduncle spines near the tail. The face undergoes the largest change. A thin, black mask forms between the eyes and mouth. The mask is outlined with bright yellow and the lips develop a reddish-orange color. A 125 gallon or larger aquarium is necessary to provide plenty of swimming room, and places to hide, with a tight-fitting lid provided to prevent jumping to escape. It is aggressive towards other tangs, but peaceful with other fish in the tank. The diet of the Naso Tang should consist of marine algae for grazing, and vegetarian items such as Spirulina, meaty planktivore preparations, and dried seaweed (brown is best). Sohal Tang (Acanthurus sohal) Doctors Foster & Smith wrote: This fish is also known as the Sohal Surgeonfish and Red Sea Clown Surgeon, and less commonly the Zebra Surgeon, Majestic Tang, Majestic Surgeon, Zebra Tang, and Arabian Tang. It is found in the Red Sea, to the Arabian Gulf, and the Arabian Sea, sometimes in large aggregations, but usually in solitude. These fish commonly inhabit the reef plateau just before the slope, and are generally found in depths of less than 20 meters (65'). Wild Sohal Tang specimens can grow to 16 inches; in an aquarium the adults will normally grow from 7 to 10 inches. The Sohal Tang is hardy, but susceptible to a disease known as Lateral Line erosion, or Hole in the Head. A vegetarian diet high in vitamins, especially beta-carotene can aid in the prevention of development of the disease. Stray voltages are also thought to contribute to this disease and the grounding probe may be beneficial. Sohal Tangs are very aggressive. They should not be kept with other Tangs or Wrasse species. They tend to be well-behaved with old tank mates, but try to kill any new additions. They are only suited for large aquariums with other aggressive fish. They do fairly well in very large reef systems with no other Tangs, and plenty of swimming room. A 180 gallon or larger aquarium is necessary to provide plenty of swimming room. Found scraping for algae in the wild, in an aquarium, they will generally accept most prepared and frozen foods. Foods high in vegetable matter are necessary such as zucchini, broccoli, leaf lettuce, and dried seaweed. The Sohal Tangs are among the most prized fish for the aquarium hobby. The blue outline on the fins and the horizontal body striping render them quite striking. Because of its aggression factor and size, this fish should only be kept by an experienced aquarist with a large reef tank. Well....Hopefully this will or has helped some of you. PLEASE use this post for information on what NOT to buy for your tank if you do not have the right conditions! Don't ever say I don't look out for yall! I always take the time to dig up info for yall Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 The following are the MINIMUM size tanks for the following fish. Each tank catagory will list the type of fish that you can place in them. Take note to save time...each tank above the previous one can hold any of the preivous fish. (Example: 20 Gallon - Fireball Angelfish can be held in every tank 20 Gallons or Larger -BUT- a Tibicen Angelfish needs a MIN of 50 Gallons or larger which is why it is listed under the 50 Gallon tank section.) NOTE: SOME SPECIES ARE NOT COMPATIBLE AND THIS LIST IS ONLY TO SHOW TANK SIZE MINIMUMS! IT IS YOUR JOB TO RESEARCH THE SPECIES FOR ITS COMPATIBILITY AND ITS REQUIREMENTS OTHER THAN TANK SIZE!!! TO SEE IF A SPECIES IS COMPATIBLE GO HERE Compatibility Chart NOTE: All prices are from www.LiveAquaria.com and are to represent the low end to average wholesale/retail cost of that fish. I added them to help give you an idea of what that breed of fish costs. 20 Gallon Fish: Dwarf Angels Fireball Angelfish $ 53.99 30 Gallon Fish: Dwarf Angels Flame Angelfish, Tank-Raised- USA $ 79.99 Yellow & Black Heraldi Angelfish $ 34.99 Banded Multifasciatus Angelfish $ 59.99 Bicolor Angelfish $ 19.99 Black Nox Angelfish $ 29.99 Bluefin Angelfish $ 27.99 Coral Beauty Angelfish $ 24.99 Flame Angelfish $ 38.99 Flameback Angelfish (African) $ 48.99 Lemonpeel Angelfish $ 25.99 Multicolor Angelfish $ 168.99 Potter's Angelfish $ 49.99 Pygmy (Cherub) Angelfish $ 28.99 Pygmy Yellowtail Angelfish $ 23.99 Red Stripe Angelfish $ 24.99 Anglers Striated Tiger Colored Angler $ 49.99 Assorted Angler $ 39.99 Colored Angler $ 54.99 Sargassum Fish $ 29.99 Wartskin Angler $ 149.99 Basslets Black Cap Basslet $ 48.99 Royal Gramma Basslet $ 12.99 Swissguard Basslet $ 88.99 Blennies Molly Miller Blenny $ 14.99 Bundoon Blenny - Tank Raised $ 39.99 Horned Blenny $ 26.99 Horseface Blenny $ 29.99 Harptail Blenny $ 19.99 Filamented Sand Eel Diver $ 29.99 Bicolor Blenny $ 10.99 Black Sailfin Blenny $ 24.99 Canary Blenny $ 14.99 Forktail Blenny $ 11.99 Midas Blenny $ 18.99 Sailfin/Algae Blenny $ 15.99 Striped Blenny $ 15.99 White Blenny $ 15.99 50 Gallon Fish: Dwarf Angels Tibicen Angelfish $ 28.99 Fisher's Angelfish $ 28.99 Interruptus Angelfish $ 699.99 Angels Blueline Angelfish $ 199.99 Anthias Bartlett's Anthias $ 39.99 Ventralis Anthias $ 58.99 Basslets Tobacco Basslet $ 15.99 Boxfish Boxfish (Ostracion meleagris) $ 27.99 Butterflyfish Australian Copperband Butterflyfish $ 65.99 Pelewensis Butterflyfish $ 29.99 Golden Semilarvatus Butterflyfish $ 129.99 to $ 239.99 Heniochus Black & White Butterflyfish $ 33.99 Lemon Butterflyfish $ 18.99 Mitratus Butterflyfish $ 398.99 Orange Butterflyfish $ 15.99 Pakistan Butterflyfish $ 38.99 Tahitian Butterflyfish $ 28.99 Auriga Butterflyfish $ 19.99 to $ 88.99 Black Back Butterflyfish $ 23.99 Copperband Butterflyfish $ 28.99 Double Saddle Butterflyfish $ 29.99 Dot Dash Butterflyfish $ 23.99 70 Gallon Fish: Angels Blue Girdled Angelfish $ 118.99 Flagfin Angelfish $ 79.99 Lamarck's Angelfish $ 24.99 Xanthurus Cream Angelfish $ 33.99 Annularis Angelfish $ 98.99 Conspicuous Angel $ 1,499.99 Anthias Carberryi Anthias $ 19.99 Red Fairy Anthias $ 29.99 Boxfish Cowfish Helmet $ 22.99 Butterflyfish Heniochus Brown Butterflyfish $ 33.99 Latticed Butterflyfish $ 18.99 Raccoon Butterflyfish $ 29.99 Raccoon Fasciatus Butterflyfish $ 69.99 Rainfordi Butterflyfish $ 58.99 Saddleback Butterflyfish $ 24.99 to $ 88.99 Tear Drop Butterflyfish $ 33.99 Threeband Pennant Butterflyfish $ 28.99 Vagabond Butterflyfish $ 24.99 Yellow Longnose Butterflyfish $ 28.99 100 Gallon Fish: Angels Imperator Angelfish $ 128.99 **Show Size $ 899.99 ** Chrysurus Angelfish $ 244.99 Rock Beauty Angelfish $ 28.99 Scribbled Angelfish $ 128.99 Swallowtail Angelfish $ 44.99 Maculosus Angelfish - Tank Raised $ 44.99 Blueface Angelfish $ 118.99 Cortez Angelfish $ 58.99 French Angelfish $ 98.99 Koran Angelfish $ 28.99 Passer Angelfish $ 128.99 Regal Angelfish $ 98.99 Goldflake Angelfish $ 349.99 Watanabei Angelfish, Female $ 69.99 Butterflyfish Falcula Butterflyfish, True $ 28.99 to $ 58.99 125 Gallon Fish: Angels Gray (Black) Angelfish $ 58.99 Anthias Maldives Lyretail Anthias, Male $ 29.99 Dispar Anthias $ 22.99 Fathead Sunburst Anthias $ 58.99 Lyretail Anthias $ 23.99 Parvirostris Anthias $ 35.99 Pictilis Anthias $ 174.99 Queen Tiger Anthias $ 29.99 Squareback Anthias $ 35.99 Boxfish Cowfish Longhorn $ 25.99 Cubicus Boxfish $ 28.99 150 Gallon Fish: Angels Blue Angelfish $ 78.99 Queen Angelfish $ 88.99 180 Gallon Fish: Angels Six Bar Angelfish $ 48.99 Batfish Orbiculate Batfish $ 18.99 Teira Batfish $ 39.99 Link to comment
benstayman Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 That is really really helpful thx a hell of alot dude Link to comment
Phish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 No Problem, just remember those are Minimum sizes for the fish to live happily in a fish tank... not all of those fish are compatable and not all of them are reef safe, and of course that is not nearly ALL the fish you could keep in a tank that size... Good luck. Link to comment
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