Weetabix7 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Alrighty, I'm hoping you guys can help me figure this out. My morning Alk starts out at 7 dKh. I dose B-Ionic and get it up to 8 dKh, but it's back down to 7 the next morning. I understand that Ph fluctuates throughout the day, but Alk shouldn't fluctuate that much, should it? What is likely to be making that kind of dent in my Alk? This has been going on for a while now and I'd really like to get it to a higher level and keep it there. Is it dangerous to raise it to a level of 9 (from 7) so that it will be 8 the next morning and I can gradually get it up? My Current Mg level is 1320, so it shouldn't be a case of low Mg causing low Alk. I am currently dosing B-Ionic but I also have stuff from Seachem's Aquavitro line and a 3 Part (Alk, Ca, Mg) from DT's that I could use instead. Haven't tried the DT's yet. My tank does fine with the Alk and Mg supplements from the Aquavitro line, but seems to react negatively to the Ca supplement, which is why I am using B-Ionic right now. This is for my 20L tank which is a mixed reef. I have a Nano-Remora Skimmer, a Koralia 1, and a MJ400 which seem to give very good flow. Open top tank with 4xT5HO lighting. Only 1 smallish Ocellaris Clown for fish. No crabs or shrimp. 1 Lg. Ancient Astrea, 1 Money Cowrie, a few small snails. I use D-D H2O Ocean Pro Salt. I have a batch of water mixing right now and can test that and post levels later today. Link to comment
Ryan_H Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 is calcium dropping as well? Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 is calcium dropping as well? No. Current Ca level is 380, I'm gradually getting that up as well. Ca level does not drop from one night to the next morning. Link to comment
The Propagator Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Large bio load eating up the alkalinity as they grow. Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Large bio load eating up the alkalinity as they grow. I assume you're talking about corals "eating it up"? Hmm, well here's a list of non-softie corals in this 20L tank: -2 Acro frags -12 Monti frags (normal frag size, not Lg) -3 Monti mini-colonies (not Lg colonies, but larger than frags) -2 unknown sps frags -Lg. Pavona frag -Hydno frag -12 head Acan -10 head Blasto Merletti -Xmas Favia frag -Med. size Brain Coral -1 Small Frogspawn frag, 1 small Torch frag -Lg. 2 head Frogspawn -Lg. 4 head Frogspawn Would that be enough to deplete the Alk in the manner mentioned above? Does that amount of corals in a 20L tank really cause that much of an Alk swing on a daily basis? Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Ok, I just tested and the my freshly mixed D-D H2O Saltwater has an Alk of 9 dKh. Link to comment
dtfleming Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yes all those corals is eating your alk up. To me a mg lvl of 1320 is alittle low. ARe you dosing 1ml per gal of alk? Look at maybe increasing it or splitting the dosage up through the day. Or do the Prop way of dosing ca in the morning and alk at night after lights off. yes it will cause that much of an alk swing. Look at what your have in there that is using ca and alk. Everything use listed is. Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yes all those corals is eating your alk up. To me a mg lvl of 1320 is alittle low. ARe you dosing 1ml per gal of alk? Look at maybe increasing it or splitting the dosage up through the day. Or do the Prop way of dosing ca in the morning and alk at night after lights off. yes it will cause that much of an alk swing. Look at what your have in there that is using ca and alk. Everything use listed is. 1320 is only slightly low on Mg, not much at all, and it will continue to go up as I dose the Ca part of B-Ionic since it has Mg in it. No, I am not dosing 1 ml per day of 2 part, I'm trying find the dosing level needed right now. Today I've dosed 1/2 ml per gal of both parts. I want to make sure that it won't harm anything for me to raise the Alk from 7 dKh to 9 dKh in one day from my B-Ionic dosing. Link to comment
dtfleming Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 doing 1ml per gal is pretty much the recommended dosage. I would try to see if it brings it up one day and see how much the alk drops again. Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 doing 1ml per gal is pretty much the recommended dosage. I would try to see if it brings it up one day and see how much the alk drops again. The bottle says not to dose more than 1 ml per gallon per day and to start out at 1 ml per 4 gallons per day, which gives the impression that 1 ml per gallon is the highest dosage that should be used. Link to comment
bdare Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 You definitely have enough hard corals to match the consuption you are seeing. At this point, because of your livestock, you can safely ignore the instructions on the bottle. As long as you are testing your water (which you are) you'll be fine. I would try dosing twice per day. Maybe once in the morning and another time at night. You can bring your Alk up from 7 to 9, but I wouldn't do it all at once. You could try 1.25 ml / gallon and slowly increase over 2 -3 days till you are gettinge the levels / stability you want. For me it was a HUGE pain in the butt to dose twice per day. If you skip a dose you are screwed. It might be time to pick up a dosing pump. Although spendy, I highly reccomend the Litermeter II. The only maintenance I do now is refill the 1 gallon jugs about once per month. Also... 1320 is NOT low for Mg. NSW is 1280 and the reccomended range is 1280-1350. Ben Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 TY bdare!!! Getting a dosing pump is not really a possibility for me. I think I will try dosing twice a day til I get the Alk up where I want it, then I will see if I can get away with dosing once a day to maintain it. Link to comment
bdare Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Something else which could help is just a home made drip doser... This would allow you to deliver the supplements over a longer period of time... I don't know how much water evaporates in your tank over the couse of a day, but you could dilute the alk supplement in a gallon of RO/DI and let it drip into your tank. Something like the aquadose? I used one for awhile... This could give you a lil more free time as well... Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Something else which could help is just a home made drip doser... This would allow you to deliver the supplements over a longer period of time... I don't know how much water evaporates in your tank over the couse of a day, but you could dilute the alk supplement in a gallon of RO/DI and let it drip into your tank. Something like the aquadose? I used one for awhile... This could give you a lil more free time as well... That's not a bad idea at all, thanks for the input. I'm dreading the next time I take a trip for a few days and have to explain to someone else how to do this! I honestly can't afford to get a doser like the Litermeter right now, but I've always been curious how exactly they work. Can you explain it to me, if you don't mind? Link to comment
bdare Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 That's not a bad idea at all, thanks for the input. I'm dreading the next time I take a trip for a few days and have to explain to someone else how to do this! I honestly can't afford to get a doser like the Litermeter right now, but I've always been curious how exactly they work. Can you explain it to me, if you don't mind? Ever heard of Ron Popeil? He had a saying for one of his products, "SET IT AND FORGET IT!". I'm not sure how I remember that (Good marketing I guess), but that's how the litermeter works. You basically tell it how much fluid you want it to deliver in a 24 hour period and it does. Every so often it comes on and delivers a small amout in equal doses through out the day. Some people get tricky and have it only come on at night (with a timer or controller) to just deliver Alk supplement at night to help keep Ph up. Mine just runs 24 hours / day. It's the best piece of equipment you can have for a tank. IMO it's even more important than a controller... but it's CLOSE. Vacation could be tough... This is why I had to come up with something. My family and I take a trip to Tahoe every summer for 2 weeks. Link to comment
glennr1978 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Try this. It works great, costs 1/10th what a litermeter does, and is pretty easy to do. I'm really surprised more people aren't using it. Mine has been in use for close to a year now without any problems. Link to comment
divecj5 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Try this. It works great, costs 1/10th what a litermeter does, and is pretty easy to do. I'm really surprised more people aren't using it. Mine has been in use for close to a year now without any problems. Thanks for the link Glen. I thought about this a while ago and never tried to implement it. Link to comment
tinyreef Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 agreed with bdare on the dosing. i think it's simply the usage. upping the dosage is less desireable imo than upping the frequency of the smaller dosages. Link to comment
Urchinhead Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yep. Its the corals. And you will need to up the amount. Had this problem myself. Just be careful to add the two part to an area that either has no corals in the area or into the sump as you will get a localized dKH/pH spike from solution that can burn things. Link to comment
glennr1978 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 agreed with bdare on the dosing. i think it's simply the usage. upping the dosage is less desireable imo than upping the frequency of the smaller dosages. wouldn't she still have to up the dosage along w/ the frequency. but i too agree, it's better to break the dosage up into smaller dosages spread out throughout the day (or night in my case). Link to comment
Urchinhead Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Two alternatives to the Litermeter (which I believe is over priced for what you get) are the Profilux two pump unit or a couple of peristaltic pumps and a good digital timer or controller. You could also get away with one pump or for that matter no pumps by adding solution to your RO/DI water. Links: Cheap (relative) peristaltic pump: http://www.aptinstruments.com/Merchant2/me...gory_Code=SP100 Profilux: http://www.cherrycorals.com/equipment/prod...t=35&page=1 Link to comment
glennr1978 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 fwiw, the ph in my tank jumps about .2 each time my dosing pump kicks on and doses for alk. my daily dosage is done 6 times throughout the night. if it were done all at once then theoretically ph would jump 1.2. that may not be terrible since it wouldn't stay that high for very long, but it couldn't be a good thing.. Link to comment
tinyreef Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 glenn, i think she'd be ok for the time-being. the system is dosed to her target point but then recedes after the day. i have to figure a spread out dosing schedule (maybe slightly elevated after working out the kinks) should keep it in a target range. maybe something like currently it's 100ml daily to 120ml thru a drip or dosing pump constantly feeding in. but i agree with you she'll probably have to up it to better zero in on what she's aiming for. adjust for the recoil. Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Try this. It works great, costs 1/10th what a litermeter does, and is pretty easy to do. I'm really surprised more people aren't using it. Mine has been in use for close to a year now without any problems. That sounds like a great idea, thanks Glenn! Link to comment
glennr1978 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 That sounds like a great idea, thanks Glenn! No problem, good luck with it. It does take a few attempts to get the drip rate just right, but after that it really is a "set it and forget it" system. I highly recommend you dial in the drip rate to 5ml. That way you won't have to worry about diluting the 2 part, and when it comes time to up the dosage again you can do so easily by simply resetting the timer to dose for 2 minutes instead of 1, etc.... PM me if you have any questions, I'm glad to help. Link to comment
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