HELP! Ammonia Poisoning Due to Water Change or Type of Water?

[LebaneseDlight]

I have a 34gallon Solana that's been up and running for about 5 months. I have a hair algae problem, my phosphates reading about .35 (and that's with a forest of GHA diluting the readings). I tried dosing Mag to kill the GHA, and that was working to some degree. For some reason, my Dendro was the only coral affected by the mag (it wouldn't open up) - so I stopped that and began dosing Vodka just under two weeks ago. My phosphates have begun declining (read .20 yesterday). I have 4 seahorses and a pair of tank bred black ocellaris and a pair of firefish (I know I'm overloaded). As one would hope, ammonia reads 0 always.

 

About a month ago, I performed a water change. I suspended all the detritus in the water column (making the water cloudy). I also tried moved some sand around, trying to mix it up, in hopes of helping clean some of the cyano I have on my sandbed. My firefish went crazy, swimming erratically, upside down, darting around, and then flipped over and died. All the other fish and corals were fine. I attributed this to releasing toxic gases from the sandbed (I don't have a DSB - it's about 2-2 1/2" deep) or perhaps the stress of the cloudy water and water change commotion. Two weeks ago, I bought another pair of firefish to replace them.

 

Today, I performed a weekly water change. I hand-picked all the GHA I could off the rock work. I blew out all the detritus out of the rocks and suspended into the water column. I replaced the water (salinity and temp were the same as the tank water, but truthfully, I don't check PH of my new saltwater). Immediately, one of my ocellaris begins breathing heavily, loses equilibrium, and is lying on its side on the sandbed. The other ocellaris trying to revive his sick wife. Then the second ocellaris begins acting similarly - but not as bad. I check my trites and ammonia - both at 0. How are they having symptoms of ammonia poisoning without readable ammonia levels in my aquarium?

 

After playing dead a few times, the ocellaris are now back to some form of life. One is doing better than the other, but both are swimming (not lying on the sand bed) but are not swimming completely normal. One is swimming near the surface where I have a powerhead pointed and is still breathing harder than normal (though less heavy than earlier today). They have obviously not regained complete equilibrium. Also, their eyes seem a little more protruded than normal - but not as sever as pop-eye.

 

For my top offs and water changes, I use Purified Drinking Water - the packaging says "Processed with Reverse Osmosis and Ozonated for Purity).

 

Today, I had a photosynthetic (or so it was sold to me) gorg that finally bit the dust (It looked like it was doing great for the last 3 months) - it was decomposing; I removed it just before the water change - the decomposed tissue could have caused a small spike in ammonia that may have not been captured on my reading I suppose.

 

What is going on with my tank? All of my corals are doing great - just some LPS, zoos, rics, dendro, sun polyp, plate, various shroom, xenia - everything is thriving (the gorg was the first coral that bit the dust so far). Can my clowns fully recover (or could there be irreversible gill damage)? And is the "ozonated" reverse osmosis drinking water not what I need?

 

Thanks for reading

[Laura6686]

I have a 34gallon Solana that's been up and running for about 5 months. I have a hair algae problem, my phosphates reading about .35 (and that's with a forest of GHA diluting the readings). I tried dosing Mag to kill the GHA, and that was working to some degree. For some reason, my Dendro was the only coral affected by the mag (it wouldn't open up) - so I stopped that and began dosing Vodka just under two weeks ago. My phosphates have begun declining (read .20 yesterday). I have 4 seahorses and a pair of tank bred black ocellaris and a pair of firefish (I know I'm overloaded). As one would hope, ammonia reads 0 always.

 

About a month ago, I performed a water change. I suspended all the detritus in the water column (making the water cloudy). I also tried moved some sand around, trying to mix it up, in hopes of helping clean some of the cyano I have on my sandbed. My firefish went crazy, swimming erratically, upside down, darting around, and then flipped over and died. All the other fish and corals were fine. I attributed this to releasing toxic gases from the sandbed (I don't have a DSB - it's about 2-2 1/2" deep) or perhaps the stress of the cloudy water and water change commotion. Two weeks ago, I bought another pair of firefish to replace them.

 

Today, I performed a weekly water change. I hand-picked all the GHA I could off the rock work. I blew out all the detritus out of the rocks and suspended into the water column. I replaced the water (salinity and temp were the same as the tank water, but truthfully, I don't check PH of my new saltwater). Immediately, one of my ocellaris begins breathing heavily, loses equilibrium, and is lying on its side on the sandbed. The other ocellaris trying to revive his sick wife. Then the second ocellaris begins acting similarly - but not as bad. I check my trites and ammonia - both at 0. How are they having symptoms of ammonia poisoning without readable ammonia levels in my aquarium?

 

After playing dead a few times, the ocellaris are now back to some form of life. One is doing better than the other, but both are swimming (not lying on the sand bed) but are not swimming completely normal. One is swimming near the surface where I have a powerhead pointed and is still breathing harder than normal (though less heavy than earlier today). They have obviously not regained complete equilibrium. Also, their eyes seem a little more protruded than normal - but not as sever as pop-eye.

 

For my top offs and water changes, I use Purified Drinking Water - the packaging says "Processed with Reverse Osmosis and Ozonated for Purity).

 

Today, I had a photosynthetic (or so it was sold to me) gorg that finally bit the dust (It looked like it was doing great for the last 3 months) - it was decomposing; I removed it just before the water change - the decomposed tissue could have caused a small spike in ammonia that may have not been captured on my reading I suppose.

 

What is going on with my tank? All of my corals are doing great - just some LPS, zoos, rics, dendro, sun polyp, plate, various shroom, xenia - everything is thriving (the gorg was the first coral that bit the dust so far). Can my clowns fully recover (or could there be irreversible gill damage)? And is the "ozonated" reverse osmosis drinking water not what I need?

 

Thanks for reading

 

Wow - that's a lot of information. I never dose my tanks with anything to control anything. When I had GHA I used turbo snails and let nature take its course.

 

I think your tank needs to go through a major healing, a natural healing that comes from weekly water changes etc.

 

To help you better you might want to post some stats for the group to chime in:

 

Temp:

Salinity:

Ammonia:

Nitrite

Nitrate

pH:

Alk:

Calc

How often you change water & what

Lighting schedule (could be part of your hair algae issue)

Feeding how often & what do you feed (again could contribute to hair algae)

Salt - what type? Some are better than others.

 

Also, not sure about that water. My tank does its best with Distilled.

 

Hope things work out soon.

 

PS: This group is great and will gladly answer your questions before you decide to add anything else in the future. Especially something that can cause instant death.

[LebaneseDlight]

Hi Laura - thanks for your reply.

 

Here are some more specs:

 

Salinity = 1.025

Temp = 76-77 (for the sea horses)

Ammonia = 0

Nitrite = 0

Nitrate = <.10

Water Changes = 10-15% weekly

Salt = Tropic Marin

PH = 8.0

 

Thankfully, my black ocellaris pair is doing MUCH better. I would say one is at 100% recovery, and the other at 90%. My firefish have dissappeared - I'm hoping they're in hiding (but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make it - as those ocellaris were HARDY and probably the only reason they survived is that they're great quality tank bred specimens). Clearly, I'm not replacing any fish any time soon.

 

My corals are all doing great too - completely unaffected by yesterday's shenanigans. I'm convinced this is some type of ammonia poisoning, but where would ammonia be coming from in a fully cycled tank that reads 0 ammonia? My water changes will be much more mellow - I will stop turkey basting the live rock and suspending all that crap. Maybe just working the syphon close to the rockwork and pick up crap that way.

 

Needless to say, seeing you fish play dead is NOT a good thing - especially during a quick tank refreshing before your superbowl partay!

[The Propagator]

When you dosed the Vodka you started a brand new cycle.

You're tank is cycling all over again now because the alcohol you poured in there killed off most of the good bacteria, probably burnt the gills on all your fish big time, and caused the re-population of ammonia to finish the disaster job because the good bacteria is no longer there in balance to eat it up.

Vodka is only used in BARE SYSTEMS with no live stock what so ever other then sand and rock to jump start the cycle. Now you have to do major water changes to try and undo what you just did and let the tank recycle.

[BKtomodachi]

When you dosed the Vodka you started a brand new cycle.

You're tank is cycling all over again now because the alcohol you poured in there killed off most of the good bacteria, probably burnt the gills on all your fish big time, and caused the re-population of ammonia to finish the disaster job because the good bacteria is no longer there in balance to eat it up.

Vodka is only used in BARE SYSTEMS with no live stock what so ever other then sand and rock to jump start the cycle. Now you have to do major water changes to try and undo what you just did and let the tank recycle.

wat?

 

No, people dose ethanol on running systems. It provides an available source of carbon for microorganisms. I wouldn't encourage a beginner to do it, but it isn't really dangerous when done correctly.

[The Propagator]

Dud eit is SOOOO much easier just to tell new people not to do it because it is SOOOOoo easy to OD on.

Why do you think I put it all like that. LOL!

The claimed high ammonia levels gives it away the person OD their tank on Vodka.

As you said its not something I would recommend for a newby. I have found it easier to just say no its bad do it the old fashioned way to new comers until they have earned their stripes the hard way and understand the balance of thing better. ( and you cant just does any old vodka in there either. )

[LebaneseDlight]

Dud eit is SOOOO much easier just to tell new people not to do it because it is SOOOOoo easy to OD on.

Why do you think I put it all like that. LOL!\

 

I'm not claiming to be an expert - obviously asking for advice on what went wrong. I can understand saying "be careful dosing vodka," but to say that I'm crashing the system causing a new cycle due to vodka dosing in a non bare-bottom system is pretty lame. I may not have 10 years of experience under my belt, but I think when you read my post it's evident that I'm not a typically uneducated noob who's asking "is it normal for my nemo to swim upside down, and why isn't my water as wet as StevieTs?".... Honestly, it's a little insulting to someone asking an expert for advice to get treated like a "petco sold me an undergravel for my reef tank" noob.

 

I know the vodka is not causing the problem. This identical thing happened a month ago. Both immediately following a water change. I started dosing vodka two weeks ago. I'm very careful not to overdose. I'm using bob fenner's literature on the matter as my main resource. My water quality has improved since vodka dosing (it's only been two weeks), and have already begun to see an improvement in water clarity and GHA.

 

Greg

[Mudfish]

I have a 34gallon Solana that's been up and running for about 5 months. I have a hair algae problem, my phosphates reading about .35 (and that's with a forest of GHA diluting the readings). I tried dosing Mag to kill the GHA, and that was working to some degree. For some reason, my Dendro was the only coral affected by the mag (it wouldn't open up) - so I stopped that and began dosing Vodka just under two weeks ago. My phosphates have begun declining (read .20 yesterday). I have 4 seahorses and a pair of tank bred black ocellaris and a pair of firefish (I know I'm overloaded). As one would hope, ammonia reads 0 always.

 

About a month ago, I performed a water change. I suspended all the detritus in the water column (making the water cloudy). I also tried moved some sand around, trying to mix it up, in hopes of helping clean some of the cyano I have on my sandbed. My firefish went crazy, swimming erratically, upside down, darting around, and then flipped over and died. All the other fish and corals were fine. I attributed this to releasing toxic gases from the sandbed (I don't have a DSB - it's about 2-2 1/2" deep) or perhaps the stress of the cloudy water and water change commotion. Two weeks ago, I bought another pair of firefish to replace them.

 

Today, I performed a weekly water change. I hand-picked all the GHA I could off the rock work. I blew out all the detritus out of the rocks and suspended into the water column. I replaced the water (salinity and temp were the same as the tank water, but truthfully, I don't check PH of my new saltwater). Immediately, one of my ocellaris begins breathing heavily, loses equilibrium, and is lying on its side on the sandbed. The other ocellaris trying to revive his sick wife. Then the second ocellaris begins acting similarly - but not as bad. I check my trites and ammonia - both at 0. How are they having symptoms of ammonia poisoning without readable ammonia levels in my aquarium?

 

After playing dead a few times, the ocellaris are now back to some form of life. One is doing better than the other, but both are swimming (not lying on the sand bed) but are not swimming completely normal. One is swimming near the surface where I have a powerhead pointed and is still breathing harder than normal (though less heavy than earlier today). They have obviously not regained complete equilibrium. Also, their eyes seem a little more protruded than normal - but not as sever as pop-eye.

 

For my top offs and water changes, I use Purified Drinking Water - the packaging says "Processed with Reverse Osmosis and Ozonated for Purity).

 

Today, I had a photosynthetic (or so it was sold to me) gorg that finally bit the dust (It looked like it was doing great for the last 3 months) - it was decomposing; I removed it just before the water change - the decomposed tissue could have caused a small spike in ammonia that may have not been captured on my reading I suppose.

 

What is going on with my tank? All of my corals are doing great - just some LPS, zoos, rics, dendro, sun polyp, plate, various shroom, xenia - everything is thriving (the gorg was the first coral that bit the dust so far). Can my clowns fully recover (or could there be irreversible gill damage)? And is the "ozonated" reverse osmosis drinking water not what I need?

 

Thanks for reading

 

IMHO - you're doing it wrong.

 

These tanks are not little chemistry labs into which you can pour all kinds of chemicals and then just observe the outcome - well, not if you expect a thriving mini-reef. All of this "chasing" after an ideal number, or instantly crystal-clear water, is doomed. The slow and natural way is not only the best way, it's the only way to gain long-term success with nano-reefs. Read the logs of any of the recent TOTMs; read Chris Mark's beginner's articles at the top of each and every one of these web pages. Natural filtration, patience, time allowed for the bacteria populations to establish and balance - all these things are key.

 

Your tank is hugely overpopulated with both fish and invertebrates, especially considering its relatively young age of only five months. And your first reaction to a problem is to 1) dump in a chemical, then 2) buy more livestock. Therein lies the sources of your problems.

 

Laura6686 is correct - "I think your tank needs to go through a major healing, a natural healing that comes from weekly water changes etc."

[supreme_spork]

IMHO - you're doing it wrong.

 

These tanks are not little chemistry labs into which you can pour all kinds of chemicals and then just observe the outcome - well, not if you expect a thriving mini-reef.

 

+1

 

There's too much cataclysmic change going on in this tank day-after day and it's no wonder that things are dying.

 

Stop the dosing, stop f***ing around in there and focus on getting things stable. Massive water changes, digging up gunk from the sand bed, dosing Mag, vodka -- it's no wonder you're in a world of hurt.

[psykobowler]

One of the problems mentioned was with regards to disturbing the sandbed. Why not just put enough sand to make it asthetically pleasing rather than having 2.5" of sand. This way no build up of gases. Plus, it's a solana. Putting too much sand is fugly.

[Laura6686]

Hi Laura - thanks for your reply.

 

Here are some more specs:

 

Salinity = 1.025

Temp = 76-77 (for the sea horses)

Ammonia = 0

Nitrite = 0

Nitrate = <.10

Water Changes = 10-15% weekly

Salt = Tropic Marin

PH = 8.0

 

Thankfully, my black ocellaris pair is doing MUCH better. I would say one is at 100% recovery, and the other at 90%. My firefish have dissappeared - I'm hoping they're in hiding (but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make it - as those ocellaris were HARDY and probably the only reason they survived is that they're great quality tank bred specimens). Clearly, I'm not replacing any fish any time soon.

 

My corals are all doing great too - completely unaffected by yesterday's shenanigans. I'm convinced this is some type of ammonia poisoning, but where would ammonia be coming from in a fully cycled tank that reads 0 ammonia? My water changes will be much more mellow - I will stop turkey basting the live rock and suspending all that crap. Maybe just working the syphon close to the rockwork and pick up crap that way.

 

Needless to say, seeing you fish play dead is NOT a good thing - especially during a quick tank refreshing before your superbowl partay!

 

Could be ammonia like you said, as it can cause a quick death. Post some pics later? Please?

[schang9584]

what color was the gorgonian? can usually tell if they are photosynthetic by their color.

[WhiteShark]

Dud eit is SOOOO much easier just to tell new people not to do it because it is SOOOOoo easy to OD on.

Why do you think I put it all like that. LOL!

The claimed high ammonia levels gives it away the person OD their tank on Vodka.

As you said its not something I would recommend for a newby. I have found it easier to just say no its bad do it the old fashioned way to new comers until they have earned their stripes the hard way and understand the balance of thing better. ( and you cant just does any old vodka in there either. )

 

Not with any old vodka...You mean fish hate aristocrat also? I'm guessing stick with grey goose?

[ximmortaldeathx]

I agree with the others, hold off in the dosing for awhile.

 

also, invest in a RO/DI kit so you dont have to use water which you dont know its 100% pure and it ends up paying for itself in the 1st yr or less.

[The Propagator]

ROck on noobs.

 

I'm gonna sit back and look at my 15 year old reef now.

 

C-ya