What would you pay to have your tank

[Urchinhead]

Like the topic says what would you pay?

 

I saw something very interesting today that is being used to take care of heating/lighting/cleaning/etc a large koi pond. It involves two solar panels that generates 220w of electricity each and a Lithium Ion battery system that can store one (1) kilowatt hour of energy per battery.

 

Cost was about $3,000.00 US

 

Alternative options for this included wind generation as well.

[Pickle010]

I think what you need to do is to bust out a kilowatt cost calculator and figure out your exact power consumption / cost.

 

I have a fealing that it would take many years for you to recoupe the cost of something like that in a traditional home aqaurium.

 

NOW - if you where running a business - several tanks - MH lighting - multiple chillers etc - then it would probably pay for it self very quickly.

 

 

 

But if you are purely looking for peace of mind there are sure some cheaper alternatives - generators.. etc..

[lakshwadeep]

I read an old 2003 magazine article where the tank owner planning to use solar panels to help with his 2000 gallon tank's electricity costs. He used an inverter connected to "deep-cycle gel boat batteries" that would be recharged by the panels.

[pendergraft]

I am in construction and have access to a gas powered generator that would more than run my tank. Cost about 2000.00 plus cost of gas. That would be my route in case of emergency power failure. Just my opinion though. Hopefully it wouldn't be for days on end. I live on a mountain so flooding is not an issue, and not near the ocean so no tidal waves either luckily. That is my backup plan.

[Nick's Reef]

probably a grand at most, being in hurricane territory that would be a huge help, with 3 tanks in our house (12,24,75) our generator can't handle them all. Luckily my ap24 display gets first priority over my dad's 75 because i can power the actinics, heater, and pumps with almost no juice at all. My dad's pumps alone use almost twice what my halide takes up.

[speedbump]

what kinds of power outage are you planning for?

lighting is not something that should be considered for emergency power. the essential items that can have an adverse effect short term (heater/chiller, fans, pumps, etc..) should be on E-power. the tank can survive short term without lighting. other more important items can cause problems after just an hour or so with no power, more so in times of hot or cold weather.

 

without the lighting requirement, your power demand could drop significantly depending on your lamp type making your backup power system cheaper. a simple UPS could prolly provide adequate E-power requirements short term.

 

Now,

if you are looking for long term standby power or off grid power, then thats something a bit bigger and more costly.

 

high intensity lighting is going to suck up a lot of power. a solar powered system would prolly cost far more than you want to pay, even just a "smaller" one only for the tank.

 

off grid systems for homes (at this point is time) are not worth the investment as the payback period is far longer than the average person keeps their home. the up front cost is extremely high and with relatively low energy cost, the payback time is very long.

[Urchinhead]

Not so much planning for an outage as taking the tank off the grid as much as possible and having a backup system that is both green and dependable. I lost my tank to a 30 hour power outage and am very pissed at Edison about it as it was a screwup on their part.

 

For about $3,000 I could get a solar based system that would pretty much take my new tank off the grid as well as provide backup power for other things in the house in the event of an outage on top of for the tank. My new tank would be costing me about $70 a month (F*** you very little again Edison for your 4 tier pricing and no actual metering to see if I really am using 4th tier power at peak times!) to run even with the switch to T5 lighting from MH.

 

This system would provide all the juice I need to run the tank plus make sure what happened last time will never ever happen again with a payback period of 3.5 years. Something to seriously consider as I estimate I lost about $2,000+ in corals, inverts, etc due to tank crash.

[Whacked]

I think it depends on what you want to take off the grid.

If were talking about a nano, or other smaller tank, then a small gas generator could do the trick.

If you have a large system of several hundred gallons, then solar power/whatever would be the way to go. Generally speaking, if your going to have a reef system that large, your not going to be moving anytime soon so it will pay for itself.

[Urchinhead]

I should also mention that the cost included the carpet/floor being cleaned of mold spores thanks to the water overflow.

 

As it turns out Whacked ultimately after what I saw today I believe I can make my whole house solar and off grid for about $15k after rebates. That would include a 12 KwH battery system. Most houses use about 5-8 KwH a day by the way from what I understand. This solution is an interim one that would easily integrate into the one I would go with down the road

 

I have to replace my roof soon so the additional cost isn't all that much in the long term. What with my over all electrical bills being in the $150+ range right now. At that rate it pays for itself in 8 years instead of the normal 20ish that most solar installs do and I get to give the finger to Edison who has to buy excess power if I sell it to them at the Tier 4 Commercial rate of $0.30 an Kw.

[Phixion]

what kinds of power outage are you planning for?

lighting is not something that should be considered for emergency power. the essential items that can have an adverse effect short term (heater/chiller, fans, pumps, etc..) should be on E-power. the tank can survive short term without lighting. other more important items can cause problems after just an hour or so with no power, more so in times of hot or cold weather.

 

without the lighting requirement, your power demand could drop significantly depending on your lamp type making your backup power system cheaper. a simple UPS could prolly provide adequate E-power requirements short term.

 

Now,

if you are looking for long term standby power or off grid power, then thats something a bit bigger and more costly.

 

high intensity lighting is going to suck up a lot of power. a solar powered system would prolly cost far more than you want to pay, even just a "smaller" one only for the tank.

 

off grid systems for homes (at this point is time) are not worth the investment as the payback period is far longer than the average person keeps their home. the up front cost is extremely high and with relatively low energy cost, the payback time is very long.

 

 

This isn't true. I work in the utility industry and come across customers that both have systems that seem pointless to have (the amount they save is a dent compared to the amount their system cost) and then others that will never have to pay us again with how much they generate. So payback isn't as long as you think with the right system, especially if your consumption is higher than most others around you. Sure the upfront cost can be hard to swallow (10's of thousands for a never-have-to-pay your utility company again setup) but after a few to several as in 10 or less years, it'll be well than paid for itself. It's like a RO/DI system, it really doesn't take long for it to pay for itself. And you won't have to worry about an outage except maybe during an eclipse, at night or a super dark cloudy day. Even then you can impliment batteries to store excess produced power to carry you through the night comfortably as if you were still on the grid.

[speedbump]

This isn't true. I work in the utility industry and come across customers that both have systems that seem pointless to have (the amount they save is a dent compared to the amount their system cost) and then others that will never have to pay us again with how much they generate. So payback isn't as long as you think with the right system, especially if your consumption is higher than most others around you. Sure the upfront cost can be hard to swallow (10's of thousands for a never-have-to-pay your utility company again setup) but after a few to several as in 10 or less years, it'll be well than paid for itself. It's like a RO/DI system, it really doesn't take long for it to pay for itself. And you won't have to worry about an outage except maybe during an eclipse, at night or a super dark cloudy day. Even then you can impliment batteries to store excess produced power to carry you through the night comfortably as if you were still on the grid.

 

most people would need to take a loan out to pay of these systems. for us out here in the desert with lots of sun, our systems would cost upwards of 20k+ to run our AC during the summer. then NV Power does not offer a power buy back program so there is no way to "make money" off your solar power and in the winter, you are just wasting it. energy costs here are relatively inexpensive and the payback period is 10+ years (not including tax credits, deductions, or finance charges).

 

using a home equity loan to finance a solar system is the only way this makes any sort of sense to try because it offers extra tax deductions each year. but having to finance a cost of this size otherwise will negate your savings for several years. its basically a car payment. the interest would be $1000's with monthly payments that would more or less just replace your power bill for several years. even if the total payback time is 10 years, that is a long time.

 

now if you have that amount of cash and want to be green and save long term, them by all means. but i have a feeling not too many americans have that amount saved up.

 

as of right now, for many people, the cost/benefit of these systems does not pan out. if it did, every house on the block would have them. as homes become more energy efficient, power cost rise, and the cost of these systems drop, it will become more financially feasible to install one of these systems.

 

also, one should not "remove" themselves from the power grid. these solar systems, including their batteries, should not be considered a "reliable" source of power. there will come times when you will require supplemental power. if you really want to cut yourself off, also invest in a generator. additionally, there are some power companies that will offer to buy surplus power from you and others that might offer credits. so you want to stay connected.

[Urchinhead]

Well put Speedbump.

 

However with the new tech on the way this will become much more affordable. Right now I believe its about $5 to $7 per watt to go solar but with something new coming from Idealab in Pasadena California where you can get 1 Kw generation in a sub 1 meter footprint without the expensive silicone as well as the system being 'beta tested' out your way that reduces the cost to $0.075 per watt due to advances in technology it will be in reach allot sooner in my opinion.

 

Something I need to look into is if I do go with this system do I get to claim the deduction... IF that is the case then it becomes a no brainer in my book as a cmomprorable generator system comes close to the cost and I don't have the headaches of fuel/oil storage.

 

How many of you all would shell out $1,500 in return for being able to run your tank green and without monthly ding to your electricity bill as well as to have an emergency source of energy for limited powering of the house?

[WhiteShark]

I think I'll go to a manual powered bicylce generator...lol

[Phixion]

I definitely would, UH. Idealab, so that's what they do, huh? They are one of my customers. lol! Anywho, for the utility I work for, they DO pay you out for the excess power you generate that you dump back into the grid, then again they require you to be hooked up to the grid with these systems anyways, it's a win/win for the most part. I definitely agree that you don't want to be completely off the grid, as you'll always need or want to have that back-up source. If your system isn't as generative as you'll need, then you'll for sure have to tap into the grid's supply to keep up with your own demands. Really i feel that new build houses should include solar power to some degree. I don't mean a complete $30k+ house running system, but something that will lighten your normal consumption load. Then again what utility would be OK with that since they'd be the ones omn the short end of that deal. Wind power is a great alternative, but price aside, having a turbine in your back yard won't be the prettiest sight around, that's for sure!

[Urchinhead]

I think I'll go to a manual powered bicylce generator...lol

 

Great! When can I expect you? I'll get everything setup all you have to do is come and pedal.

[Urchinhead]

I definitely would, UH. Idealab, so that's what they do, huh? They are one of my customers. lol! Anywho, for the utility I work for, they DO pay you out for the excess power you generate that you dump back into the grid, then again they require you to be hooked up to the grid with these systems anyways, it's a win/win for the most part. I definitely agree that you don't want to be completely off the grid, as you'll always need or want to have that back-up source. If your system isn't as generative as you'll need, then you'll for sure have to tap into the grid's supply to keep up with your own demands. Really i feel that new build houses should include solar power to some degree. I don't mean a complete $30k+ house running system, but something that will lighten your normal consumption load. Then again what utility would be OK with that since they'd be the ones omn the short end of that deal. Wind power is a great alternative, but price aside, having a turbine in your back yard won't be the prettiest sight around, that's for sure!

 

Actually IdeaLab is a startup incubator. One of the business startup's there is in the solar space.

 

http://www.energyinnovations.com/documents..._spec_sheet.pdf

 

For residential:

http://www.sunrgi.com/

 

And special for you Phixion and others in high wind areas:

 

http://bluegreenpacific.com/

[Phixion]

Ahhh! The verticle ones are pretty interesting, ala eggbeater style. I know some areas prohibit them from being installed though, much like how in Pasadena you can't simply just dig your own well and have free water...

 

This is the project I was mentioning to you about back east... 130 turbines, and 468Mw potential!!

[Urchinhead]

Not for the one I posted. Its been ruled as "roof junk" meaning its treated just like a Satellite dish. No permit required.

[sayn3ver]

Ahhh! The verticle ones are pretty interesting, ala eggbeater style. I know some areas prohibit them from being installed though, much like how in Pasadena you can't simply just dig your own well and have free water...

 

This is the project I was mentioning to you about back east... 130 turbines, and 468Mw potential!!

 

i have been in support of off of shore wind turbines for a while, with the condition that the seas remain open and not become sectioned off into coastguarded "no boat zones". I love fishing and I live in NJ where they want to do something similar, but plan on ercting the turbines on quite a few of the popular lumps. I just could not support the cause if they were going to build on the edges of drops, on lumps, etc where the fish are tyically found. Not to mention that the turbine bases would become instant structure for fish. I live in a big enough crap hole as it is, when i am on the water i don't want to deal with the same crap.

[Phixion]

i have been in support of off of shore wind turbines for a while, with the condition that the seas remain open and not become sectioned off into coastguarded "no boat zones". I love fishing and I live in NJ where they want to do something similar, but plan on ercting the turbines on quite a few of the popular lumps. I just could not support the cause if they were going to build on the edges of drops, on lumps, etc where the fish are tyically found. Not to mention that the turbine bases would become instant structure for fish. I live in a big enough crap hole as it is, when i am on the water i don't want to deal with the same crap.

 

I think the other big environmental concern with offshore, is the bird factor with MANY types of birds living along the coast and of course the risk of them flying through the fast spinning blades.

[coolwaters]

make this super sized.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...ry/4224763.html

 

but if theres no wind in your area. try solar panels.

 

i always wanted to know how much power u can generate with a bike power generator. =)

 

i guess the best solution for something that big would be a gas power generator. those things last pretty long