Sump questions

[itzclayyo]

Well, I'm working on the 135, and I have some sump questions. First, let me show you my outline of how I would like it done,

 

 

Questions-

1-What will happen if only 1 of the pumps fails?

2-What will happen if both pumps fail?

3-Once the water line drains down and is bellow the TOP overflow cut-outs, will it stop draining into the sump?

4-Will the bottom overflow cut-outs let water through and eventually build up to drain down into the sump even once the top cut-outs aren't?

 

Thanks.

[neanderthalman]

1. If one pump fails, you'll get a wet carpet.

 

Say the skimmer return pump fails. The refugium return pump continues to operate. This puts more water in the tank, some of which drains into the skimmer sump. Eventually, the contents of the refugium wind up in the skimmer sump. The refugium return pump runs dry and burns up.

 

Additionally, you are in a situation that requires balancing of the pumps even during normal operations. Slight differences will be naturall accommodated by the level in each pump chamber adjusting the suction head on the pumps, but there's only so much that can accomplish. The flow rate through the sump and refugium will have to match.

 

 

2. Both pumps fail, water in main tank drains to the lowest part of the overflow. Some commercial overflows are 2-layer, so they look like there's grates lower down, but there's a solid wall behind it. The water has to go all the way back up and over. The water level will go down to the level of top of the solid wall. If your sumps can handle the added volume, you're fine.

 

Here's a pic, describing aqueon's "megaflow" overflows.

 

 

 

3. See #2

 

4. I have no idea what you're asking.

 

 

Ideas.

 

1.

 

Both drains drain to your sump. A "T" off of one drain feeds into a refugium that has a higher water level than your sump. The refugium overflows into the sump.

 

2.

 

One drain drains to your sump, the other to a refugium that has a higher water level than your sump. The refugium overflows into the sump.

[itzclayyo]

1. If one pump fails, you'll get a wet carpet.

 

Say the skimmer return pump fails. The refugium return pump continues to operate. This puts more water in the tank, some of which drains into the skimmer sump. Eventually, the contents of the refugium wind up in the skimmer sump. The refugium return pump runs dry and burns up.

 

Additionally, you are in a situation that requires balancing of the pumps even during normal operations. Slight differences will be naturall accommodated by the level in each pump chamber adjusting the suction head on the pumps, but there's only so much that can accomplish. The flow rate through the sump and refugium will have to match.

 

 

2. Both pumps fail, water in main tank drains to the lowest part of the overflow. Some commercial overflows are 2-layer, so they look like there's grates lower down, but there's a solid wall behind it. The water has to go all the way back up and over. The water level will go down to the level of top of the solid wall. If your sumps can handle the added volume, you're fine.

 

Here's a pic, describing aqueon's "megaflow" overflows.

 

 

 

3. See #2

 

4. I have no idea what you're asking.

 

 

Ideas.

 

1.

 

Both drains drain to your sump. A "T" off of one drain feeds into a refugium that has a higher water level than your sump. The refugium overflows into the sump.

 

2.

 

One drain drains to your sump, the other to a refugium that has a higher water level than your sump. The refugium overflows into the sump.

 

OK, I understand now, so basically I'm screwed with the 2 sump 2 return idea. I kind of understand your idea #1, but I like the idea of #2. Here is a quick drawup I did of it just to clarify.

 

I have the mega overflow that you pictured, except only 2 inlets, but it has the wall behind them, makes sense now.

 

 

More questions though-

1- How do I control the levels in the sump?

2- Now what happen if the refugium OR main return pump fails?

3- What if both fail?

4- Would the main return pump push water back evenly through both overflows? It has to be to one side or the middle, my stand is a PITA-

 

 

Thanks guys

[xbwolfx]

build a new stand. using two pumps is going to result in problems eventually, imo.

[itzclayyo]

build a new stand. using two pumps is going to result in problems eventually, imo.

 

Unfortanetly that isn't an option. It has the matching canopy which my wife really likes (one of the main reasons I could get this tank) and I don't have the time/ skill/ money to build another matching stand.

[thecowkid]

Your best way to fix this problem and still use your current stand is this.

 

Have two sumps but connect them via bulkheads and pvc pipe. This way you can still have your two overflow/drains drain into one end of one of the two sumps. Then the water will flow through the first sump, through the pipe, then into the second sump. The second sump will hold one return pump.

 

The lower slits on the drains are a flood maker if you dont have the baffle behind the overflow. The water level in the tank will fall to the top of the bottom slits and your gonna have a flooded house.

 

Hope this helps

[itzclayyo]

Your best way to fix this problem and still use your current stand is this.

 

Have two sumps but connect them via bulkheads and pvc pipe. This way you can still have your two overflow/drains drain into one end of one of the two sumps. Then the water will flow through the first sump, through the pipe, then into the second sump. The second sump will hold one return pump.

 

The lower slits on the drains are a flood maker if you dont have the baffle behind the overflow. The water level in the tank will fall to the top of the bottom slits and your gonna have a flooded house.

 

Hope this helps

 

I think I get your idea, and I really like it. But quick question, does it matter if it's pvc or can I just use a buch of extra tubing I have in the garage? So basically, like this?

 

 

q's-

1-Can the pvc connecting the sump and refugium just go straight across?

2-Will the return pump push the water evenly through the 2 overflows?

3-Now is it flood proof?

 

Thanks guys, you've been a big help already!

[xbwolfx]

i don't know the answer to your questions, but i gotta say that the chaeto looks awesome. lol.

[thecowkid]

I would strongly advise you to use pvc. This is mainly due to it being easily glued to bulkheads and the least likely to leak.

 

As long as your two drains drain to the same point it will not matter. They can and will only drain as much as is being supplied to them. So if your pump is pushing 400 gph and your returns are rated at 400 gph then they are both gonna be draining 200 gph. I actually never setup a tank with only one drain. Having two drains makes a redundant failsafe in the system. Oh your pump isnt pushing water through the drains. Gravity is taking care of that for you.

 

Your getting to the flood proof stage. Now you need to do this. The return pump needs to be in its own chaber like you have it drawn. This is for the chance that your pvc pipe gets cloged up. If this happens you dont want the pump to have enough avaliable water to pump that it could overflow the first sump in the system.

 

You asked how you adjust the water level in the sumps. That is determined by the heigh of the baffles that you put into the sumps. The only chamber that will vary in water level is the one that the return pump is in. This is where you can add your auto top off float switches.

 

Hope this helps if not just ask again.