Anyone try a surge device on a 10g

[Maniac]

I have seen several designs for the reverse carlson surge device and am interested in trying it.  I don't want to drill my tank though.   Has anyone tried or is using one?  Thanks!!

 

-Tom

[Jefe12234]

These things are very cool. I thought about buying an acrylic tank in the future and drilling it for 1 or 2 RCSD's. I think they were originally designed to go inside the tank. The problem with this is that the device takes up space within the tank and becomes very bouyant right before the surge. It has to be secured in place very well. Now lots of people build them outside the tank using pvc. The problem with this is that the tank needs to be drilled and the pvc generally cannot hold a large volume.

 

Since you don't want to drill the tank, are you thinking of an internal design? I think the simplest design for you would be to build an acrylic box that would fit in the corner. Then drill a large intake hole on the side near the bottom and a smaller hole just above the larger one to run a pvc airline through. The problem would be mounting the box in the tank. Come up with a secure way to do this and you'll have it.

 

-Chris

[flaunt]

I've actually spent a lot of time this week building a surge device for my 10g, and I've gotten it to where it actually works pretty well.  I set it up to dump about 1/2-3/4 gallon every 20-30 seconds which is plenty for such a small tank.  I had to do a lot of experimentation with a design I found online that uses a toilet flush valve rather than the carlson siphon method, but I think the results were worth it.  Once I make a few modifications to the device and get my rock rearranged around it, I will post pictures.

[Jefe12234]

Hey flaunt, that's Eric Borneman's design isn't it? I experimented with one of those on my 20 gallon tank before I set it up. I was going back and forth on circulation ideas, and eventually it got left out. I've never heard of anyone using one on something as small as a 10 gallon tank before. Can't wait to see the pics.

 

I'm still kinda partial to the RCSD idea. Since it surges in instead of out, you get more of a full tank surge without the high velocity. But if yours looks good, who knows? Maybe I'll have to get back to work on my old one.

 

-Chris

[flaunt]

Jefe,

I have not seen Eric Borneman's name attached to the design... I found it at http://www.aquatouch.com/surge_b.htm and Devon Bolt of this company seems to be taking the credit for it.  He uses a 5 gallon bucket in his implementation, but in mine I reduced this to a rectangular plastic container that holds something like 3 gallons.  I have it set up to fill to about 1.5 gallons before flushing.  About 3/4 gallon gets flushed and the other 3/4 gallon stays in the container.  Thus I added 3/4 gallon to the tank which helped increase the waterline just before surge and also slightly increased the entire capacity of the aquarium.  Adding this extra water introduces the risk of overflow should the flapper fail to close, but I'm not sure how the flapper could get stuck in the open position so I'm not too worried about it.  The reduced container size required the use of slightly smaller pipe sizes, and different floats.  The output runs down to the sandbed where it is teed off and run to each side of the aquarium.  I'm also using an aquaclear 201 powerhead to get the water to the container.  When the device fires, it creates a very nice surge throughout the entire aquarium.  I should have pictures up soon.

 

I'm not familiar with the RCSD idea.  It sounds interesting from what I've read on this thread but I do not find the idea of drilling an aquarium thrilling (as Maniac did not)!

[Delph]

(Edited by Delph at 10:27 am on June 3, 2002)

[flaunt]

OK, I finally have some pictures taken.  There are a lot on this page, so they will take awhile to load.  Please excuse the crappy quality as well as the messiness of the aquarium glass...  I've been moving lots of stuff around and I can't ever seem to not drip water all over the place!    

 

With the exception of the piece in the center, most of my rock doesn't look very good right now.  I need to quit screwing around with it and let the tank settle.  Alright, enough excuses, here are the pictures...

 

This first picture is just before surge.  The white tube in the center is the output of the surge device.  It goes to the bottom and tees off to both sides of the aquarium.  At each end there is a 45-degree elbow.  The powerhead on the left with the tube is putting water into the surge container, while the one on the right isn't turned on right now but might be useful for additional current.

 

 

 

The next three pics are a series of images showing the surge taking place...

 

 

As you can see, the device produces a considerable amount of air bubbles.  I don't think this is a problem though as most of the bubbles are fairly large and they dissipate rather quickly.

 

This first picture shows how the surge device is set up in relation to the aquarium, and the ones after show the device from different angles.

 

 

Here is the device on the floor.  You can see how the output fits into the main body.  The hose that is attached to the front is nothing anymore, it was originally the water input hose, but I since have drilled a hole toward the top on the side of the container to prevent the water from draining back down through the hose in the event of a power outage.

 

 

Here is the tee by itself:

 

 

The following images show views from the front, side, and top:

 

 

Like I said before, the design is basically the same as the one I found online, but it uses a slightly different configuration and pipe sizes.  The pipe sizes I'm using are 3/4" and 1/2".  The floats consist of those tiny spring water bottles that they've started selling in grocery stores.  There's one on the small float and two on the big float.  If anyone will find it useful (i.e. actually use it), I'll draw up some diagrams and try to show how exactly this design is put together.

 

Comments?

 

 

(Edited by flaunt at 9:13 pm on Mar. 13, 2002)

[Jefe12234]

Wow, that is really cool! How often does it surge? Is it powerful enough or too powerful? Your output tube looks perfect for providing good flow without kicking up sand. And it stays hidden pretty well.

 

That design is modeled after Eric Borneman's surge device which he outlined in his book. The only difference is the float system. Eric's just uses a large float connected to the flapper by a flexible line. The one you made probably has a little more lifting power, but it's a little bulkier as well. If you do a search for "Borneman surge," you'll find other examples.

 

BTW, good call on the overflow 4-way fitting (I didn't see that in the design), and moving the water input above the water line. You can never be too careful with these things.

 

-Chris

[flaunt]

Thanks Chris.  I've got it set to surge about every 30-45 seconds.  After tinkering with the adjustable parts (i.e. floats and the position of the flapper pull string) a lot, I've gotten it to where it surges a good amount but not too much.  I did a lot of repositioning of the rock to help break up the flow and also to keep it from kicking up sand.  

 

Well I've never read that book you mentioned, but I'm sure there are many ways to acheive the same effect using a flush valve.  Originally I had intended to make 2 of these with 1 gallon containers (one on each side of the aquarium, alternating) but the design was too bulky, as you mentioned.  Maybe I will take a look at this Borneman design and do it over again (if i feel up to it).    This thing was a pretty big pain in the ass to construct due to all of the experimentation I had to do...  And it also takes a lot of adjustments to get it to work consistently and at the desired output level.

 

I do like having the output tubes hidden, but one bad thing about having them all the way at the bottom is that the thing kind of burps after flushing the water out.  I guess somehow air gets trapped in the tubes and then comes out at the end.  It's not a big enough deal to pull the tubes up to the top, though.

[Delph]

(Edited by Delph at 10:26 am on June 3, 2002)

[flaunt]

Thanks Delph.  I think you need to talk to Chris about that.  

[Taoism]

flaunt,

 

Could you post some plans for that surge device? And in case I am dense and missed something, what size tank are you surging into?

 

 

Cheers,

Tao.

[flaunt]

Tao,

The plans I used are found here: http://www.aquatouch.com/surge_b.htm.  All I did is downsize it slightly to use a 3 gallon rectangular container rather than a 5 gal bucket.  I used 3/4" and 1/2" PVC also.  The floats are just empty water bottles, those miniature ones that you can get at the grocery store.  I'm still tweaking mine to get it to work better, so I don't really have exact dimensions on things right now.