Dersucher Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I have a Galaxy 5 aquarium bought from Wal-mart, that is about to become available for usage (The male betta and guppie have found new homes) It has the light and bio-wheel filtration system that come with it, however, I do not know right off the top of my head the specifics of them. What all would be required, other than what I have already, to get this thing Nano Reef READY??? I am not completely alien to SW, as I currently have a 10 gallon tank with the following: 10 lbs of Live Sand for the bottom 2 O. Clowns (False Percs) They have been quite happy for some time now. Many Tanks.. Er.. THanks. ;-) dave Link to comment
zizmans Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 dood, do you have any rock in your 10? Is it just sand?? Biowheels suck for SW, as well you will need to replace the lighting. Also, power heads for current. Link to comment
Dersucher Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 Right now, it's FW with playground sand for the bottom, and a bit of crushed coral. I have livesand that I can put in it, after its cleaned and everything. What sized powerhead would be suggested for a 5 gallon? I don't want to blow the water around like its in a tornado or anything. The 10 gal with the clowns in it has NO liverock.. Just a 170 GPH powerhead, a mechanical / carbon filter, and a heater. Link to comment
bamann345 Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 An Galaxy 5 is almost like an eclipse 6. I have an eclipse 6 with all the modifications done to it. Check out my site at http://www.nano-reef.com/bamann345/index.htm and it will explain some of these. If you have any other quesions please feel free to email. For water movement, I have a small rio powerhead hooked up to a spray bar and it really helps out a lot!!! Link to comment
skeletor Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by Dersucher The 10 gal with the clowns in it has NO liverock.. so, it's just water, sand and a couple of fish ? -skeletor- Link to comment
zizmans Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Maybe he likes the look of lfs tanks. What are you using for filtration? That is not an adequate home for fish IMO. Most try to pelicate a natural environment. Link to comment
Dersucher Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 The clown tank, yes.... Livesand 16 gallons of water (10 gallons in tank, 6 gallons in sump) 1 small cave like decoration from a LFS 2 O. Clowns (Fake Perc's) Aquatech 5-15 filter 175 GPH Powerfilter 75 watt heater Thats it.. Link to comment
skeletor Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 where is ESPI when you need him ! WTF Dersucher... do you just not care that these fish are happy ? how about making some effort to reproduce a more natural environment for those poor fish.. -skeletor- Link to comment
Dersucher Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 Uhm... Gee... Supply a fish store within 100 miles of me with liverock, and maybe i'll get started on it. Nice way to treat a new person to a hobby as well. I think i'll go elsewhere and learn the ins and outs, hopefully without being so harshly judged by someone expecting me to know all that they know, and have the experience that they have. Link to comment
zizmans Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 There are many reputable dealers that sell LR mail order. Do a google. common price I have seen is 45 lbs for around 150-200, delvered. There amy even be a sponser here that does. Link to comment
skeletor Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 maybe I just expect people to research things before they do them, and not after... if you are going to keep an animal learn about it's requirements before you run out and buy it... at least get some xenia to host those clowns, they will be a lot hapier with a host. ok, that is the last I'll say about your nemo tank. seriously, you are going to need LR. at least 2lb / gal IMO for a reef. you seem to know about LS, get some of that, 5lb or more. you could seed some dead sand from your other tank if LS is not easily available. see if you can find some local reefers with large tanks that can spare a rock or two. you may want to check over at RC too. any local reef clubs ? if you can't find it this way and there are no LFS that carry it then mail order is something worth looking into, it will be expensive but from what some LFS charge for LR you might end up getting a better deal anyway.. First thing to decide is what you want to keep. check out some of the tank pics, and check out some of the deals on corals from the NR sponsors. (start with soft corals and polyps. mushrooms, zoos, xenia, gsp's, that sort of stuff IMO). The type of animals you want to keep will determine many things, the most important being lighting. What is the light it currently has ? how many watts and what color temp ? you'll probably want to upgrade the lighting to something more suitable for a reef, check out some of the retros ppl here have done. do some searching and ask some more questions... you may need to mod the bio-wheel thing to make it more reef friendly, I'm not sure as I have zero experience with those things. do some searches here and I'm sure you'll find something. what are you using as a water source ? is it RO or RO/DI ? you need to have a good source of water. RO/DI is best. you do not want to be adding any phosphates into the water so make sure you have a good source. even the not so good LFS will have RO/DI water, but depending on the store you may want to ask when the cartridges were last changed or get yourself a TDS meter to test the water... get yourself a good cleanup crew for the tank. do some searches, there is plenty of into on cleanup critters. choose them wisely, some snails grow fast and have a tendancy to knock things over in smaller tanks. Next: water movement, do you have enough ? you may need to add a powerhead or two to create some randomish water movement. once again, depends on the animals and how much flow they like... next, depending on what you decide to keep you will need to test your water. get yourself some good test kits (salifert IMO), something like pH, alk, PO4 and Ca to start with. is that enough for now ? -skeletor- Link to comment
Dersucher Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 I apologize for the tone I took.. I did do my research, as well as talking with several people where I work that have SW tanks, and they assured me that I had enough cover for the clowns. The water that I am using is RO/DI water, but I am getting it from a friend, I do not have a filter as of yet. Assuming RO/DI water does not have a /shelf life/, I have roughly 40 gallons sealed up in the 5 gallon water jugs used in the water despencers for drinking water. (Yes, the jugs were well cleaned before any water went in them) For the salt, I used Instant Ocean, and there is appx 1 1/2 ~ 2 inches of livesand in the bottom already... This is all in the 10 gallon tank with the clowns. Maybe also, there was some confusion.. It is not my intent to setup a nano reef in the 5 gallon to house the 2 clowns. They are to stay where they are. As far as something else in the tank to /host/ the clowns, My concerns with getting something of that nature is overloading the tank, due to its small size. I'd rather have the clowns in the tank, with fake vegitation, that overload the biology and degrade their water quality, in an effort to make them happier. If i am amis on this point, please correct me. There is plenty of current, and airation in the 10 gallon as well.. Also, if I may be so bold... Yes, the tank does have 2 clowns in it, but the only member of my family to call it a Nemo tank, is my 3 yr old daughter. I have wanted clown fish since I started watching the Discovery channel and the Learning channel (Many Many moons ago), so may I please not be sterotyped into the "Nemo" crowd? The lighting is inadequate, I know. Its the stock fluorescent light that comes with the light hoods sold at wal-mart, but this is something that I am currently in the process of correcting, as well as following some DIY instruction on the internet for 475 nm led's for /moonlight/ simulation. My intentions are noble, and just, in my opinion. I am not wanting a petco quality overstocked tank setup for looks and commentary by my neighbours and friends... I am wanting a small part of the ocean in my living room. I spend a summer in Florida once, and have ever since wanted something saltwater in my house, since I am No where NEAR a beach. ;-( Many thanks for your advice... Dave Link to comment
skeletor Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Originally posted by Dersucher I did do my research, as well as talking with several people where I work that have SW tanks, and they assured me that I had enough cover for the clowns. I still hope that you can see the difference between keeping an animal alive and reproducing it's natural environment (or something at least close to it) so it can live happily in our little glass oceans. Sure, I can keep my wife alive for years locked in the cupboard under the stairs, as long as I feed her every couple of days she won't die. She won't be very happy tho. The water that I am using is RO/DI water... (snip) For the salt, I used Instant Ocean, and there is appx 1 1/2 ~ 2 inches of livesand in the bottom already... good This is all in the 10 gallon tank with the clowns. Maybe also, there was some confusion.. It is not my intent to setup a nano reef in the 5 gallon to house the 2 clowns. They are to stay where they are. no confussion, everything from my nemo comment down was about the 5gal reef. seems this just turned into two different topics because I don't like the way you keep your clowns. As far as something else in the tank to /host/ the clowns, My concerns with getting something of that nature is overloading the tank, due to its small size. I'd rather have the clowns in the tank, with fake vegitation, that overload the biology and degrade their water quality, in an effort to make them happier. If i am amis on this point, please correct me. You have 16gal of water volume with a bio-load of 2 fish, depending on how often (and how much) you feed them it sounds like a light load to me. since you don't have any LR then yes, you need to be careful but a soft coral will not add to the bio-load. Have you thought about making your own live rock ? garf.org has some great info on making your own agracrete rocks that will eventually become 'live'. What is the configuration of the sump ? have you thought about adding some macro algae and turning it into a fuge ? Also, if I may be so bold... Yes, the tank does have 2 clowns in it, but the only member of my family to call it a Nemo tank, is my 3 yr old daughter. I have wanted clown fish since I started watching the Discovery channel and the Learning channel (Many Many moons ago), so may I please not be sterotyped into the "Nemo" crowd? ok, it's not a nemo tank... and it isn't really the best environment for keeping clown fish. I think you should do more to provide a better home for them. You enjoy having them there to look at, so why not let them enjoy being there The lighting is inadequate, I know. Its the stock fluorescent light that comes with the light hoods sold at wal-mart, but this is something that I am currently in the process of correcting, as well as following some DIY instruction on the internet for 475 nm led's for /moonlight/ simulation. ok, back to the reef tank... check the lighting requirements for any 'must have' corals first. DIY is good, lots of good retro fit stuff out there. LED moonlights are cool... I am wanting a small part of the ocean in my living room. I spend a summer in Florida once, and have ever since wanted something saltwater in my house, since I am No where NEAR a beach. ;-( aren't we all -skeletor- Link to comment
JohnnyMTB Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 I wasn't going to comment, but, damn, WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!?!?! The guy comes asking for help and all you can do is berate him???? When I was a newbie on this site I may have asked some dumb questions, but at least nobody treated me like an ignorant child. Get off you G**damned soapboxes!!! Dersucher - first you need some filtration for the 10g clown tank, go online ( I recomend liverocks.com ) and get 15-20 lbs live rock, also get a hang on filter such as an Aqua Clear or many others. Do the same for your 5.5. IF you want to keep corals, upgrade the lighting, do a search and you'll find everthing from storebought to diy'self. Add some mini powerheads to both setups to increase flow. In my opinion scrap the BioWheel! Link to comment
zizmans Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 What the hell are you talking about Johnny? Was I berating anyone? Did you not read all the advice he was given????? Link to comment
Dersucher Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 Thanks for everyones advice. Skeletor, I put myself in your shoes (as a cat owner.. We have 5 of them)... And i understand your point of view perfectly now. If adding liverock, or some type of anemone to the tank will help the clowns feel more at home, then so be it, it will be done this weekend. With all of the research that i HAVE done, however, I am of the mind to be careful adding anything to the tank to quickly. The ammonia is just now starting to come up, at 1.75 ppm (appx 2 weeks into the cycle) They did enjoy the moonlight I provided lastnight. When I woke up around 5:30 this morning, they were both asleep beside/behind the cave decoration, with the led light shining down on them. ;-). With your assurance (And i feel i can trust your commentary, based on the emotional content), if you think adding 15 - 20 lbs of liverock this weekend would not munge the cycling, I'll take the fake wal-mart cave thing out, and give them a proper home. I am lothe, however, to attempt an anemone yet.. As i do not feel that I have proper lighting on that tank. If, from what I have read, lighting is THAT important to them, It will have to wait a month of so. 50$ or so of liverock is more affordable than 300$ in lighting. Also, I have seen and read a ton of DIY refugium information, but have yet to find one that really explains WHAT they are. Could you lend assistance in that area? Many Thanks Dave Link to comment
sdboogie Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 So here goes my two cents. Kudos to Dersucher for not turning and running full speed. As for the rock thing. Be careful adding rock to your tank. You may want to cure it first in separate container to minimize the impact on your tank. There seems to be a specific order in which to do things and I hope you haven't gone down a path in which you would need to start over to make things right. Opinions are like... There is so much info on how to do this stuff. Don't trust one source. Read the forums, talk to the LFS guys and get a book or two. Then pick something in the middle. I was tallking to a local LFS guy and he recommended not having sand in the tank. And then you read some people have 4 - 6 inches of sand. What to believe? The clowns happiness - You don't have to get an anenome to make the clowns happy. Some corals will satisfy them like xenia. As for the load - The clowns are probably the biggest load on your tank. But live rock and sand will lessen the load. The refugium - A fuge on a nano can be a separate tank or the space in a roomy HOB that contains macro algae, some sand, and small live rock (usually). It is a place that is isolated from your main tank but shares the same water. It's a place where copepods can frolic and run free and eventually go over the falls and be eaten by your tank inhabbitants. It's where all the ugly beneficial stuff that you don't want in your main tank goes to live in peace - free from crabs, snails and fish. Go the the fuge forum to learn more. I hope you're not detered by your experience in this forum. Some people should just stay out of the Beginners forum. And I'm not talking about the beginners. Good advice is no excuse for a bad attitude. Link to comment
TiGs Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Originally posted by sdboogie Good advice is no excuse for a bad attitude. Word! Link to comment
Dersucher Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 Ok, so.... With the nitrogen cycle starting (Ammonia on the rise), would it be a bad thing to add a small xenia? The closest decent SW LFS near me has none in stock, and does not expect any for about 1 week plus.... There are a few places online that I have found, that have it... liveaquaria.com has some for 39.99, but from reading, this coral does not take to shipping to well, and is difficult to acclimate. That, plus 34.99 for overnight shipping, it would prolly be cheaper to wait a week or so, and get it at Kermits Suggestions? Link to comment
audi206rs4 Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 patience is a virtue!!! Link to comment
sdboogie Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 The hard part of this hobby is patience. It's best to wait until the cycle is over. Amonia amd nitrite at zero and nitrate as far under 10 as possible, preferably 0. If you don't wait, you will most likely kill the xenia. Put the rock in and wait for the cycle to finish. You might also post in the Trade forum when the cycle is done for anyone in your area that might have some spare xenia. In a lot of tanks it grows like a weed and people need to prune it to keep it from taking over. Sometimes people dismantle their tanks and are looking to offload their corals. When the time is right, post and see what response you get before forking out $75. It sounds like you live in the stix, but you might also look for an aquarium club in the near cities. They more often than not have frag swaps fairly often. Read the posts on cycling your tank to learn the specifics of what is and will happen. There is no shortage on that info. Remember half the fun is experiencing your tank grow into its potential. A new xenia piece may not be enough for the clowns to bask in but it will grow into that. Link to comment
skeletor Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Originally posted by Dersucher Skeletor, I put myself in your shoes (as a cat owner.. We have 5 of them)... And i understand your point of view perfectly now. sorry for the lack of tact on my part, I'm glad you can now see where I was coming from.If adding liverock, or some type of anemone to the tank will help the clowns feel more at home, then so be it, it will be done this weekend. With all of the research that i HAVE done, however, I am of the mind to be careful adding anything to the tank to quickly. yes, don't mess up all the good work you have already done. They did enjoy the moonlight I provided lastnight. When I woke up around 5:30 this morning, they were both asleep beside/behind the cave decoration, with the led light shining down on them. ;-).isn't it nice to see them happy you think adding 15 - 20 lbs of liverock this weekend would not munge the cycling, I'll take the fake wal-mart cave thing out, and give them a proper home. since your intent is to only keep clowns (with a host ) then 15-20lb's may be overkill. how about building a rock structure on one side of the tank, with a spot for a host on top. you could get away with 3 or 4 pieces of rock. this amount will probably extend the cycle but it shouldn't create to much of a spike. you should wait until the cycle is complete before adding any other animals. I am lothe, however, to attempt an anemone yet.. As i do not feel that I have proper lighting on that tank. If, from what I have read, lighting is THAT important to them, It will have to wait a month of so. 50$ or so of liverock is more affordable than 300$ in lighting. good, clowns will happily host in a range of easy to keep soft corals. Keeping anenomes is a whole other story. Also, I have seen and read a ton of DIY refugium information, but have yet to find one that really explains WHAT they are. Could you lend assistance in that area?very basically it's a method of exporting nutrients from the system. this is done by growing plants (macro algaes) which absorb nutrients from the water as they grow, plus a bunch of other benefits. -skeletor- Link to comment
skeletor Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Originally posted by Dersucher Ok, so.... With the nitrogen cycle starting (Ammonia on the rise), would it be a bad thing to add a small xenia? yes, wait until it's finished cycling.liveaquaria.com has some for 39.99, but from reading, this coral does not take to shipping to well, and is difficult to acclimate.yes, it does not ship well, doesn't mean it can't be done. using a rubber band to attach a foam peanut (or something else that floats) to the the rock before it goes in the bag is the best way to pack softies (IMO). I don't think it's hard to acclimate, but then again I'm an acclimatard so I probably should be giving advice on that subject Suggestions?post here and over on reefcentral.com in the trading forums, you might find a local reefer happy to offload some xenia. always try to get it locally before having it shipped in. if you still can't find any PM me and I will frag my xenia and send you some (at my expense.) -skeletor- Link to comment
chele Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Dersucher, Hi. I'm a bit of a newbie myself.. But there are a few bits of advice I can offer you.. One, wait on an anemone for at least 6 months.. The buggers need a fairly stable environment and will die quickly in a young tank. I killed 2 before someone was nice enough to tell me to wait. Many ppl have SW fish tanks with just sand.. The fish may prefer more in there. But they can be happy with that setup. Especially if they were tank raised in which case tank raised fry are often raised in sand only or completely bare tanks so that they are easier to clean. As for a xenia, try waving hand, it easy to keep, grows like a weed even in bad conditions, is fairly cheap, and clowns tend to host in it just as well as an anemone.. LR provides good natural filtration but it is not the end all, be all of SW tanks. Some ppl forget that many fish live over open sand with no reef structures anywhere near. This isn't the natural case for clowns, but if you want a sand only tank you may want to research fish that live over or in sand only areas of the ocean. Don't let anyone scare you out of here. I got my hinney reamed for asking a question that had been asked before.. My opinion, things change and advice changes so ask again anyway, you may get a different perspective from someone that has tried what your thinking about. Try the trading post here.. Maybe theres someone around who has some LR (if you want it), some books, and or some frags you can get fairly cheap. HTH... Happy Reefing.. Chele Link to comment
TiGs Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Wait till your cycle is complete before adding live stock. Link to comment
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