Dosing ALK. With An ATO?

[xbwolfx]

Im sorry if I missed it, but what is the problem with the ph? is it too low or too high?

who knows? all i know is that it is a 25g fowlr tank and people are saying "drip kalk" and "don't forget about magnesium." imo, they are putting way too much thought into a fowlr tank. a lot of people don't dose anything in soft coral and even lps dominated reef tanks that are close to that size and just rely on weekly water changes to supplement alk, ca, and mg.

 

so basically this is just a thread with a lot of people trying to talk about science....

[xenon]

who knows? all i know is that it is a 25g fowlr tank and people are saying "drip kalk" and "don't forget about magnesium." imo, they are putting way too much thought into a fowlr tank. a lot of people don't dose anything in soft coral and even lps dominated reef tanks that are close to that size and just rely on weekly water changes to supplement alk, ca, and mg.

 

so basically this is just a thread with a lot of people trying to talk about science....

 

My live rock is covered in coraline.

 

That alone will consume alk/cal/mag and ph will suffer as a result.

[xbwolfx]

My live rock is covered in coraline.

 

That alone will consume alk/cal/mag and ph will suffer as a result.

enough to make it necessary to dose in such a small tank that houses zero coral? you really don't think weekly water changes with a quality salt would be more than adequate?

[xenon]

enough to make it necessary to dose in such a small tank that houses zero coral? you really don't think weekly water changes with a quality salt would be more than adequate?

 

I had a 90g FOWLR system and was forced to drip kalk. I asumed the high bioload and coralline was the cause.

 

Water chemistry changes even faster in smaller tanks. 10-20% water changes weekly barely makes a difference.

[tinyreef]

coralline can outstrip ca/alk supplements but typically clams, corals, and algae will grab it first. coralline algae usually is the last to process the available ca/alk.

 

should you supplement? it depends on the setup and your salt content/brand. e.g. if it's IO, chances are you'll need it regardless.

[StevieT]

coralline can outstrip ca/alk supplements but typically clams, corals, and algae will grab it first. coralline algae usually is the last to process the available ca/alk.

 

should you supplement? it depends on the setup and your salt content/brand. e.g. if it's IO, chances are you'll need it regardless.

 

 

fish only tank

[xbwolfx]

fish only tank

[Ryan_H]

as long as your pH isn't through the roof, your fish don't care about alkalinity and calcium. keep the lighting low, do your water changes, and you'll be fine. even instant ocean mixes to 10 dKh alkalinity and 340 ppm calcium, and even rampant coralline algae should be fine with that.

[xenon]

Do any of you have any real world experience keeping a FOWLR tank?

 

I feel like I am talking to a bunch of noobs sometimes.

[xbwolfx]

Do any of you have any real world experience keeping a FOWLR tank?

 

I feel like I am talking to a bunch of noobs sometimes.

yes.

[Ryan_H]

Do any of you have any real world experience keeping a FOWLR tank?

 

I feel like I am talking to a bunch of noobs sometimes.

 

i've got a 29 gallon soon-to-be 120 at home, and about 600 gallons at the store i work at. i only have to scrub algae once a week with 0 CUC and all my fish are fat and happy. you?

 

just because the chemical bottles say they are necessary for fish doesn't make it true. most of is is marketing BS.

[xenon]

This was my 90g FOWLR tank and I was using Instant Ocean salt with 20% water changes every 2weeks.

 

I was forced to add kalk to my auto-top off because water changes were not enough to maintain alk.

 

I am pretty sure the high bioload was the main issue.

 

[xbwolfx]

i just posted this in the other forum, but i'll do it here too.

 

ok. so what would your alk and ph drop to within a week if you didn't dose?

 

just estimate or give a hypothetical answer if you don't know.

[Ryan_H]

This was my 90g FOWLR tank and I was using Instant Ocean salt with 20% water changes every 2weeks.

 

I was forced to add kalk to my auto-top off because water changes were not enough to maintain alk.

 

I am pretty sure the high bioload was the main issue.

 

 

fish don't care, and fish waste doesn't affect alkalinity or calcium. higher concentrations of nitrogenous waste can suppress pH, not mineral content.

[xenon]

fish don't care, and fish waste doesn't affect alkalinity or calcium. higher concentrations of nitrogenous waste can suppress pH, not mineral content.

 

BINGO!

 

That is where you are wrong. I was talking with Randy Holmes Farley about a high bioload tanks can cause alk to drop and he agreed 100%.

 

I would post a link to the thread but the "The Reef Chemistry Forum" on ReefCentral is only 2pages deep.

[xbwolfx]

BINGO!

 

That is where you are wrong. I was talking with Randy Holmes Farley about a high bioload tanks can cause alk to drop and he agreed 100%.

 

I would post a link to the thread but the "The Reef Chemistry Forum" on ReefCentral is only 2pages deep.

ok, so it can cause the alk to drop. which then causes ph to drop. but does it cause the ph to drop enough to effect the fish?

[Ryan_H]

BINGO!

 

That is where you are wrong. I was talking with Randy Holmes Farley about a high bioload tanks can cause alk to drop and he agreed 100%.

 

I would post a link to the thread but the "The Reef Chemistry Forum" on ReefCentral is only 2pages deep.

 

then explain why i have a regular customer who's nitrates in his 90 gallon reef regularly peak at 160 ppm from 4 am drunken feedings and he has no problem maintaining his alkalinity at 12 dKh.

[xenon]

ok, so it can cause the alk to drop. which then causes ph to drop. but does it cause the ph to drop enough to effect the fish?

 

Eventually yes.

[xbwolfx]

Eventually yes.

within a week?

[Ryan_H]

Eventually yes.

 

that would take one hell of a long time. i wouldn't even consider the tank you posted to be heavily stocked, either.

[xenon]

that would take one hell of a long time. i wouldn't even consider the tank you posted to be heavily stocked, either.

 

The amount food I fed those fish daily was the issue.

[StevieT]

then explain why i have a regular customer who's nitrates in his 90 gallon reef regularly peak at 160 ppm from 4 am drunken feedings and he has no problem maintaining his alkalinity at 12 dKh.

 

 

[Ryan_H]

The amount food I fed those fish daily was the issue.

 

 

so this tank was years ago, you can't remember actual water params, and you were making noob mistakes like overfeeding. isn't it possible you just got dooped back then?

 

plus, i feed twice daily at work with pellets and frozen, much of which winds up in the sump system, and have yet to see any issues with alkalinity or even pH. you must have been dumping a TON of food in that tank to be having issues with alkalinity because of it.

[xenon]

Maybe. All I can share with you guys is what I experienced.

 

There is nothing more I can contribute to this thread.

[Ryan_H]

 

haha he's a bartender who enjoys his work a little too much... plus he's a great guy but a little dense to begin with. he's in the store for hours every week asking the same questions lol.