JSalser Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I just did a 5 gallon water change on my BC29 yesterday using Oceanic mixed to 1.026 Here are my test results today Temp 79-80 SG 1.026 KH 6 Calcium 380-400 Ammonia 0 no2 0 no3 0 Phosphate 0 I do weekly 5 gallon water changes, should I start dosing? if so with what? Thanks ahead of time. Link to comment
vangvace Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 What are you keeping in the tank? Do you have an ATO? Link to comment
The Propagator Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 So far it looks as if all you need to dose is alkalinity. Just go to the grocery store and buy some unscented baking soda ( NOT BAKING POWDER ). It is an excellent, safe, and VERY cost effective way to buffer alkalinity. Before I speak to soon though whats your PH reading ? Link to comment
xenon Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 You should never dose alk without dosing an equal part of calcium. That's why they call it 2part. Why are you not testing magnesium? That is just as important IMO. Get some 2part from Kent Marine or B-ionic and dose your tank daily to maintain those levels. Corals require stable water parameters to reach their full potential. Link to comment
The Propagator Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 EL'WRONG'O Right now his alkalinity and calcium is UNBALANCED. Ergo you dose alk only to balance them. You never have to dose them both equally because they will NEVER be used equally at the same time. Theoretically, if his salt kept up at 380 ppm with nothing more then water changes then he would never need to dose calcium only alkalinity. 2 parts are not made to work in conjunction with one another. Not in any way shape or form. The reason they started selling them in 2 part solutions is because those are the 2 most rapidly used elements in your water and hens the things you will be needing to buy the most of. So they package them in a "2 part solution" bundle for convenience only. It has absolutely nothing to do with one activating the other or anything like that. Lets say your calcium is 480 ppm and your alkalinity is 4 dkh. Are you really going to dose an equal part of calcium when its not needed knowing it will OD your tank ? Link to comment
xenon Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I meant they should both be dosed in equal parts once the calcium and alkalinity are ballanced. 2part actually does go hand-in-hand. For every 2.8dkh drop in alkalinity you will automatically get a 20ppm drop in calcium. That is why the sell 2-part. So that you can dose equal amounts of both calcium and alkalinity to keep them both perfectly ballanced. Link to comment
glennr1978 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I meant they should both be dosed in equal parts once the calcium and alkalinity are ballanced. 2part actually does go hand-in-hand. For every 2.8dkh drop in alkalinity you will automatically get a 20ppm drop in calcium. That is why the sell 2-part. So that you can dose equal amounts of both calcium and alkalinity to keep them both perfectly ballanced. I think (part of) what Prop meant is that our systems don't consume Alk, and Ca equally. Therefore, you wouldn't dose equal parts. No? I'm sure he will chime in again though. Link to comment
The Propagator Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Yup. That's what I said. Pretty much word for word. Link to comment
xenon Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I think you are both confused. There is WAY more calcium than alkalinity in saltwater. The concentration level in partA and partB are not the same. That allows you to add equal amounts of both to maintain the balance. Link to comment
glennr1978 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I think you are both confused. There is WAY more calcium than alkalinity in saltwater. The concentration level in partA and partB are not the same. That allows you to add equal amounts of both to maintain the balance. One more time..... If your tank consumes much more Alk, than it does Ca in a 24 hour period, then you wouldn't add the same dosages of each part. Even I get it, and I'm water chem retarded. Link to comment
xenon Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 One more time..... If your tank consumes much more Alk, than it does Ca in a 24 hour period, then you wouldn't add the same dosages of each part. Even I get it, and I'm water chem retarded. It always seems like we consume more alkalinity than calcium but that is only because there is much less alkalinity in saltwater than calcium so it gets used up quickly. The partA (calcium) is not as concentrated as partB (alkalinity). That way you can add equal parts and it will maintain the proper balance. I am getting the feeling that my posts are not clear enough. I don't know how I could explain this any easier. Link to comment
masterbuilder Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Xenon, I understand what you are saying...but... What if I test and my CA/ALK are in balance, 450 CA and 10dKH ALK (balanced). Some time later my tests indicate that my CA is still 450 and my ALK is 8.5 dKH. I would just add the ALK part of the two part to bring my ALK back up to 10 dKH...right. Why would I add any CA? Its already where it needs to be. By the way...this is what my tank does. It sucks up ALK but uses very little CA. It takes two weeks for the CA to drop from 450 to 425 but my ALK drops steadly each day. It even says on the bottle that I should adjust the doseage of each additive to maintain a balanced CA/ALK level. Link to comment
The Propagator Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 No. In actual fact alkalinity is used up more rapidly then calcium. It doesn't matter how concentrated something is your dosing. The end results are still the same. You dose X amount as per directions to reach x desired goal regardless. If X is already at desired goal and Y is low you dose Y not X. It does NOT matter how concentrated the products are or how many parts it takes to equal the same amount of the other. It relies completely on what your readings are as to how much of what type you dose INDIVIDUALLY. If your alkalinity reads 14 DKH and your calcium reads 200 you don't dose the same amount alkalinity to match the calcium your adding. If you do you will FUBAR your tank. Test individually. Dose individually. That's it. All there is to it. Cut and dry I am really trying to help you here. Not argue with you. I just don't want you to tell some one else to follow your way of thinking and make them completely and utterly FUBAR their tank via proxy, and I don't want you to do the same to yours either. Xenon, I understand what you are saying...but... What if I test and my CA/ALK are in balance, 450 CA and 10dKH ALK (balanced). Some time later my tests indicate that my CA is still 450 and my ALK is 8.5 dKH. I would just add the ALK part of the two part to bring my ALK back up to 10 dKH...right. Why would I add any CA? Its already where it needs to be. By the way...this is what my tank does. It sucks up ALK but uses very little CA. It takes two weeks for the CA to drop from 450 to 425 but my ALK drops steadly each day. It even says on the bottle that I should adjust the doseage of each additive to maintain a balanced CA/ALK level. As do 99.9% of captive reefs across the globe ......... I officially give up. I have tried. But the wall is to thick. The way is shut... I suggest you bail out now before you get a head ache too ! Link to comment
bdare Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 The fact is you are both right. The 2-part manufactures create their products to be dosed in equal parts. They do thier best to create products so that they can be dosed in equal parts to meet the demands of our tanks. (XENON) The fact of the matter however is that not all tanks consume both Alk and Ca in the same proportions and thus sometimes the dose of each part must be adjusted to meet demand. (PROP) Link to comment
xenon Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Here are some reasons why cal and alk would not be used up in a balanced way. 1) Incorporation of magnesium and strontium in place of calcium in deposited calcium carbonate. 2) Reduction in alkalinity through partial completion of the nitrogen cycle. 3) Changes in the calcium and alkalinity balance through water changes. 4) Additions of calcium or alkalinity via top-off water. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php Link to comment
bdare Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Here are some reasons why cal and alk would not be used up in a balanced way. 1) Incorporation of magnesium and strontium in place of calcium in deposited calcium carbonate. 2) Reduction in alkalinity through partial completion of the nitrogen cycle. 3) Changes in the calcium and alkalinity balance through water changes. 4) Additions of calcium or alkalinity via top-off water. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php It can also be done just with corals. I've read those same articles and I quote them ALL the time. I'm just saying... When I was having issues with my tank after I first set it up I asked Randy these same questions in the Chem Forum over at RC. Link to comment
xenon Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 You guys started to make me doubt everything that I know about cal, alk so I started a thread on RC to ask if anything I said is correct. A member named "Bomber" in the Reef Chemistry section agreed with pretty much everything I said. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=1482132 Link to comment
bdare Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 You guys started to make me doubt everything that I know about cal, alk so I started a thread on RC to ask if anything I said is correct. A member named "Bomber" in the Reef Chemistry section agreed with pretty much everything I said. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=1482132 I don't see where the descrepency is? Link to comment
xenon Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I don't see where the descrepency is? You guys are saying everything I said in this thread is wrong. I copied and pasted everything I said and Bomber seems to agree with most of it. Link to comment
bdare Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 No one disagrees with you in what you've said except for the fact that tanks can consume Alk and Ca in different ratios. Based on that consuption it may be necessary to adjust the ratio of 2 part that you dose on a regular basis. So far the people that are telling you this know it to be true from personal experience... including myself. Link to comment
shramj Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Since I switched to Oceanic Salt, I haven't had to add any Calcium, just Buff. Well, that is if I keep up with the water changes. Before when I was using Instant Ocean, I had to add both Buff & Calcium. Link to comment
xenon Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 No one disagrees with you in what you've said except for the fact that tanks can consume Alk and Ca in different ratios. Based on that consuption it may be necessary to adjust the ratio of 2 part that you dose on a regular basis. So far the people that are telling you this know it to be true from personal experience... including myself. There seems to be a 5th reason why cal, alk is not used up in equal parts. A "fish only" saltwater aquarium will have a really high alk demand. That means a reef tank that has a really high bioload will also have a higher alk demand. Maybe you guys have too many fish in your nano's. lol Link to comment
bdare Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 6 Fish in my 40B 2 Percula Clows 1 6 Line Wrasse 2 Damsels 1 High Fin Red banded goby. Since I want to be like Glenn I'm thinking about adding a yellow tang. Link to comment
JSalser Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Keeping mainly LPS and softies, no SPS. I check SG and topoff as needed(daily). I forgot to check PH last night but I will check it tonight and recheck alk and cal Link to comment
glennr1978 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Maybe you guys have too many fish in your nano's. lol I'm down to 9 fish, but won't be for long. There will be a few new additions in the coming weeks!! Link to comment
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