It Sucks When your LFS RO/DI water is 316 TDS...

[aparnold]

So now that I've decided to start mixing my own salt water I picked up a TDS meter this a week. A cheep HM digital meter. My water (That I've already used to do 3 water changes, plus ATO for months) Tested at 316 TDS. My Tap water tested at 363. Tomorrow morning I plan on hitting up a few other LFS's to test their water. Is there any way I can confirm that my meter is OK? How often are they bad? If I confirm that the water is really that bad should I let the store know? I haven't seen any algae outbreaks, but I have noticed that a couple of corals were a little picky with the new salt water for a few days after my water change.

 

Here's a link to the original post about switching salt mixes for some background

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=169772

[onefish2fish]

switching salts will yield in changes due to different levels of cal alk mag and so forth found in the salt mix, i wouldnt be suprised if the mineral contents of water held the same concept.. however im not a professional on the topic just a thought.

[Sexy Shrimp]

^ You can't test the TDS of salt water

 

I suspect that your TDS meter is off. My tap water is only 80... Could you not borrow one for a short while off someone local to double check it i calibrated right?

[yardboy]

I don't know what the TDS of water in Burbank is, other than what AParnold has stated, but I do know that the water coming out of my faucet at home in PCB is over 300 ppm, and most of it is calcium, and at least 3 ppm of it is phosphate. Running a RO/DI for awhile, even with regular flushing, causes a buildup of scale on the membrane. I soak it in vinegar to remove the scale, but eventually it still fails, pressure tearing holes in the membrane. Another potential problem is the high chlorine level, which saturates the carbon block and causes destruction of the membrane.

This then results in exhaustion of the DI resin, and what comes out of the RO/DI is exactly what goes into it, bad water. I monitor it with an online TDS meter, and replace resin or/and membrane when needed. I don't buy water from my lfs, but I noticed when I was in there that they don't even have a TDS meter on their system, and it's been running for years with the same membrane and resin! (I know, I asked them) using the same water that I am!

Is it any surprise that my friends get algae outbreaks when they use the lfs water? Just yesterday I gave a buddy 40 gallons to change out his FW tank, which suddenly developed a bad algae bloom!

Maybe your TDS meter is bad right out of the box, but the idea that the lfs is producing good water is not necessarily true. Oh,and a TDS meter can read salt water, it just has to be capable of reading up to 35,000 ppm, which cheap ones can't.

[pismo_reefer]

I don't know what the TDS of water in Burbank is, other than what AParnold has stated, but I do know that the water coming out of my faucet at home in PCB is over 300 ppm, and most of it is calcium, and at least 3 ppm of it is phosphate. Running a RO/DI for awhile, even with regular flushing, causes a buildup of scale on the membrane. I soak it in vinegar to remove the scale, but eventually it still fails, pressure tearing holes in the membrane. Another potential problem is the high chlorine level, which saturates the carbon block and causes destruction of the membrane.

This then results in exhaustion of the DI resin, and what comes out of the RO/DI is exactly what goes into it, bad water. I monitor it with an online TDS meter, and replace resin or/and membrane when needed. I don't buy water from my lfs, but I noticed when I was in there that they don't even have a TDS meter on their system, and it's been running for years with the same membrane and resin! (I know, I asked them) using the same water that I am!

Is it any surprise that my friends get algae outbreaks when they use the lfs water? Just yesterday I gave a buddy 40 gallons to change out his FW tank, which suddenly developed a bad algae bloom!

Maybe your TDS meter is bad right out of the box, but the idea that the lfs is producing good water is not necessarily true. Oh,and a TDS meter can read salt water, it just has to be capable of reading up to 35,000 ppm, which cheap ones can't.

 

...this guy knows his sh*t

[HecticDialectics]

Your tap TDS is right where it should be

http://www.burbankwaterandpower.com/downlo...alityReport.pdf

 

 

Your LFS are just screwing people, badly.

[AZDesertRat]

The TDS meter is probably OK. Southern California like Arizona gets its water from rivers such as the Colorado River via the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California. The TDS and hardness are very high in these rivers and water is not treated for TDs since it is considered an asthetic concern and not a health concern. My Phoenix TDS is 835 so I bought a Spectrapure MaxCap RO/DI system which is the only system designed specifically for these waters. RO only from the MaxCap is between 5 and 6 and of course DI is 0 and for over 800 gallons per cartridge.

 

How are you testing and what are you testing in? Tesing straight from a bucket of plastic container that has been used to mix sallt in or for water changes is not a good idea since there are residuals in the plastic. Always sample straight from the RO or RO/DI unit using a clean clear glass drinking water glass with no soap residue or water spots. Always triple rinse with DI between tests and always put the meter and glass away clean for next use.

[aparnold]

I tested the water from the store in the 5 gallon jug I use to transport the water in. It's only held RO/DI water. The tap water was tested from a glass. I actually did test my tank water just out of curiosity and It didn't even work. But I did look at the water quality report that pismo_reefer posted (THANKS!) and it looks like my water is testing right where it should. I checked a glass of brita filtered water and it tested 230. I also checked the water from the LFS again this morning and it tested at 370 A little higher than yesterday. I'm going to do some investigating today and report back.

[SeeDemTails]

Your LFS are just screwing people, badly.

 

Not only that but they are screwing themselves too....I am sure they use the same water. I hate ignorant LFS's!!!!! Gives all of us bad names. Are TDS is always zero.

 

I would walk right in there with the TDS meter and be like, whats up with this?

[jm82792]

Go to a vending machine(preferably wallmart since they have to change the filters on a regular bassis) that sells water. Make sure they don't add any salt or things that make it taste good(fresh RO water tastes bland). That water is generally good provided that the filters are changed.

Spend 25 cents test the gallon and buy from the machine until you get your own RODI.

If the TDS goes up go to another one. My carnivorous plants need RO water and if they don't they die(I experimented with spring water).

[AZDesertRat]

I am sure So. Cal is like Arizona and has Water & Ice type stores everywhere. I alwys go to a manned Water & Ice store if I have to buy water for any reason. Vending machines are famous for bad maintenance since there are no health regulations requiring any. the only thing tested in most places if the quantity through the Dept of Weights and measures not the quality.

The stores are usually more than happy to test the TDS or conductivity for you and the ones near me get the TDS from 800-1000 down to 7-12 which is very good for RO only in the quantity they make every day. With a vending machine it may be good today and crap tomorrow and you never know unless you have a meter and test it yourself.

[aparnold]

F*CKING STUPID ASS FISH STORE!!!! I am so pissed right now... Here's a heads up.... DONT get your water from AQUARIUM WORKS in North Hollywood, California. I will post my story in the retailer feedback forum for sure.

 

Long story short, it turns out that it was the water from the store being bad, but even worse they KNOWINGLY sold me bad water. I found a nice water store down the street from me that had an industrial sized RO unit. I tested their water and it came in @ 02 TDS. So I know my meter works now. I'm so pissed. I drive down to Aquarium Works with a gallon of good water, and my meter. I let Steve (One of the owners) know that I think they have a problem with a filter. I have them pour some water and test it with my meter and then I show them the good water I had to prove that the meter works. What I get is a story about how they've been having problems with their filter and that They knew the TDS was high and they were trying to get it down to 100 TDS WTF?!? 100???? THEY KNOWINGLY SOLD ME WATER THAT WAS BAD.... Maybe this explains the corals being unhappy and a recent algae bloom.

 

This whole situation sucks even more because I really liked Steve and Jose (The other owner). They were always friendly and helpful, but because of this incident I doubt I'll be able to continue doing business with them. Bad advertising is a lot cheaper than good and this situation IS a perfect example. I would love for somebody to head over there and see if they sell them some water too. Steve told me that he was going to flush his tank and clean his membranes but it probably a little too late for that. They're not the only fish store in the neighborhood.

 

WORD TO THE WISE: WHEN PEOPLE TELL YOU NOT TO TRUST THE LFS, HEED THE ADVICE. My story is a perfect example of what happens when you do. Thank god I didn't loose a whole tank because of this.

[AZDesertRat]

Absolutely nothing replaces having your very own RO/DI system, that way you and only you control the quality of the water in your system. After all the single largest ingredient in a reef tank is water and everything in that tank depends on the quality of that water. Don't skimp, do it right and you never question yourself if it was the water or not that caused a problem you may have.

[Steel]

Just FYI, an acceptable threshold for human drinking water is 500 mg/l. Most fish can safely tolerate TDS of 1,000 mg/l or more.

[AZDesertRat]

There is no acceptable number for humans. The EPA and health organizations consider TDS an asthetic risk and not a health risk so there is no real number. 500 is kicked around in some circles but its a meaningless number since TDS does not represent anything in particular, only that something electrically conductive is present in the water. Lots of places exceed 1000 or more, heck here in the east Phoenix, Mesa/Chandler area it averages over 1200 every day and often hits 1500. Mine in the west Phoenix averages 835-850 most of the time. If you measure TDS in a saltwater tank it will easily surpass 32,000 or more.

[aparnold]

Absolutely nothing replaces having your very own RO/DI system, that way you and only you control the quality of the water in your system. After all the single largest ingredient in a reef tank is water and everything in that tank depends on the quality of that water. Don't skimp, do it right and you never question yourself if it was the water or not that caused a problem you may have.

 

 

I agree, although I live in an apartment, and I have a wife who doesn't like more crap lying around the house. This new Water place is right down the street within walking distance and only 30 cents a gallon so I can live with it.

 

Just FYI, an acceptable threshold for human drinking water is 500 mg/l. Most fish can safely tolerate TDS of 1,000 mg/l or more.

 

 

That's good to know. I didn't have any problems with fish, just corals...

[The Propagator]

If any of you even keep fish in a tank using 500 mg/l fresh base water I'll smack ya !

 

THE ONLY way I would ever use RO/DI water is from my own unit sitting in my utility room.

even a CHEAP $58.99 100gpd dual DI unit off Ebay will get you at least down to 9 ppm using their filters and resin for Christ sake. SO then what you do is go visit a quality RO/DI maker - seller website like buckeye field supply and purchase a good Membrane, and good DI resin.

BAM your set. You just turned a $90 shipped unit into a $230.00 unit for a total cost of a round $160.00.

AND you dont have to trust so shmuck at the LFS or the grocery store for the life blood of your aquarium.

[Airborne]

F*CKING STUPID ASS FISH STORE!!!! I am so pissed right now... Here's a heads up.... DONT get your water from AQUARIUM WORKS in North Hollywood, California. I will post my story in the retailer feedback forum for sure.

 

Long story short, it turns out that it was the water from the store being bad, but even worse they KNOWINGLY sold me bad water. I found a nice water store down the street from me that had an industrial sized RO unit. I tested their water and it came in @ 02 TDS. So I know my meter works now. I'm so pissed. I drive down to Aquarium Works with a gallon of good water, and my meter. I let Steve (One of the owners) know that I think they have a problem with a filter. I have them pour some water and test it with my meter and then I show them the good water I had to prove that the meter works. What I get is a story about how they've been having problems with their filter and that They knew the TDS was high and they were trying to get it down to 100 TDS WTF?!? 100???? THEY KNOWINGLY SOLD ME WATER THAT WAS BAD.... Maybe this explains the corals being unhappy and a recent algae bloom.

 

This whole situation sucks even more because I really liked Steve and Jose (The other owner). They were always friendly and helpful, but because of this incident I doubt I'll be able to continue doing business with them. Bad advertising is a lot cheaper than good and this situation IS a perfect example. I would love for somebody to head over there and see if they sell them some water too. Steve told me that he was going to flush his tank and clean his membranes but it probably a little too late for that. They're not the only fish store in the neighborhood.

 

WORD TO THE WISE: WHEN PEOPLE TELL YOU NOT TO TRUST THE LFS, HEED THE ADVICE. My story is a perfect example of what happens when you do. Thank god I didn't loose a whole tank because of this.

 

Okay. So I went over to Aquarium Works right after you posted your thread. Guess what...Steve refused to sell me RO water and they immediately shut down the sales of their RO water. Futhermore they said they were going to have to deal with Kent Marine whom sold them the Filtration System. Why don't you redirect your anger towards the Manufacturer as opposed to bashing or in this case (Libel) Aquarium Works. Steve and Jose are upstanding guys who took immediate corrective action. The admirable thing and I can guarantee you it wasn't becuase you called them out on it. I'm elated that you are shopping other LFS. Look at your original post, it states I quote you, " It Sucks When your LFS RO/DI water is 316 TDS....My life sucks...Or does my meter ". I can answer this one for you, guess which one I pick. Your life sucks.

 

Go to Ralphs and get Glasier water that measures 10ppm TDS. And I will shop at Aquarium Works. As they are honest and easy to deal with. You seem to have gone off the deep end. With that attitude, who would want your business or in this case your pennies! Save them for a rainy day.

[Marteen]

My tap water comes in around 35-66ppm TDS according to the latest survey by NYCDEP.

[DAGrkMix]

F*CKING STUPID ASS FISH STORE!!!! I am so pissed right now... Here's a heads up.... DONT get your water from AQUARIUM WORKS in North Hollywood, California. I will post my story in the retailer feedback forum for sure.

 

Long story short, it turns out that it was the water from the store being bad, but even worse they KNOWINGLY sold me bad water. I found a nice water store down the street from me that had an industrial sized RO unit. I tested their water and it came in @ 02 TDS. So I know my meter works now. I'm so pissed. I drive down to Aquarium Works with a gallon of good water, and my meter. I let Steve (One of the owners) know that I think they have a problem with a filter. I have them pour some water and test it with my meter and then I show them the good water I had to prove that the meter works. What I get is a story about how they've been having problems with their filter and that They knew the TDS was high and they were trying to get it down to 100 TDS WTF?!? 100???? THEY KNOWINGLY SOLD ME WATER THAT WAS BAD.... Maybe this explains the corals being unhappy and a recent algae bloom.

 

This whole situation sucks even more because I really liked Steve and Jose (The other owner). They were always friendly and helpful, but because of this incident I doubt I'll be able to continue doing business with them. Bad advertising is a lot cheaper than good and this situation IS a perfect example. I would love for somebody to head over there and see if they sell them some water too. Steve told me that he was going to flush his tank and clean his membranes but it probably a little too late for that. They're not the only fish store in the neighborhood.

 

WORD TO THE WISE: WHEN PEOPLE TELL YOU NOT TO TRUST THE LFS, HEED THE ADVICE. My story is a perfect example of what happens when you do. Thank god I didn't loose a whole tank because of this.

 

 

First off. After reading your child like rant about the water quality of Aquarium Works I've come to the conclusion that they don't need a customer like you. I have been a customer with Aquarium Works since they opened and I myself understand that there are things you sometimes over look or they just happen, which is upsetting and I understand how you feel. I also understand good customer service. Jose and Steve have gone out of their way to help myself and others with their tanks,probably more then what they need to. I have been in this hobby since I was 10, starting with a fish only tank and now I am 29 and have a reef system that they helped put together. I have met some real A**Holes in this hobby who try to sell you garbage you don't need or give you the wrong information about how to maintain your tank. Aquarium Works is not one of these stores. I have received nothing but help and everything they have advised to try or do has been right on the money.

 

Now being a person who owns his own business I understand there are things that happen and that are unfortunate that make you look bad. But you have to try your best to re-gain the confidence of your customers back. I know for a fact that they tried that with you. I came in right at the end of this whole situation and Steve felt horrible and stopped the sell of RO right after you had left (not to mention pumped all the water out.) I have never seen Steve that upset or worried before. But for you to post something so harsh and go out of your way to make these two guys look like they don't know what they're doing, when all they have been is helpful, just blows me away. You said in your forum "This whole situation sucks even more because I really liked Steve and Jose (The other owner). They were always friendly and helpful, but because of this incident I doubt I'll be able to continue doing business with them." Do you understand your little post can damage the reputation of a business that two guys have tried their hardest to make work in an economy like ours? I think you owe them an apology, just the way they apologized to you. Also, if you don't trust your LFS try to open your own store and see how well you do. As for me saying "They don't need a costumer like you." I say that because you wrote something so badly about people you said "YOU LIKED." Sh!t! I could only imagine what you think or write of people you don't like. You're an angry person my friend and you probably need a hug or maybe even a new hobby. You should try being a part time film critic, it would suit you better.

[r20crazy]

SCNRS had a BBQ/frag swap at this place. the club would not support a store with bad business practices, much less invite all its members there. Chit happens, all it takes is one spent/failed component in a ro/di system to cause such numbers, and when you make as much water as LFS do that sell water as well as use it, it can happen quickly

[fish_chips]

I agree with dag and r20... Steve and Jose are outstanding business owners/people. really helps ppl out... they *want* me to bring in corals that are outgrowing my frag disc so they can mount it on a bigger plate. FREE OF CHARGE!!!

[disaster999]

i can see where the OP is coming from. hell i bet anyone here would not be please to find out their LFS knowingly sold bad water to customers.

 

at least the store for admitting something is wrong with their water and seized sales of their water. i would ask for a refund on the bad water they sold or free refill next time you go. if the shop is as helpful/friendly as everyone said it is, it shouldnt be a problem to them...its only a few cent a gallon.

 

the OP might of over reacted a little bit, driving an hour to confront the store just to find out they know they have a problem already. i wouldnt let something this small let you cross out an LFS off your list. they are fixing the problem.

[jeremai]

Same as the other thread - everyone has made their points, no sense bickering. Smart shoppers will make up their minds themselves, hopefully after visiting the LFS.