auto topoff question

[rc3479]

Having major evap. issues with solana and wondering what everyone recomends for an ato as far as a good brand or diy???

[rc3479]

anyone??

[neanderthalman]

ATO's are one of the easiest DIY projects out there, whether you decide to go with a gravity feed system, or a floatswitch based arrangement.

 

If you want a prefab solution, look no further than the Tunze Osmolator. Great device. I hear nothing but good things about it. It's essentially a floatswitch style ATO, meaning that it will activate a pump to force water into your tank. The difference is that it uses an optical sensor for main control, with a floatswitch as backup. Obviously, a prefab solution is the most expensive and least fun.

 

The next one down is the floatswitch based DIY. In it's simplest format, it's a floatswitch spliced into the power cord of a powerhead. This is not safe. In order to do this DIY safely, you must use a low-voltage relay to control the pump, with the floatswitch operating the coil of the relay. I think howstuffworks.com has a good explanation on relays if you're not familiar with them. This style can have a higher failure rate due to the complexity, but this can be mitigated through the use of a backup floatswitch and installing snailguards made from pill bottles (or similar).

 

The lowest tech solution is the varying flavours of gravity feed ATOs. Some use a knotted airline to slowly drip water into the tank, while others use various vacuum break methods with a well-sealed container. The key downside is that the ATO reservoir must be placed higher than the tank (or sump), and this sucks large. The slow-drip ATO's also need to be tuned, and performance will change with temperature and especially humidity.

 

For detailed instructions for the DIY versions, search the DIY forum. There is also a sticky with links to the good DIY threads of ages gone by, which undoubtedly contains a few ATO threads.

[rc3479]

thanks

[jpluttme]

+1 for the Tunze Osmolator. I like the comfort of both an optical and float switch.

 

Also comes with a pump that I don't really notice coming on since it's in a cabinet.

 

thanks

[uwwmatt]

I use a tsunami ato, works fine for me. I probably would have done a DIY project, but I won it at a raffle.

[glennr1978]

top-off.com I use the "basic", Can't beat it for $40.

[bad ed]

top-off.com I use the "basic", Can't beat it for $40.

 

+1 on the top off.com. Its so easy to set up that a caveman can do it.

[VDub90]

Tunze Osmolator, by far the best piece of equipment I have ever bought for the tank.

[neanderthalman]

+1 on the top off.com. Its so easy to set up that a caveman can do it.

 

 

 

 

 

+1 though

[Zombo]

From the topoff.com site:

Hello Valued Customers,

 

Due to personal challenges, we are forced to discontinue manufacturing and selling our products. Currently we plan to reopen around the first of the year with several new products. We look forward to the introduction of these new and improved products. Thanks for your loyalty to our products.

 

Trey Clanton

Top-Off.Com

 

[k.tran]

tunze osmulator works great, it has the electronic sensor and if it fails it has a check valve, it costs more but you can never go wrong with german engeneering

[xenon]

ATO is not something you wanna skimp out on.

 

Imagine something goes wrong and you pump the whole reservoir into your tank at once. Not only will you get a small flood but the salinity in your tank will drop huge and you will crash your tank. Think about how much you have invested in corals/fish and how much it would cost to replace everything.

 

Tunze Osmolator is the only one I would touch.

[AZDesertRat]

I use Spectrapure's Ultra Precise Level Controller II myself. Simple to operate and bulletproof.

http://www.spectrapure.com/liquid_level_controllers.htm

[SPS20]

Tunze Osmolator is the only one I would touch.

 

+1

 

There is quite simply no other option that even approaches the reliability of the Osmolator. NOTHING.

 

If you want the best, get the Osmolator.

[neanderthalman]

+1

 

There is quite simply no other option that even approaches the reliability of the Osmolator. NOTHING.

 

If you want the best, get the Osmolator.

 

 

Sure there is.

 

DIY your own setup, but incorporate three optical switches from three manufacturers, and utilize best two out of three voting logic. Then have the signal to start the ATO pump not only turn the pump off, but open an electrically operated isolation valve. Use a valve that will fail closed on too low of a signal, as well as too high of a signal. Don't forget to add in a timer relay to shut down the pump after a few seconds, so that if your reservoir is empty, you don't burn out the pump, and if there is a leak in the hose, it will not drain the container on the floor. Better yet, make it two timer relays in series so that a failure of one timer relay will not prevent the automatic shutdown of the ato unit.

 

Next, incorporate performance monitoring for the pump by way of an orifice plate and differential pressure transucer. This will not only allow for monitoring of pump life during operation and detect fouling, but also can be used as another backup - if the pump signal is on, but there is no flow measured, the ato shuts down. You'll need to program a small delay, but that's not a big deal.

 

Program this all into two redundant computer systems with an external hardware watchdog and automatic switchover routine, so that if one computer fails, the other can take over. In the event of a monitored malfunction, have the computer email you, call your work phone, your cell phone, your home phone, update an RSS feed with critical tank statistics, as well as a 128dB siren and red strobe light.

 

That would do the trick.

[devmasa]

Sure there is.

 

DIY your own setup, but incorporate three optical switches from three manufacturers, and utilize best two out of three voting logic. Then have the signal to start the ATO pump not only turn the pump off, but open an electrically operated isolation valve. Use a valve that will fail closed on too low of a signal, as well as too high of a signal. Don't forget to add in a timer relay to shut down the pump after a few seconds, so that if your reservoir is empty, you don't burn out the pump, and if there is a leak in the hose, it will not drain the container on the floor. Better yet, make it two timer relays in series so that a failure of one timer relay will not prevent the automatic shutdown of the ato unit.

 

Next, incorporate performance monitoring for the pump by way of an orifice plate and differential pressure transucer. This will not only allow for monitoring of pump life during operation and detect fouling, but also can be used as another backup - if the pump signal is on, but there is no flow measured, the ato shuts down. You'll need to program a small delay, but that's not a big deal.

 

Program this all into two redundant computer systems with an external hardware watchdog and automatic switchover routine, so that if one computer fails, the other can take over. In the event of a monitored malfunction, have the computer email you, call your work phone, your cell phone, your home phone, update an RSS feed with critical tank statistics, as well as a 128dB siren and red strobe light.

 

That would do the trick.

 

 

That sounds like a super easy DIY...and cheap too

[xenon]

Sure there is.

 

DIY your own setup, but incorporate three optical switches from three manufacturers, and utilize best two out of three voting logic. Then have the signal to start the ATO pump not only turn the pump off, but open an electrically operated isolation valve. Use a valve that will fail closed on too low of a signal, as well as too high of a signal. Don't forget to add in a timer relay to shut down the pump after a few seconds, so that if your reservoir is empty, you don't burn out the pump, and if there is a leak in the hose, it will not drain the container on the floor. Better yet, make it two timer relays in series so that a failure of one timer relay will not prevent the automatic shutdown of the ato unit.

 

Next, incorporate performance monitoring for the pump by way of an orifice plate and differential pressure transucer. This will not only allow for monitoring of pump life during operation and detect fouling, but also can be used as another backup - if the pump signal is on, but there is no flow measured, the ato shuts down. You'll need to program a small delay, but that's not a big deal.

 

Program this all into two redundant computer systems with an external hardware watchdog and automatic switchover routine, so that if one computer fails, the other can take over. In the event of a monitored malfunction, have the computer email you, call your work phone, your cell phone, your home phone, update an RSS feed with critical tank statistics, as well as a 128dB siren and red strobe light.

 

That would do the trick.

 

That sounds so simple. Let me go do that right now.

[neanderthalman]

Oh, so now you want a simple DIY?

 

 

 

In all honesty, an optical sensor is not any more reliable than a floatswitch. One just costs more and is used for marketing a product as "better".

[devmasa]

In all honesty, an optical sensor is not any more reliable than a floatswitch. One just costs more and is used for marketing a product as "better".

 

I always thought that it was the optical sensor that made the Tunze Osmolator so much more reliable than any of its competitors...hmmm

 

Also...what is the general verdict about JBJ ATO system ?

[neanderthalman]

The sensor itself eliminates a few failure modes, but it requires a more complicated controller - more complication means more failure modes. The sensor can introduce some new ones as well, depending on the details.

 

That's not to say that the osmolator isn't a good unit, but to say that it's more reliable is a bit of a stretch. A well built floatswitch ATO is just as good, but you need to have the skill and knowledge to build it well. If you're not a handy person or familiar with electricity, then you should buy a prefab unit, hands down, and if you're going to go that route, get the tunze. No need to spend any more than that.

 

For starters, you should never DIY a floatswitch based ATO without snailguards and and a second backup floatswitch that never contacts the water. Not using a relay is equally stupid. That right there eliminates the most common failure modes. Just like any other equipment, you should clean and maintain it regularly. That takes care of all but the most exotic failures, which would also affect the osmolator so you're no further ahead.

 

Now, the osmolator is nice that it keeps the sensor out of the water, but you still need to clean it - salt creep can screw with the sensor just like algae can screw with a floatswitch.

 

If you run 120V directly through a single floatswitch without a snailguard, splicing directly into the power cord of the pump and never clean the thing, then yeah, you're just asking for trouble.

[SPS20]

Ok, after all that, i'll amend my statement.

 

There is no more reliable off the shelf system than the Osmolator. I have used four different (off the shelf) ATO systems over the years, and my experience has been that none of them keep the water level so stable as the Osmolator, and the solid state curcuit that drives the optical sensor is very solid.

 

Yes, I know I am biased, as I use an Osmolator, and love it. However, my bias is informed by a fair amount of experience with various systems. My decision to purchase the Osmolator was bourne of frustration with other ATO systems, and a mistrust of critical systems reliant on moving parts immersed in saltwater.

 

(My last float-switch based system failed on me due to a calcareous tubeworm growing on the switch mechanism, causing it to nearly kill all my corals.)

[Phixion]

Ok, after all that, i'll amend my statement.

 

There is no more reliable off the shelf system than the Osmolator. I have used four different (off the shelf) ATO systems over the years, and my experience has been that none of them keep the water level so stable as the Osmolator, and the solid state curcuit that drives the optical sensor is very solid.

 

Yes, I know I am biased, as I use an Osmolator, and love it. However, my bias is informed by a fair amount of experience with various systems. My decision to purchase the Osmolator was bourne of frustration with other ATO systems, and a mistrust of critical systems reliant on moving parts immersed in saltwater.

 

(My last float-switch based system failed on me due to a calcareous tubeworm growing on the switch mechanism, causing it to nearly kill all my corals.)

 

At least you've had experience with other systems, and not just basing your preferance on the ONLY system you've ever owned unlike most others on here. Myself I've only owned the JBJ and I highly recommend it, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the best not having used others like the Tunze... You have a better defense to actually say which system is best having owned 4 different ones. I will however be purchasing the Aquahub semi DIY system very shortly here. I hope it'll serve me as as well for my 10g tank as my JBJ has for my 30g tank.

 

I always found it odd that Tunze uses a floatie for backup, have you ever wondered about that as well?

[geekreef_05]

tunze osmulator works great, it has the electronic sensor and if it fails it has a check valve, it costs more but you can never go wrong with german engeneering

 

+1

 

I have two of them (one for each of my tanks). its an awesome product. its the best thing for a nano if your going into SPS at any time.

[AZDesertRat]

I'll take Spectrapures air sensor over both optical and float switches any day.