0 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate for 2 days?!

[berv]

Hello everyone,

 

Just started my tank around 2 days ago, placed live sand/rock(cured), etc., tested the water after 48 hrs and 0 everything... tank ain't starting to cycle yet? Sterile rocks/sand? Faulty kit? Thanks in advance for the input!

[thebrainbot]

What kit do you have?

 

Everything could be dead. Or the LR/LS could have already had all the die off happen. As I understand it, the cycle takes a little while to happen.

[berv]

Hi brainbot, it's an API test kit, aquarium pharmaceuticals i believe... I'll test again when I get home tonight. I was expecting an ammonia spike....

[The Propagator]

False readings. Another couple days it will begin it cycle again.

You may not have a normal cycle though due to already having live sand and cured rock, but I would fully expect a small one UNLESS all the live sand and rock came from an established tank and you also used at least half of the old water ?

[berv]

False readings. Another couple days it will begin it cycle again.

You may not have a normal cycle though due to already having live sand and cured rock, but I would fully expect a small one UNLESS all the live sand and rock came from an established tank and you also used at least half of the old water ?

 

 

That's what I am thinking... just fighting the urge to stock... have to remember what happened to my 1st fresh water tank and my school of neons 15 years ago. A massacre.

[bagoegg]

If you used cured rock, you may not have a cycle. Since day 1, I have not registered any amm or nitrite. Even so I waited 2 weeks before adding any livestock just to make sure and I added very slowly after that.

[redfishsc]

Ditto the above.

 

You have to have a source of ammonia to get ammonia going, and well-cured, healthy live rock and sand will likely produce very little ammonia. So now you have a couple options if you keep getting 0 ammonia.

 

 

1) Add a critter. I don't like using fish, I actually prefer using a cheap crab (when I lived in Charleston SC I just went and caught a few local crabs from a tide pool). A big hermit will work fine. Feed him lightly.

 

2) Buy a small bottle of household ammonia and do a "fishless cycle". You MUST buy straight ammonia--- it is always clear and does not bubble/suds if you shake it. I've done this on a LOT of tanks-- fresh and salt. The trick is to start out at a safe level. If you had NOTHING in your tank, I'd say dribble in a few drops, check ammonia levels later to make sure they are sky-high, and then sit back and relax until the cycle is over (assuming you have a filter going that can build a bacterial colony). Do a big water change and add happy critters

 

----- SINCE you have live rock, you need to start very, very carefully this way but it's still fairly easy. Mix up one cup of tankwater and put in 1 drop of ammonia. Put HALF of this cup in your tank. Check ammonia an hour later after it's well mixed. If it's not reading much, add a whole drop. You have to "sneak" up on a high-yet-won't-kill-the-rock ammonia level.

 

----The REAL benefit to this method: cheaper, and produces No by-products other than nitrate---- meaning no phosphate, etc... like you'd get from cycling with an animal.

 

3) The last option and another easy one. Put some fish food in your tank, preferably just a small hunk of raw meat like shrimp. Leave it and let it rot. For a nano, this means something the size of a cigarette butt. Who knows, you may find all sorts of animals coming out of the rock to eat the stuff at night.

As it decays (or eaten by bristleworms etc..) it will produce ammonia.

 

 

 

Either way, pick your method and don't let it get out of control. I am very partial to #2 because I've done it before and produces NO organic by product other than nitrate. But if you are afraid you'll boil your tank with ammonia overdose, use #1 or #3. They will all work.

 

Keep the water moving, btw, it really speeds up the cycle.

[hazmat]

I bought totally cured rock and sand when I started my tank and never had ammonia or nitrites. I did have nitrates get up to about 20 and then come down. I think total time was about a week or so. I still didn't put anything in my tank until week 3 though. And then it was only the CUC.

[ddr_phish]

You can always use urine in your tank to start the cycle.

[berv]

Redfish: I will probably do option 1 if nothing changes.

 

 

Hazmat: The LFS actually said that they set up a tank before, waited like 24hrs and with everything zero, placed a fish, no ill effects for several days then went on adding stuff. BUT he told me to wait for a week or so, give him a water sample, just to be sure.

 

Ddr_phish: I was actually thinking about the same thing... hmmm, but if i am taking some meds... not a good idea..

 

Thank you for the help everyone! Appreciate it! Will probably do option 1 by redfish but with a snail.

 

72 hours: It's still 0 with all parameters. pH is between 8.0 and 8.2. Should i be worried about this?

[ddr_phish]

Yep I used urine to start my frag tank. Good call on the medications though, never thought about that, good thing I haven't taken anything in a while.

[redfishsc]

Yep I used urine to start my frag tank. Good call on the medications though, never thought about that, good thing I haven't taken anything in a while.

 

Hey, ever consider bottling that and selling it for folks to cycle their tank?

[Sergeant-G]

I started my tank 6 days ago I didnt have any trites trates ammonia or phosphates on day 3 and my ph was at 8.0, at day 5 I tested again and my ammonia and trites had elevated. I am gonna wait and keep testing, oh and my rock was from a well cured bin at phishy buisness and I used LS.

 

Casey

[berv]

Yeah, I am just going to wait... learned my lesson well from the neon tetra massace 15 years ago, as well as the ramirezi massacre 10 years ago.. Just for the heck though, will put in a couple of hermits maybe this week.

 

I am going to bottle the urine, just thinking of a preservative to lock in the ammonia freshness!

[HankB]

Ditto the above.

 

You have to have a source of ammonia to get ammonia going, and well-cured, healthy live rock and sand will likely produce very little ammonia. So now you have a couple options if you keep getting 0 ammonia.

 

 

1) Add a critter. ...

 

2) Buy a small bottle of household ammonia and do a "fishless cycle". ...

 

3) The last option and another easy one. Put some fish food in your tank, ...

I respectfully disagree. The whole point of the cycle is to balance the bioload in your tank with the bacteria that constitute the biofilter. This will happen whether or not you have any detectable ammonia in your tank. It only requires live rock or sand to inoculate the bacteria. It would even happen without live rock but would take longer (and you wouldn't get pods etc.)

 

If the LR and LS comes from an established tank and is handled carefully, there will be minimal die off and likely no detectable ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. There will still be enough detritus in the rock to feed the biofilter.

 

Regardless, once you have reached this state, you need to proceed with stocking. The key idea is balance. With no bioload, the biofilter will be fragile. Add bioload slowly over a period of time to allow the balance to reestablish itself following each addition.

 

In fact, I did "feed the tank" when starting ours, but that was well after we had begun stocking CUC and corals and was done to help condition the biofilter for the anticipated addition of fish.

 

I have recently started another tank using rock from an established tank and water from out other tank. In two weeks time I have not detected ammonia/nitrites/nitrates. Initial stocking included two snails that came with the rock and after two weeks of settling, I have started adding a few corals. I have no immediate plans to add fish.

 

Good luck with your tank!

 

-hank

[bagoegg]

I respectfully disagree. The whole point of the cycle is to balance the bioload in your tank with the bacteria that constitute the biofilter. This will happen whether or not you have any detectable ammonia in your tank. It only requires live rock or sand to inoculate the bacteria. It would even happen without live rock but would take longer (and you wouldn't get pods etc.)

 

If the LR and LS comes from an established tank and is handled carefully, there will be minimal die off and likely no detectable ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. There will still be enough detritus in the rock to feed the biofilter.

 

Regardless, once you have reached this state, you need to proceed with stocking. The key idea is balance. With no bioload, the biofilter will be fragile. Add bioload slowly over a period of time to allow the balance to reestablish itself following each addition.

 

In fact, I did "feed the tank" when starting ours, but that was well after we had begun stocking CUC and corals and was done to help condition the biofilter for the anticipated addition of fish.

 

I have recently started another tank using rock from an established tank and water from out other tank. In two weeks time I have not detected ammonia/nitrites/nitrates. Initial stocking included two snails that came with the rock and after two weeks of settling, I have started adding a few corals. I have no immediate plans to add fish.

 

Good luck with your tank!

 

-hank

 

+100000

[redfishsc]

I respectfully disagree. The whole point of the cycle is to balance the bioload in your tank with the bacteria that constitute the biofilter. This will happen whether or not you have any detectable ammonia in your tank. It only requires live rock or sand to inoculate the bacteria. It would even happen without live rock but would take longer (and you wouldn't get pods etc.)

 

If the LR and LS comes from an established tank and is handled carefully, there will be minimal die off and likely no detectable ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. There will still be enough detritus in the rock to feed the biofilter.

 

Regardless, once you have reached this state, you need to proceed with stocking. The key idea is balance. With no bioload, the biofilter will be fragile. Add bioload slowly over a period of time to allow the balance to reestablish itself following each addition.

 

In fact, I did "feed the tank" when starting ours, but that was well after we had begun stocking CUC and corals and was done to help condition the biofilter for the anticipated addition of fish.

 

I have recently started another tank using rock from an established tank and water from out other tank. In two weeks time I have not detected ammonia/nitrites/nitrates. Initial stocking included two snails that came with the rock and after two weeks of settling, I have started adding a few corals. I have no immediate plans to add fish.

 

Good luck with your tank!

 

-hank

 

 

Actually I would agree with you, you are exactly right. I think the fundamental difference in what you described with what I described was the size of the bioload that the tank can handle after cycling (not that you would ever want to dump a dozen groupers in a cycled nano or anything).

 

With the method you mention, the bacterial count would only handle the very small increments you describe without a huge spike in ammonia.

 

With the methods I posted, you will be starting out with a massive bacterial "colony" (especially with the ammonia-dosing method) that would be able to handle a pretty sizeable bioload to begin with---- i.e. the biofilter would be "overkilled" by intent.

 

 

Now the reality is I have set up and cycled a couple dozen tanks (fresh, salt, and one nano) this way, but most of them other than the nano were fish/invert type tanks with no live rock, which were using a DIY biofilter.

 

And I think it all comes down to patience and self-control when browsing the LFS. I have a very hard time holding back and not just loading up my tank, which is rarely a good idea in any event.

 

Edit: used the wrong word in a sentence that made no sense whatsoever.

[berv]

have to remind myself regarding the neon tetra massacre 15 yrs ago, followed by moe, larry, curly (3 rams) 10 years ago, and jack and jill(2 kribensis) 8 years ago... notice a pattern... ? this year, it's gonna probably be hermits if I can't control myself! control..control.. gotta focus, play ps3

 

Seriously, thanks a lot guys, appreciate the info!!!!

[The Propagator]

Just remind your self how beautiful it will be if you take your time and do it the right way the 1st time around.

[redfishsc]

have to remind myself regarding the neon tetra massacre 15 yrs ago, followed by moe, larry, curly (3 rams) 10 years ago, and jack and jill(2 kribensis) 8 years ago... notice a pattern... ? this year, it's gonna probably be hermits if I can't control myself! control..control.. gotta focus, play ps3

 

Seriously, thanks a lot guys, appreciate the info!!!!

 

 

Spend your time by checking your water parameters throughout the day to see how they vary. Very educational and informative, especially pH. I don't think other parameters will fluctuate throughout the day but pH can, particularly if you have a heavy bioload in the tank (or perhaps during the cycle).

 

For example, check your pH every 2 hours for a day or two and write down the time and pH. Watch and see if the pH drops overnight and rebounds the next day when the lights come on.

 

 

 

Just picture your tank as a bucket of battery acid if you find yourself in the LFS looking at critters. At the WORST you should buy a critter and ask the LFS to hang onto him for a couple weeks for you. Some do this, some don't.

[berv]

Thanks for everything guys, Nitrate is at 5ppm, NH3 and NO2 are nil. Will test the tank with some hermits. For the temp and pH, at this point, I think there's no other way but to buy an aquacontroller or something like it that can log in the temp and pH per unit time, hope the weather here gets cooler... so I can forego the chiller for now.

[The Propagator]

Got a fan on it ?

Evap will help cool as well and some time make up for a chiller...

Whats the temp staying at right now ?

Below 82 F ? If its 82 F or below I wouldn't even sweat it.

[berv]

On warm days, it's 85 with lighting on, for cool days, it's around 79 so it's ok. I tried the fan thing, it's 83F on a warm day but the evap rate of the water is just astounding. 2 Liters or more I believe. The hermits I bought from the LFS were inactive but upon placement in my aquarium, they wouldn't stop foraging, it's like their activity level boosted by 300%. Will wait for a week before adding anything else.

[Sexy Shrimp]

The problem with adding ammonia from an external source is you need to do it every day or the bacteria will die off due to decreased ammonia. Same goes with a "normal" cycle with live rock die off - if you wait too long after the end of the ammonia/nitrite spike your bacteria will decrease creating another cycle when you do finally add fish. It's a balance between not adding them too soon and taking to long over it