Muggz Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Has anyone heard of a water pump that can switch between forward and reverse flow (i.e., pump water from Aquarium A to B, and then switch to pumping water from B to A)? Link to comment
supernip Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 because of the way the magnetic shaft is, no. not when attached between two tanks like that. A propeller based powerhead like a tunze nanostream can run in the opposite direction but it's not what you're looking for. Link to comment
Muggz Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 because of the way the magnetic shaft is, no. not when attached between two tanks like that. A propeller based powerhead like a tunze nanostream can run in the opposite direction but it's not what you're looking for. Thanks, Supernip. I'm trying to design a "Tidal-tank", but the most important piece I need doesn't seem to exist. Link to comment
scottyreef Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 well i image its possible to build something like what you need but I am guessing it wont be cheap but here is a cheap low cost way of making a tidal tank in the link below it explains the Reverse Carlson Surge Syetem i used this system years back when i was in college and mony was short it worked very well and theres no moving parts. the one de talks about is big but it can be DIY'd pretty small take a look http://www.petsforum.com/cis-fishnet/seascope/00SS1705.htm Link to comment
Muggz Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Interesting article Scotty. Although, I'm not sure that would achieve what I'm trying to do... The system they're talking about is simply to create a large water surge within an aquarium. It doesn't provide a separate "sump" area (the mangrove tank I'm trying to design). The idea behind this tank would be to create the most simple biological fitration system possible. It would involve only one mechanism (the pump), that could automatically switch between one flow direction and the other. Of course other powerheads would be installed in each side of the tank to create additional flow. Ultimately, both the reef side of the tank, and mangrove side become display tanks... the hidden "sump" is completely eliminated. I would think such a pump must exist somewhere... I just don't know how to search for it. The Aquaclear 50 and 70 powerheads have a reverse flow tab, but I don't think there's a way to automate it. Link to comment
Sen Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 It exists: It's called Polario Link to comment
vangvace Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 It exists: It's called Polario But doesn't work for what the OP wants to do... interesting product though Link to comment
Muggz Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 It exists: It's called Polario Hmm... could work. Do you think it's possible to rig tubing on either side? Looks like it has a 3" diameter, which isn't unreasonably large. Has anyone used a Polario? Link to comment
Muggz Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 I've researched the Polario some (a little $$$)... but seems it may be possible to hook it up inline... although I can't find anything that says that directly from the manufacturer. Link to comment
BKtomodachi Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 It looks to me like a functional powerhead. ie something not meant for the pressure of a closed loop, and definitely not the head loss of a return. Link to comment
jeremai Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 iirc, it was originally designed to be used in conjunction with a closed loop, and there's video somewhere of it acting as such from a convention a few years back. eta, here's a pic: Link to comment
Muggz Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 iirc, it was originally designed to be used in conjunction with a closed loop, and there's video somewhere of it acting as such from a convention a few years back. That's exactly what I'm looking at doing! It's hard finding detailed information on the Polaris though... I read somewhere as well that it can't actually be used on an external closed loop like they show in your photo... but that was based on a guy selling his. Information on it from the actual manufacturer is very limited - it would be so much easier if they just said in the product details "can be used for in-line applications" or "cannot be used for in-line applications". Also, it seems it can only switch directions every 15 sec to 30 mins. I wonder if they have a controller that allows longer time between switching directions.... Link to comment
SPS20 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 The polaris is prop based, and as such will NOT operate well under any kind of back pressure. I would try to move away from the idea of "pumping" water back and forth, and look into surge systems instead. Try 2 carlson-style surge tanks above the two display tanks, fed by a pump in an oversized common sump, shared by the two tanks. Drill the two display tanks such that they have two drains in each, one high in the tank near the rim, and one as low in the tank as possible. Plumb both drains from each tank to the shared sump. Put a gate valve inline on the lower of the two drain lines in each display tank, and use it to throttle back the outflow from the tanks such that they don't just drain as rapidly as they fill when the carlson surge devices empty into the displays. The drain lines coming from near the surface are for safety, so that neither display can overflow in the event that the lower drains become clogged. Your sump would need to be large enough to hold the combined volume of both display tanks and the surge tanks. If you fail to do so, you will either end up with the pump sucking air, or the sump overflowing. A bidirectional pump isn't a good solution to this, IMO, and the Polaris will not be up to the task of pushing water against any kind of head pressure, which it would need to be able to do. You could also try two pumps (one in each tank), with each plumbed to deliver water to the other tank. Place the two pumps on a relay/oscillator of some sort such that they switch back and forth at regular intervals. Drill a hole in each of the two tanks, near the top, plumbed together. This would prevent either pump from running dry, or either tank overflowing, and would make the consequences of not getting the timing 100% right a little less dire. I think the surge system I described would work better, as any system which requires pumps to be switched on and off frequently is doomed to failure in the long run. Eventually one or the other pump will fail to start, and it will probably happen while you aren't home, killing the exposed inhabitants of the tank which would remain mostly empty in the event of a pump failure. I hope this helps, - Josh Link to comment
Muggz Posted September 26, 2008 Author Share Posted September 26, 2008 Thanks Josh... I'm not sure I can visualize the first option you've suggested, but I get the second. I think that would be an excellent alternative (and probably for a lot less $$$). I also probably wouldn't have to plumb a drain to either side as long as I have a dividing wall that's lower than the top of the tank. Essentially you're suggesting I add a second line to the design where I would use two pumps instead of one bi-directional one? Even with both on or both off there shouldn't be any issues with spill over the tank as long as there's a shorter dividing wall... Link to comment
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