audi206rs4 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 the more i read, the more confused i am... i'm fairly new to the hobby and i'm learning that it's information overload, which is fine, but... so much of the info is contradictive. i swear! 1). live sand is good, live sand is bad. well... which is it? well i went with about 13lbs. of ls (12lbs. in my 10 gal. w/ 1lb. in my 2.5 fuge/sump). so i hope i made the right decision... 2). do i put the the live rock in first and surround it with ls or vice versa? i heard that you should put the rock in first and have the sand support it's base. but then again that would cause dead spots in the tank and that brings us right back to number 1). should i have ls at all? then i've heard that you should put the lr on top of the ls so that the sand shifter, detritis eaters can shift through the sand below the lr. well... which is it? hmmm... 3). anenome or not in my 10 gal. i've heard that some species split and i can just keep giving/selling those away and that it would stay relatively small and be okay in my 10 gal. tank... i'm actually leaning towards not getting one just to be safe, but they look so cool. so where i'm going with it? thanks guys and gals!!! please help!!! Link to comment
Physh1 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 1) Live sand is very good. Tons of bacteria aerobic and anaerobic (i'll get to that in a second). Yes, you made a good decision. You would be fine with whatever sand you bought but live sand has numerous advantages over dry stuff. 2) Personally, I do prefer to setup my rock and then fill around w/ my substrate. Why? You usually get a better foundation for your rock. There has been less shifting of rock in my experiences doing it this way. I've also set some up the either way (sand first then rock). I usually needed to do some rock adjusting w/in the first few days/weeks to make sure everything is stable and secure. Other than that I've had no issues w/ it. Depending on how much sand you add you can develope a anaerbic zone (aka oxygen poor environment) below the commonly sifted top sand. These "dead spots" will possibly become anaerobic and usefull? How? Ananerobic zones develope anaerobic bacteria which are great for eating up some nitrates:D. IMO...there really is no wrong here. 3) This is an opinionative deal. I would not for the sake that they tend to move a lot (some species more than others). A moving anemone can be problematic in really small tanks because they could crawl/touch all your corals in a matter of hours. It's kinda risky IMO but like I said it depends on the anemone. (I guess w/ everyones advice I should add the "Disclaimer of Death" clause here). Hopefully some on here with anemones in nano's will chime in. I'd also be curious to hear the things you heard againts live sand....please share. Cameron Link to comment
JLTRUK Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 1. Live sand good..." Live Sand: Laying Down the Foundation Sand for the marine tank is more than just substrate. In an established tank, it will become home to millions of bacteria that help with the nitrogen cycle, as well as dentrivores (tiny animals that help consume and decompose waste and uneaten food; in particular, amphipods and copepods). For the marine tank, the composition of sand that works best is calcium carbonate (AKA "aragonite"). This can be found in crushed corals (CC), or finer sands. For most purposes, the finer and rounder sands work better for promoting dentrivores than CC, which can have jagged edges and is of a large gauge, but both are OK. Silica- and quartz-based sands are fairly inert and also alright to use, but will not give the same buffering benefits of aragonite. Brand names of commercially-available aragonite sand that are safe to use include "Southdown" and "Yardright" Caribbean play sands (from Home Depot and Lowes hardware stores, respectively, only in the NE United States, far more difficult to find in other parts of the country), and for those who have to resort to buying more expensive LFS brand names, "Caribbsea" and "Aragamax". For the best results, sand should be laid down in the very beginning, because it will cause white cloudiness for days (this is not harmful to life, but it can be a pain to watch and wait out). For optimal effects, a deep sand bed (DSB) should be relatively deep; at least 4-6" in small to medium sized tanks, >6" in large tanks (the deeper, the more benefits to the denitrification process). You do not need to buy it all "live" to begin with and should buy it dry in bags (rinsing is not necessary, as there are beneficial sediments in the sand, but expect lots of cloudiness either way for a long time!). Large quantities of truly "live" sand are very expensive and difficult to obtain. Most people layer their dry sand, get their systems up and running, and then "seed" it from another source; a generous fellow reefkeeper who lives in the area, an LFS with a healthy display reef tank, or if they can afford it, buy it online from a place such as Inland Aquatics. Most of the bugs in the sand will reproduce and spread fairly fast under good conditions. You will know it is truly live when you see small tunnels digging through your DSB, usually the work of little shrimp-like crustaceans called amphipods." http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art1841.asp 2. I put the sand in first and then the rock..if your tank is glass this is the way to go so your dont accidently break any glass...if you drop it, it falls on the sand not the tank 3. Anemones require care...correct placement, food and attention. If you dont really want to care for one dont get it. It wont just live there on its own without you feeding it. I have a bubble tip anemone, if you need care info on these I can help many people have many different opinions on how to set up a tank, what is right and what is wrong, so thats why you have some many conflicting results. Link to comment
kickyourbrainintheface Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 also, from my reading its never a good idea to mix corals with anemones (potential trouble in the long term) but i'm sure some people do it with success (luck) Link to comment
adinsxq Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Originally posted by kickyourbrainintheface also, from my reading its never a good idea to mix corals with anemones (potential trouble in the long term) but i'm sure some people do it with success (luck) sounds like someone who purchased an anemone and watched it slowly die "over the long term" and eventually crash their (probably) unstable system and kill their "coral." i've seen quite a few anemones do just fine in nanos no less. even on the sort term, they've split (absolutc's personal and shared stock) so if they're propping themselves in weeks, i suspect they'll do well over the months and years. reading? maybe do some more Link to comment
kickyourbrainintheface Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 actually i've never owned an anemone. this comes from hundreds of hours of research on wetwebmedia.com seems like you're the one who needs to research more bud. Link to comment
kickyourbrainintheface Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 re-read my post and notice i said nothing about nano's Link to comment
audi206rs4 Posted August 28, 2003 Author Share Posted August 28, 2003 thanks! i think i'll stick with what i have done. i put about 15 lbs of lr first and spread about 12 lbs ls around to support it. there's also about 2-3 lbs of lr rubble and 1 lb of ls in my 2.5 fuge/sump. it's all good, hopefully. live and learn, right? physh1, i've heard from a couple different lfs and a couple people who have done reefs and nanos for a while to not put any substrate, dry or live, because it just causes dead spots that will eventually get stirred up and release toxins into the tank. i thought it was kinda funny the the lfs told me that because they sold ls! them and a couple guys have told me to put no more than a 1/4 inch if i must for asthetic reasons... go figure? i didn't listen to them any ways. for some reason i tend to trust the opinions of the people who participate in this forum, it's like a little community for people who have the same interest at heart/in mind and i like that. thanks a bunch again! now if only this tank would cycle... i can't wait. Link to comment
adinsxq Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 reread MY post and notice i never said that YOU were the "someone" also notice that i said "nano" to further my point. edit: oh hey look! bye boogerboy! Link to comment
audi206rs4 Posted August 28, 2003 Author Share Posted August 28, 2003 so adinsxq? do you have an anenome or any experience with them? which kind would work? which kind stays small(er)? i've been looking but where can i find more in-depth info on anenomes in nanos? thanks! Link to comment
Physh1 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Originally posted by audi206rs4 physh1, i've heard from a couple different lfs and a couple people who have done reefs and nanos for a while to not put any substrate, dry or live, because it just causes dead spots that will eventually get stirred up and release toxins into the tank. i thought it was kinda funny the the lfs told me that because they sold ls! them and a couple guys have told me to put no more than a 1/4 inch if i must for asthetic reasons... go figure? i didn't listen to them any ways. for some reason i tend to trust the opinions of the people who participate in this forum, it's like a little community for people who have the same interest at heart/in mind and i like that. Ah...IC...you were comparing it to having zero sand at all...I though it was being compared to dry sand. Anyhow, it's safe and if well maintained you won't have any issues (by maintained I mean sand sifters). Some like asthetics and that's fine but more LS is fine...no probs. Cameron Link to comment
KFC Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 1, 2, 3 and to da fo snoop doggy dog and dr dre are at the do. bout to make an entrance so back on up. give me the mic first so I can bust like a bubble. compton and long beach, you know you in trouble. aint nutting but the G-thang baaabaayyy Link to comment
audi206rs4 Posted August 28, 2003 Author Share Posted August 28, 2003 (EVERYONE) in your opinion what are some of the best sand shifters for a 10 gal. i was thinking about getting a red sea star, i heard they stay pretty small, 3-4 inches. (PHYSH1) thanks again, good reassurance! (KICKY.B.I.T.FACE and ADINSXQ) peace out guys! it's all good! (KFC) i rock the party that rocks body! hahaha! thanks! Link to comment
JLTRUK Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I have an anemone...and no one wants to talk to me Link to comment
Physh1 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I'd think a tiger tail cucumber would be great:D. A red sea star won't really sift sand. The only issue w/ the cucumber would be that he'll eventually get too big so you'd have to trade it in for a smaller one sooner or later. Cameron Link to comment
JLTRUK Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 so Physh...your saying he can get 15 cucumbers right? what if they die... Link to comment
Physh1 Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by JLTRUK so Physh...your saying he can get 15 cucumbers right? what if they die... X) I did say A Cameron Link to comment
JLTRUK Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 I know man, I'm just messin with ya...that was funny stuff Link to comment
zizmans Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Hmmmmmmm, whos advice to listen too. Adin, an experienced successful reefer. Or kicksface guy, a total tool. hmmmmmmmmm Link to comment
JLTRUK Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 omg, I almost fell off my seat here at work. that was hilarious... Link to comment
audi206rs4 Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 well JLTRUK... let me know about anenomes and NANOS, what do you think? any info would be greatly appreciated... what kinds work best, what corals are (kinda) safe w/ them, etc., etc., etc. thanks! Link to comment
JLTRUK Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 well, since you asked...lol;) I have kept BTA (bubble tip anemones before) and currently do with much success. Here are my "keys to success" if you will with the BTA. The first is to find it a nice spot, yes it will move, but if you find it a nice spot it wont move much at all. BTA feel secure when their base is inside of something, like the crevices in a rock...if it feels secure and safe...it will stay put and stay alive. If it wants to be in the sand...some do, not any I have had it will move to the sand. Dont start it out there though. When you place it in the tank...hold it gently and try to stick it in a crevice on a rock about mid-level in the tank feed it...shrimp, krill and silver sides. Like 2 times a week is usually what is ok. In school I was lazy and only did it once a week, this worked out fine also. Now I feed mine twice a week. and lastly, like anything else maintain good water quality, and dont move the anemone if you dont like where its at. I have in my tank some mushrooms, and yellow polyps right now. It hasnt harmed anything at all in the tank, and I have never had a BTA harm anything before. And this is not due to "luck"...its due to knowing what you are doing Link to comment
Physh1 Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by JLTRUK I know man, I'm just messin with ya...that was funny stuff Oh yeah...I know:). I've been laughing my arse off for the last few days:D Cameron Link to comment
audi206rs4 Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 how big do they get? how do they reproduce? what kinda water flow? thanks! i'll do more research tonite... but let me know! Link to comment
JLTRUK Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 the anemones reproduce by splitting and creating clones of themselves...as long as you have some kind of water flow in the tank you are fine...if the anemone doesnt like the flow where its at it will move to where it likes it. how big...depends on how much you feed it, light, water quality. They can get really huge like 12 inches...or stay relatively small. There really is no one size they all get to, and sometimes it gets big then closes if something ####es it off, then gets big again...this is from my own personal experiences though. I know some people that have kept a BTA and have it stay at like 4-5inches for a few years also...it really depends with these. And I have never tried splitting one myself...I Know there are articles about this online, but with this aspect I cant really help you much. here is a good anemone resourcewetwebmedia BTA Link to comment
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