"Baking" baking soda

[hazmat]

Took a metal cookie sheet and spread tin foil on it. Used about 1/2 box of Arm&Hammer baking soda and spread a thin layer on foil. Baked at 300 degrees for 1 hour. Is this right?

 

It does not look any different than before I baked it (not sure what to expect) so I just wanted to make sure I did it right. Now I'm assuming I can keep it in jar and use it as I need it to raise ALK. Yes, I do know to mix with RO until it's dissolved and drip very slowly. The calculator says I only need 0.7 tsp so if I mix it in a cup of RO do I really need to drip it over 3 hours??

Thanks!

[Normandy]

Took a metal cookie sheet and spread tin foil on it. Used about 1/2 box of Arm&Hammer baking soda and spread a thin layer on foil. Baked at 300 degrees for 1 hour. Is this right?

 

It does not look any different than before I baked it (not sure what to expect) so I just wanted to make sure I did it right. Now I'm assuming I can keep it in jar and use it as I need it to raise ALK. Yes, I do know to mix with RO until it's dissolved and drip very slowly. The calculator says I only need 0.7 tsp so if I mix it in a cup of RO do I really need to drip it over 3 hours??

Thanks!

 

(Scratching neck) "There's something you don't know about me, Joe Rogan.....I smoke rocks!"

 

I don't know the answer to your question, but what part of DFW are you in? What LFS do you go to. I'm in N. Dallas and usually go to Dallas North Aquarium.

[gulfsurfer101]

Interesting and cheap sounding. I would like to know the answer to this question as well. If you ever get a decent answer PM me with what you find out. What calculator are you looking at and if it's an online one how bout a link to it.

[The Propagator]

I think thats it. The temperature is key not really if you leave it in to lo0ng or any thing. ( as long as you don't blacken it LOL! ) I think as long as it reaches at least 300 or over it transforms into soda ash.

 

( you REALLY need to stick with one thread about all of this because your confusing the crap out of me an making me run threads together )

[opipe73]

I know it will work i have used it in swimming pools. My question is why do you need to raise ak that quickly. Just would like to know the reason. Thanks

Oh yeah Im in Forth Worth TX. Go Texas

[hazmat]

Here is the calculator:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...p;hl=calculator

 

I got the recipe in another thread but couldn't link the quote. I did what the instructions said but since it looks exactly the same....

 

Normandy- I live right between Dallas and Fort Worth. I usually go to the True Percula in Arlington. they have good stuff and their tanks a very clean. Usually have a good inventory and Thomas who works there is really helpful! I also have gone to Fish2morrow which is close. I did go to Dallas North Aquarium once but it was so packed and I didn't find the employees very helpful. If you were not saying "I want to buy this" then they pretty much ignored you. They all work on commission there. I got claustraphobia!! At the time I was looking for a certain fish but not corals. They looked like they had decent corals. Many of their tanks had dead fish in them. Yuck!! Also visited Odyssey Pets in Carrollton. They guy there is so nice and took the time to answer all my questions. I bought rock there to set up my new 8 gallon BioCube. Love the rock but had some flatworms in it. He had a mandarin that ate frozen food. some guy snatched it up before I could!!

[reefdan]

haha i've been trying to dose A&H w/o cooking it for a week now trying to increase ALK.

[hazmat]

I think thats it. The temperature is key not really if you leave it in to lo0ng or any thing. ( as long as you don't blacken it LOL! ) I think as long as it reaches at least 300 or over it transforms into soda ash.

 

( you REALLY need to stick with one thread about all of this because your confusing the crap out of me an making me run threads together )

 

Ha ha. I know but you didn't answer my last one! Actually, you are talkin to me on three different threads. You haven't been to my " What kind of algae is this?" Now I know it's Dinos. in awhile. Get on it slacker!! JK

I thought I needed to start my own thread since the other was Airbornes!

[hazmat]

I know it will work i have used it in swimming pools. My question is why do you need to raise ak that quickly. Just would like to know the reason. Thanks

Oh yeah Im in Forth Worth TX. Go Texas

 

Can't seem to get my ALK up past 7. someone recommended using baking soda as a cheap alternative to the more expensive suppliments. If you bake it...it doesn't lower pH. Since my pH is on the low side of normal I'm hoping this will kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

 

Yeah, Saginaw your right on the other side of me! I'm off 1709....Did you see the Cowboys play?! Woot!

[HecticDialectics]

Baking soda is the "Alk" portion of "Randy's Two Part Recipe"... for anyone curious to actually look up the correct amounts to mix and measure and dose...

 

There are two versions: one unbaked (recipe two) and one baked (recipe one).

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#9

 

Recipe #1 is for use in reef aquaria whose pH is normal to low. In practice, more reef aquarists end up choosing this recipe than Recipe #2. It will tend to raise pH due to its alkalinity part's elevated pH, as do most of the commercial two-part additives. The increase in pH depends on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity increases the pH by about 0.3 pH units immediately upon its addition (and even higher, locally, before it has a chance to mix throughout the aquarium).

 

If you are using limewater (kalkwasser) and the aquarium is at pH 8.4 or above, this recipe is not the best choice. Otherwise, it is likely to be a good option. It is twice as concentrated as Recipe #2, because the baking process makes the baking soda more soluble.

 

Recipe #2 is for use in reef aquaria whose pH is on the high side (above 8.3 or so). It will have a very small pH lowering effect when initially added. The pH drop achieved will depend on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity drops the pH by about 0.04 pH units immediately upon its addition.

 

 

Basically, if you want to dose more than ~1.5 dkh at once, you should use unbaked baking soda or your pH will be jacked up way too high.

 

 

Edit: and yeah, I've done it before. It looks exactly the same.

[HecticDialectics]

so then what's the advantage of using the "baked" version?

 

 

if you have low pH, it can bring it up (temporarily)... so theoretically, you would use the baked version in a dripper or automatic doser.

 

Because of that, it's not so great to dose big amounts (not that you should necessarily dose big amounts either way... I normally split up my Alk dosing in .5dkh or 1 dkh additions)

 

The unbaked version has a smaller effect on pH (.04 decrease, as opposed to .5 increase) so you could literally dose almost 3 times as much at once if you really wanted and only have pH drop .12

 

 

 

imo, if you actually have pH problems (i.e. pH is totally out of whack and the corals are all angry) then you need to find out why, and temporary dosing with alk and buffers isn't gonna fix anything long term. Normally whenever someone posts that they have low pH problems, their pH is ~7.8 according to our less than stellar pH test kits, but all their corals are nice and happy. That's no big deal.

[hazmat]

Thank you!! That is exactly the information I needed.

 

My pH is low normal. From 7.8-8. But my corals all seem content. So that being said, I'm not sure how much of the "baked" I should use. Per the Reef Calculator to raise my ALK up to 9 I need to use 0.7 tsp or 0.1 oz of supliment. Should I assume that when you get a value of 7dKH that it represents that number per liter? So if I were to raise it by 2 then do you multiply the pH 0.3 by 2? Which would be fine if my pH was 7.8 or lower but if it were in the 8 range then I'm looking at 8.6 or higher and that would be too high.

 

Am I totally off base with this?

 

What a conundrum . I would like to raise my pH but obviously not too much.

[The Propagator]

You have an enclosed tank yes ? ( IE glass top or similar ? )

CO2 build up is notorious on a closed top system due to lack of oxygen exchange at the waters surface. CO2 drops PH. If a certain amount is constantly present because only x amount is getting exchanged for fresh o2 then there is your answer. The CO2 is holding the PH down. Salt water needs to breathe. Literally.

 

For your PH problem..

1st try removing the top from your aquarium or simply leaving the hood open before dosing any PH buffing agents. If your lights raise up with it then just prop it open about 2 inches for 24 hours and check your PH at the end of that 24 hours well after the lights have been on.

Chances are it will be close to right.

 

 

For your alkalinity problems...

Bring your alk up if you can using unbaked baking soda.

Then check it about 4-5 hours after you dose. Then again two days later ( or 24 hours ).

Bring your alk back up and repeat a couple days in a row. Then you will know about how much alkalinity your tank is actually using up given a certain amount of time.

There for you will know how much you need to be dosing.

 

I am betting The above combined with letting your tank breath better will probably solve 90% of your problems. People tend to freak out and say " where is my alkalinity going OMGZ !! " When they notice a drop when in reality its a pretty normal occurrence. Alkalinity is used up by just about every living creature in your aquarium just as calcium is. If your bio load exceeds the capability of you little micro ecosystems then that just means we have to buckle down and dose the proper amount needed that it can not make its self.

 

You will drive your self mad trying to find the problem when there may not even be a problem to begin with. You may just need to let it be and let things right them selves.

I know I did. I went nut's-o trying to find out where my alkalinity was going. I would dose a crap load of it and the next day it would be back down 3 points. but in reality it was screwing up so bad because I was dosing all this crap trying to correct a natural occurrence.

Some thing else that I have experienced that drop your alkalinity ( and Im unsure if there is any actual studies that have been done to prove it.. but... ) if you keep doing large water changes you basically creating a min cycle with in your miniature ecosystem over and over again. Each time you do you stop the nitrogen cycle mid way. Meaning it only takes out around half of whats it supposed to because its shocked in to submission by all the water changes ( to much to soon sort of thing )

I have had one tank crash in my entire reef keeping adventure 15 + years.

A power head burnt through the cord on my below the water line and fried every thing in the system.

Bleached white colonies as far as the eye could see and cloudy water. I went ape and pulled a nooby mistake. Instead of cranking up the skimmer and adding carbon I did several massive water changes and stopped my nitrogen cycle causing another system cycle. That caused my alkalinity to keep dropping like a rock.

The more alkalinity I added the more it soaked up. I just had to wait it out and let the tank get its cycle back in swing while dosing enough alkalinity to keep them growing well but not so much I dropped the bottom out of my PH or raised it to high. Once the system righted its self again it was good to go. I still have to dose alkalinity and calcium because I am by far surpassing the max bio load the system would have to have to sustain its self with out buffers I introduce into it.

[hazmat]

You have an enclosed tank yes ? ( IE glass top or similar ? )

If so remove it. PH problem solved. CO2 build up is notorious on a closed top system due to lack of oxygen exchange at the waters surface. Salt water needs to breathe. Literally.

 

Ahhhh, that would be too easy wouldn't it?? No it's open top. Outer orbit that is on brackets.

 

( I think you asked about my lighting period on my other thread....I gave you all my times, can you go back and let me know what you think about it?)

 

It would seem that the tank is at a "set point". Alk at 7 and pH around 8. Just had the issue with the brown algae (dinos?) that seem to have corrected itself with the blackout (knock knock).

thanks,

Heidi

[HecticDialectics]

Thank you!! That is exactly the information I needed.

 

My pH is low normal. From 7.8-8. But my corals all seem content. So that being said, I'm not sure how much of the "baked" I should use. Per the Reef Calculator to raise my ALK up to 9 I need to use 0.7 tsp or 0.1 oz of supliment. Should I assume that when you get a value of 7dKH that it represents that number per liter? So if I were to raise it by 2 then do you multiply the pH 0.3 by 2? Which would be fine if my pH was 7.8 or lower but if it were in the 8 range then I'm looking at 8.6 or higher and that would be too high.

 

Am I totally off base with this?

 

What a conundrum . I would like to raise my pH but obviously not too much.

 

 

Everything prop said is great info. I just wanted to add in that imo, you don't have a pH problem at all. (Especially if nothing prop said raises it any. It really is pretty common to have pH right where you do) 7.8-8 is absolutely fine. And like he said, you should really use the unbaked baking soda, because a .6 pH swing is way too much. The key to reef aquariums is stability. Swinging parameters are bad.

[vangvace]

Something else to consider doing is a mixture of 4 parts baking soda to 1 part baked baking soda. Mixes to a pH of ~8.2

[hazmat]

Everything prop said is great info. I just wanted to add in that imo, you don't have a pH problem at all. (Especially if nothing prop said raises it any. It really is pretty common to have pH right where you do) 7.8-8 is absolutely fine. And like he said, you should really use the unbaked baking soda, because a .6 pH swing is way too much. The key to reef aquariums is stability. Swinging parameters are bad.

 

Yep, that's why the info you gave me was so great. The fact that swinging my pH up 0.6 would be way too much. If you wouldn't have passed on that link I would have dosed and wondered why my tank was out of whack!

And i know my pH is not bad but if I could have gotten it up to 8.2-8.4 while raising my alk it would have been all good. But looks like that's not going to work. I'll just dose the un baked to get my alk up. Now I have an entire lb of baked baking soda!!

 

Thanks everyone!

 

 

Something else to consider doing is a mixture of 4 parts baking soda to 1 part baked baking soda. Mixes to a pH of ~8.2

 

I was thinking along the lines of that! Good catch! Only, we're dealing with 0.7 of a teaspoon! I'll be cutting up baking soda with a razor blade!

[bdare]

If you use baked baking soda Randy's Recipie states to use 2 cups of baked baking soda for 1 gallon of RO/DI. Once you get that mixed you can use the calculator to determine how much you need to dose. I'd suggest picking up a few measuing cups marked in ml. I think it's much easier to use vs. trying to figure out oz.

 

In my tank to raise Dkh by 1 I have to dose 42ml. When I pour this slowly into an area of high flow in my tank it will normally take the Ph from about 7.9 to 8.26. You can also do it slowly throughout the day if your are too worried about the swings.

 

I've had to dose manually this week because my Litermeter III had to go back to get fixed

 

I'd also reccomend checking out www.bulkreefsupply.com. This is where I buy the alk and Mg portions of my 2 part. Baking soda definitely works, but I find the stuff from BRS dissolves much easier.

[ballerina]

what is your alk supposed to be at? I know pH is supposed to be around 8.2 or so, what about alk?

[bdare]

what is your alk supposed to be at? I know pH is supposed to be around 8.2 or so, what about alk?

 

Anywhere from 8-12. Some say 7-11. I keep mine from 10-11 but I have a lot of SPS.

[hazmat]

I dosed with 0.5 tsp of baking soda which brought up my alk to 8 but my pH is only 7.8 and it's almost noon. So now I'm dosing with the baked baking soda. I'm being pretty conservative and going really slow.

[The Propagator]

Your still in the green....

[bdare]

Your still in the green....

Yeah... what he said!

[hazmat]

I know it's WNL....but if I need to raise alk then I might as well raise pH a little. Plus I'm having my issue with the brown algae (possible dinos??) again so higher pH is good! But thanks for hanging in there with me

[HecticDialectics]

Dosing for alk is by no means a long term pH solution. It will only temporarily raise pH for a few hours... then it'll go back to where it was...