Low PH

[appsgang43]

What can I do to get my ph up from 7.8. Even with water changes it stays the same.

 

Other readings are as follows:

 

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 0

Phosphate 0

Calcium 440

Alk 11 dkh

[Detritus07]

Get some buffer, but that's just a temp solution whatever is causing it.

What's the ph of the salt mix water before it goes in the tank?

[appsgang43]

Get some buffer, but that's just a temp solution whatever is causing it

What does buffer do and does it affect the alk readings?

[Detritus07]

What does buffer do and does it affect the alk readings?

Marine buffer comes in a bottle and gradually raises ph to 8.3.

here's some

[lakshwadeep]

What salt mix do you have?

 

When do you take the pH readings (morning/afternoon/evening)?

[nano_nick]

be carefull alot of buffers increase your alk alot as well i dont think its a great idea your already at 11... my ph fluctuates between 8 and 7.8 i see no adverse affects on my corals or fish and its been like that since the tank was started 6 months ago

[appsgang43]

Get some buffer, but that's just a temp solution whatever is causing it.

What's the ph of the salt mix water before it goes in the tank?

I never checked the ph of the salt mix water

 

What salt mix do you have?

 

When do you take the pH readings (morning/afternoon/evening)?

I took it this evening after I did my water change. I use Reef Crystals.

[nano_nick]

I never checked the ph of the salt mix water

 

 

I took it this evening after I did my water change. I use Reef Crystals.

how long to u let the salt mix for when you do water changes??? it can take a few hours for the ph to stablize that could be the reason your seeing a low ph but its not going to hurt anything at 7.8

[bdare]

Read this article. Like I said... if your Alk is high, low Ph is a result of low O2.

 

Low pH: Causes and Cures

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

[appsgang43]

Ok I checked my ph in the water I am going to use for my water change. It has been 2 hours since I added the salt and my ph is 7.4. Any suggestions? I want to use buffer but afraid of raising my alk to high.

[bdare]

Ok I checked my ph in the water I am going to use for my water change. It has been 2 hours since I added the salt and my ph is 7.4. Any suggestions? I want to use buffer but afraid of raising my alk to high.

 

I swear this is the last time I'm going to say this... DO NOT USE BUFFER TO ADJUST PH! Only use buffer to increase your alk.

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE just read the article I sent you. It's obvious you haven't read it yet because you keep asking the same question!

[appsgang43]

I swear this is the last time I'm going to say this... DO NOT USE BUFFER TO ADJUST PH! Only use buffer to increase your alk.

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE just read the article I sent you. It's obvious you haven't read it yet because you keep asking the same question!

I have read it. I have adjusted the water flow in my tank. I can't afford a skimmer right now. I am really not trying to be thick headed I just don't want to lose my fish or corals.

[The Propagator]

Ditch the reef crystals then and go with instant ocean or oceanic.

The problem sounds like its 100% from your salt. Its staying at 7.8 in your tank because its trying to buffer its self up and has reached its limitations where its at right now at 7.8

Every time you do a water change if your starting with 7.4 your dropping your ph in the tank until it buffers its self back up again.

 

 

I swear this is the last time I'm going to say this... DO NOT USE BUFFER TO ADJUST PH! Only use buffer to increase your alk.

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE just read the article I sent you. It's obvious you haven't read it yet because you keep asking the same question!

 

What about using PH up or down for RO/Di water ?

 

Send me that article too please.

[appsgang43]

Ditch the reef crystals then and go with instant ocean or oceanic.

The problem sounds like its 100% from your salt.

 

 

 

 

What about using PH up or down for RO/Di water ?

 

Send me that article too please.

I was having issues before I tried Reef Crystals. I used cora life before.

[pookstreet]

Also check your Mg level. What a lot of people don't realize is that Mg plays a rather important role in keeping several other parameter stable. Overall, I wouldn't worry about your pH of 7.8 unless your corals are adversely affected. When I had my 30 up, the pH was around 7.8-7.9 for almost 3 years and I had great growth/colors.

[The Propagator]

I was having issues before I tried Reef Crystals. I used cora life before.

 

Do you have a closed top tank ?

[appsgang43]

Do you have a closed top tank ?

Yes I do but I just bought a 16.5 Sunpod online today. So hoping that will help once it gets here. I also have alittle problem with high temps because of lights.

[bdare]

Ditch the reef crystals then and go with instant ocean or oceanic.

The problem sounds like its 100% from your salt. Its staying at 7.8 in your tank because its trying to buffer its self up and has reached its limitations where its at right now at 7.8

Every time you do a water change if your starting with 7.4 your dropping your ph in the tank until it buffers its self back up again.

 

Reef Crystals definitely is NOT the problem. When mixed to 1.026 RC has an alk of 12 which should provide plenty of buffering power against a low Ph.

 

What about using PH up or down for RO/Di water ?

Send me that article too please.

 

Why in the world would you buffer RO/DI? The reason the Ph of RO/DI is low is because it is void of any buffers. Once it mixes with your tank water the ph will adjust based on the fact your tank is full of buffer (alk).

 

Here's the link (I posted this like 4 posts up)

 

Low pH: Causes and Cures

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

 

Also check your Mg level. What a lot of people don't realize is that Mg plays a rather important role in keeping several other parameter stable. Overall, I wouldn't worry about your pH of 7.8 unless your corals are adversely affected. When I had my 30 up, the pH was around 7.8-7.9 for almost 3 years and I had great growth/colors.

 

Mg has nothing to do with Ph. I believe the realtionship you are thinking of is the fact that Mg allows you to have elevated levels of Ca and Alk without precipitation.

 

Here's an article for you:

 

A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

 

Magnesium in Reef Aquaria

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/chem.htm

[hazmat]

Good article! Interesting about using inside air compared to outside air. Also gives good ways to increase pH as I have low normal pH and low ALK. Prop is helping me on that!

[bdare]

Good article! Interesting about using inside air compared to outside air. Also gives good ways to increase pH as I have low normal pH and low ALK. Prop is helping me on that!

 

I've been reading all the advice he's given you on that. One thing I'd add is be VERY careful about which Ca supplement you go with. Personally I don't trust the pool additives. I've been using Tetra Briners Grade CaCl. It's 96-98% pure. 50lb bags cost $17. It's also what the chemists on RC have suggested since the bromine issues with Dow.

[hazmat]

I've been reading all the advice he's given you on that. One thing I'd add is be VERY careful about which Ca supplement you go with. Personally I don't trust the pool additives. I've been using Tetra Briners Grade CaCl. It's 96-98% pure. 50lb bags cost $17. It's also what the chemists on RC have suggested since the bromine issues with Dow.

 

I have NO issue with my calcium. None, zip, nada. I tested everything yesterday and my calcium was 420 but alk was 7 again. pH was 7.8

 

I'm not going to dose if my level is good which it is. Isn't that what you guys have taught us? do not dose unless you test for it! Heidi is a good learner I actually have an entire bottle of Seachem calcium that has never been opened because my calcium has always been good. But...I don't have any SPS yet. Reseaching that right now as I'm going to start adding those soon. Want to make sure everything is stable first!

And I should have said MANY people are helping me with that as you have given me great advice also!

[The Propagator]

Ben I have had alk as high as 13 and PH as low as 7.6 before.

Some times the problem is surface agitation. IE gas exchange and no matter how high your alkalinity is it wont buffer because CO2 levels with in the water column are not being released and exchanged.

 

The calcium Choride Dyhidrate I use is 100 % pure ( probably closer to 96-98 % like the rest though).

Been using it for the past 2 months with no issues. the problem with the bromine is only with dow flake and dow products as far as I can tell.

You would buffer RO/DI water if your having troubles with low PH from freshly mixed salt, low PH in your tank.. ect ect ect.. just like you would add alk, and calcium to top off water until you got it under control. Its simply a method of buffer like any other only with out adding it directly to the tank in full solution.

African Cichlid breeders do it when its to high or to low, Discus breeders do it, Marine fish keepers do it...... reefers around here do it..... ( but like I said only when there is a problem buffering or lowering PH.) Keep it in perspective. I'm not trying to get into a peeing match with you

 

Hazmat,

Now by closed top tank I mean a glass versa top or nearly completely enclosed hood...

Reason for asking is that its quite common to have low ph problems in a tank with a closed top.

It severely hinders the gas exchange process and built up gasses lower PH.

 

 

 

I have NO issue with my calcium. None, zip, nada. I tested everything yesterday and my calcium was 420 but alk was 7 again. pH was 7.8

 

I'm not going to dose if my level is good which it is. Isn't that what you guys have taught us? do not dose unless you test for it! Heidi is a good learner I actually have an entire bottle of Seachem calcium that has never been opened because my calcium has always been good. But...I don't have any SPS yet. Reseaching that right now as I'm going to start adding those soon. Want to make sure everything is stable first!

And I should have said MANY people are helping me with that as you have given me great advice also!

 

I would try and keep your alkalinity right around 8.5 - 9 dkh.

I have found that to be an ideal range. I used to like it high but then noticing things fade a little that at 1st seemed to like it. 7 is border line. You really should buffer it up a li'll to 8.5 - 9 IMHO.

[bdare]

Ben I have had alk as high as 13 and PH as low as 7.6 before.

Some times the problem is surface agitation. IE gas exchange and no matter how high your alkalinity is it wont buffer because CO2 levels with in the water column are not being released and exchanged.

 

I totally agree and that's the point I've been trying to get across. If your alk is fine... DONT add buffer... replace CO2 with O2 or dose kalk, but that's a whole 'nother tangent!

[The Propagator]

Seachems Marine buffer 8.3 will initially rais PH and not alkalinity though.

It will gradually raise alkalinity but hers is being used up at the normal rate it seems.

I mean its at 7 now right.. soo .. a gradual raise over a couple of doses may be right on line with actual usage...

 

BUT I realize the point your making. I'm simply taking information given tome and asking more questions to help find the solution. For instance.. now we know she has had a closed top for who knows how long. A simple fix for that would be an open top with surface agitation with out spending money on a skimmer she cant afford right now to add o2 via foam fractionation.

[bdare]

Seachems Marine buffer 8.3 will initially rais PH and not alkalinity though.

It will gradually raise alkalinity but hers is being used up at the normal rate it seems.

I mean its at 7 now right.. soo .. a gradual raise over a couple of doses may be right on line with actual usage...

 

BUT I realize the point your making. I'm simply taking information given tome and asking more questions to help find the solution. For instance.. now we know she has had a closed top for who knows how long. A simple fix for that would be an open top with surface agitation with out spending money on a skimmer she cant afford right now to add o2 via foam fractionation.

 

Direction per thier website:

 

DIRECTIONS: Add 5 g (1 level teaspoon) for each 80 L (20 gallons*). Dissolve in at least one cup of freshwater. This dose will also raise alkalinity by about 1 meq/L. Add daily until pH stabilizes at 8.3. This will take from a day to a week, depending on original pH and alkalinity. Thereafter, use biweekly or monthly to maintain a pH of 8.3. If this practice is not adequate, then overstocking, overfeeding, or other poor management practice should be sought as a likely cause. In ionically balanced marine water, Marine Buffer™ produces little precipitate or cloudiness. If an extensive precipitate forms upon addition of Marine Buffer™ that does not dissolve within ~15 minutes, then poor ionic balance was present. A water change should be initiated when convenient before further use of the product. Effectiveness improves with continued use. Do not directly mix with any calcium, magnesium, or strontium supplement.

 

To me this just reiterates why people should use Baking Soda for Alk. It's just sodium carbonate / bicarbonate and doesn't have all the other stuff listed in thier ingredients:

 

Marine Buffer™ contains sodium, magnesium, calcium, strontium, and potassium salts of carbonate, bicarbonate, chloride, sulfate, and borate.

 

One thing to notice which is added here is borate. Borate can give you falsly high readings of alk. It will raise your total alk, but not USEABLE alk.

 

Ben