What is the proper KH/ALK Level

[Airborne]

My coraline is turning white. Had my water tested at my lfs. They said it is probably the Alk. They used the Salifert test kit. It measured on the first column 5.1 and the second colum was 1.83.

 

They said the Alk or KH was high and it should be between 3-4. Not 5.1

 

They said do a water change and do not add anymore Trace Soft for a while.

 

Is this the reason for the bleaching out of the coraline? What should the level really be?

 

Thx

[masterbuilder]

My advice. DO NOT add any chemicals or additives to your tank. Just do a 20% water change what a quality salt mix every week. And also...why are you adding any trace elements to your tank...its already in your salt mix in proper ratio's. We need to know more about your setup to help much... like size/age/rock/lights/livestock/etc....the more details you give the better.

 

anyway...until then... I would do a 25% water change right now and then check all your levels and let us know what they are.

 

Mark

 

p.s. 90% of all those bottles on the shelf at the LFS are just a recipe for failure. I dont know ANYONE here that adds trace elements or stuff like that. (or will admit to it)

[marinekeeper]

I use additives and had great success. I dose my reef w/ nano part a and nano part b every 2 days. I also use phytoplex for the reef. About 5 drops twice a week. 15% water change every 8-9 days. Things are going great.

 

I also throw down on some vitamic C twice a week. 5 drops each time.

 

also soak the food in the vitamin C.

[vangvace]

Alkalinity

2.5-4 meq/L or 7-11 dKH or 125-200 ppm CaCO3 equivalents

 

Looked up trace soft btw link

I'm not to crazy about the Active ingredients:

Manganese, Iron, Copper, Zinc, Vanadate, Fluoride, Barium, Selenate.

 

If you don't test and you do dose then you are setting yourself up for failure.

[bdare]

Alkalinity

2.5-4 meq/L or 7-11 dKH or 125-200 ppm CaCO3 equivalents

 

Looked up trace soft btw link

I'm not to crazy about the Active ingredients:

Manganese, Iron, Copper, Zinc, Vanadate, Fluoride, Barium, Selenate.

 

If you don't test and you do dose then you are setting yourself up for failure.

 

+1. I'd also check your Mg. You need to keep Mg at least at 1350ppm. If your tank recently finished cycling your coraline will turn white if you didn't soft cycle your tank. Don't worry though... it will come back.

[Airborne]

Thanks. I have a Red Sea Max, I do not mix my own water I buy it from my lfs. It is Scripps Water. Tank has been set up for 3 months. I have been using Trace Soft and ocassionally Purple UP.

I went to my lfs and they told me to add Kent Marine Super Buffer. I did and added it today retested and KH is up from 5.1 to 6.1 and the Alk was 1.83 and is now 2.17 Calcium is at 440ppm.

 

So I guess maybe one more dose and I should be in range.

 

Thx for the help.

[appsgang43]

+1. I'd also check your Mg. You need to keep Mg at least at 1350ppm. If your tank recently finished cycling your coraline will turn white if you didn't soft cycle your tank. Don't worry though... it will come back.

I just tested my KH with my new API test and it reads 13dkh, I know this is to high. Will a water change help?

[bdare]

I just tested my KH with my new API test and it reads 13dkh, I know this is to high. Will a water change help?

 

Don't stress over it too hard. 13 will prolly not hurt you. Just keep doing water changes on your regular schedule and don't dose for awhile.

[hazmat]

I have a question for you guys.....I use Red Sea Coral Pro. I do weekly water changes of 4 gallons. My calcium is always good but my dKH is ALWAYS 7. I have been dosing every day trying to get it up to 9. I used an entire bottle of Brightwell carbonate and now onto Seachem Reef Carbonate. So if I can't get my level up with dosing how is it going to get there doing water changes only? I know 7 is normal but low normal. You can see in my siggy what I have as far as corals.

[bdare]

I have a question for you.....I use Red Sea Coral Pro. I do weekly water changes of 4 gallons. My calcium is always good but my dKH is ALWAYS 7. I have been dosing every day trying to get it up to 9. I used an entire bottle of Brightwell carbonate and now onto Seachem Reef Carbonate. So if I can't get my level up with dosing how is it going to get there doing water changes only? I know 7 is normal but low normal. You can see in my siggy what I have as far as corals.

 

According to the thread over at RC those are the results you should expect from Red Sea Coral Pro:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=1287118

 

You could always use one of the online calculators to adjust your makeup water before your water changes.

http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html

 

Personally, I'd reccomend switching salts to something that doesn't require the extra dosing. I use Reef Crystals and I'm very happy with the results.

 

The other thing you can do is use baking soda to bring up your alk. It works great and is much cheaper than those other supplements.

[The Propagator]

That's 14.1 dkh not 13 and it will definitely do what your experiencing.

If you have any coral in there and have noticed slight die off and or lack of growth in your soft corals its because when Alkalinity levels rise around 12 dkh (4.3 meq/l ) for long periods of time it actually halt calcium consumption in soft coral causing a growth stunting effect and they could start to melt a little as well. ( IE zoanthids, leathers.... ) It doesn't effect sps in the same drastic way but it will bleach them a bit and slow growth.

[hazmat]

According to the thread over at RC those are the results you should expect from Red Sea Coral Pro:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=1287118

 

You could always use one of the online calculators to adjust your makeup water before your water changes.

http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html

 

Personally, I'd reccomend switching salts to something that doesn't require the extra dosing. I use Reef Crystals and I'm very happy with the results.

 

The other thing you can do is use baking soda to bring up your alk. It works great and is much cheaper than those other supplements.

 

Thanks for the info. I also checked out StevieT's salt comparison chart on his tank thread.

I did do the calculator and added the appropriate amt of alk but like I said....I would dose almost daily. Day after I would dose it would be 8 then the next day it would be back to 7. I don't have that many corals so I'm not sure what's using up my alk so fast.

I'm going to try the baking soda next. Save on some $$.

Thanks again!

[The Propagator]

Baking soda will also last a little longer.

I had the same problem because my acropora and other stony coral were hitting major growth spurts and soaking it up daily but not so much the calcium. I tried b-ionic, Kent dkh plus, you name it I tried it. Lasted 24 hrs max before it bottomed out again. Started using baking soda and viola ! lasts up to 3 days before I have to add. Use the reef chemistry calculator to figure your dosage. as long as you are close on your actual water volume guesstimate the calculator is pretty spot on.

Baking soda will slightly drop your PH but in 8-12 hrs it will bounce right back. ( I am talking less then half a point drop ). You can get an 8 lb bag from Sams wholesale club for $6.95 or something like that and believe me that will last you a long large time. Now conversely if you have a low PH problem you can bake the baking soda in the oven and make soda ash. This kills two birds with one stone. It will raise you alkalinity AND your PH as well. Be sure to drip in the alkalinity mix though. I use an old b-ionic bottle a section of air tube and an air valve. I leave the lid off and set the drip using the valve.

Now for your calcium you can either use dow flake, Peadlow pellets ( ice melt. but I am iffy on that one ) or calcium chloride dihydrate found in swimming pool and spa supply stores used to raise calcium levels in pools and spas. I am currently using a product made by swim way called "Calcium Plus". It 100% pure calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCL2). It dissolves rapidly with a little stirring. Also needs to be dripped in the system. Since other calcium additives usually incorporate some sort of magnesium buffer in their mix I like to put in about 1.5 mil of Kent Tech D magnesium buffer every time I dose for calcium. I just mix it right in with the calcium Chloride Dihydrate solution.

Now for both the baking soda mix, or calcium chloride dihyrate mix its best to use RO/DI water to make the mix up to avoid any funky stuff. Now when your mixing calcium chloride dihydrate OR the baking soda DO NOT do it in a closed container. The calcium chloride dihydrate heats up pretty good on contact with moisture and will cause pressure build up, and the baking soda bubbles and releases sodium bicarbonate. So capping a bottle and shaking it up from powder form in liquid will likely cause a bad situation

 

Its also very easy to make up your own super saturated and bottled mix just like the store bought alk mix so you can just dose a few mil's at a time from the bottle instead of making the exact amount form scratch each time. BUT its only good for about two weeks or so and you need to shake it up real good before using.

[hazmat]

Baking soda will also last a little longer.

I had the same problem because my acropora and other stony coral were hitting major growth spurts and soaking it up daily but not so much the calcium. I tried b-ionic, Kent dkh plus, you name it I tried it. Lasted 24 hrs max before it bottomed out again. Started using baking soda and viola ! lasts up to 3 days before I have to add. Use the reef chemistry calculator to figure your dosage. as long as you are close on your actual water volume guesstimate the calculator is pretty spot on.

Baking soda will slightly drop your PH but in 8-12 hrs it will bounce right back. ( I am talking less then half a point drop ). You can get an 8 lb bag from Sams wholesale club for $6.95 or something like that and believe me that will last you a long large time. Now conversely if you have a low PH problem you can bake the baking soda in the oven and make soda ash. This kills two birds with one stone. It will raise you alkalinity AND your PH as well. Be sure to drip in the alkalinity mix though. I use an old b-ionic bottle a section of air tube and an air valve. I leave the lid off and set the drip using the valve.

Now for your calcium you can either use dow flake, Peadlow pellets ( ice melt. but I am iffy on that one ) or calcium chloride dihydrate found in swimming pool and spa supply stores used to raise calcium levels in pools and spas. I am currently using a product made by swim way called "Calcium Plus". It 100% pure calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCL2). It dissolves rapidly with a little stirring. Also needs to be dripped in the system. Since other calcium additives usually incorporate some sort of magnesium buffer in their mix I like to put in about 1.5 mil of Kent Tech D magnesium buffer every time I dose for calcium. I just mix it right in with the calcium Chloride Dihydrate solution.

Now for both the baking soda mix, or calcium chloride dihyrate mix its best to use RO/DI water to make the mix up to avoid any funky stuff. Now when your mixing calcium chloride dihydrate OR the baking soda DO NOT do it in a closed container. The calcium chloride dihydrate heats up pretty good on contact with moisture and will cause pressure build up, and the baking soda bubbles and releases sodium bicarbonate. So capping a bottle and shaking it up from powder form in liquid will likely cause a bad situation

 

Its also very easy to make up your own super saturated and bottled mix just like the store bought alk mix so you can just dose a few mil's at a time from the bottle instead of making the exact amount form scratch each time. BUT its only good for about two weeks or so and you need to shake it up real good before using.

 

That deserves a sticky!!

Thanks. I can bake baking soda and we have a pool with easy access to Leslies Pool Supplies so that should be no issue.

And to clarify.....make the alk mix according to the calculator using RO (making sure not to cap it...I would have so done that!! ) I have an acclimation set tubing with a valve on it so I take said mix and slowly drip it into display tank (no fuge) until all gone. Correct??

So far no issue with calcium but I'm printing out these instructions for future use cause I'm ready to start with a few easy SPS.

[bdare]

For baked baking soda the recipie is 2 cups per gallon and for unbaked it's 1 cup per gallon. The only reason is because the baked dissolves better in water.

[hazmat]

For baked baking soda the recipie is 2 cups per gallon and for unbaked it's 1 cup per gallon. The only reason is because the baked dissolves better in water.

 

What is the recipe for baking it? And you are saying mix that up and drip in however much the calculator says to? I've been trying to "search" for all this info and it's going slow. So thanks to everyone! Sorry Airborne about hijacking your thread. Hopefully this is helping you out too

[DCG1286]

My advice. DO NOT add any chemicals or additives to your tank. Just do a 20% water change what a quality salt mix every week. And also...why are you adding any trace elements to your tank...its already in your salt mix in proper ratio's. We need to know more about your setup to help much... like size/age/rock/lights/livestock/etc....the more details you give the better.

 

anyway...until then... I would do a 25% water change right now and then check all your levels and let us know what they are.

 

Mark

 

p.s. 90% of all those bottles on the shelf at the LFS are just a recipe for failure. I dont know ANYONE here that adds trace elements or stuff like that. (or will admit to it)

 

+1 my alk is at 10-11dhk...I only use B-ionic 2 part additive, best way of getting proper levels is from your salt, not fancy chemicals Best tanks i have seen, they only do water changes I also test everything myself, mag, cal, alk etc.etc. I use Red Sea Coral Pro salt.

 

-David

[hazmat]

+1 my alk is at 10-11dhk...I only use B-ionic 2 part additive, best way of getting proper levels is from your salt, not fancy chemicals Best tanks i have seen, they only do water changes I also test everything myself, mag, cal, alk etc.etc. I use Red Sea Coral Pro salt.

 

-David

 

I'm confused.....you said best way of getting proper levels is from your salt and water changes. but then you use B-inonic soooooo isn't that chemicals????

We use the same salt and I cant get my alk above 7 doing water changes only. Maybe I should look into the B-inonic but my calcium is fine at 420. I wouldn't want to dose the calcium part with that level, right? So then I'm back to only dosing the alk and then I'm using chemicals.......and it's what I've been doing without too much success.

 

Not being arguementative, just need clarification

[vangvace]

What is the recipe for baking it? And you are saying mix that up and drip in however much the calculator says to? I've been trying to "search" for all this info and it's going slow. So thanks to everyone! Sorry Airborne about hijacking your thread. Hopefully this is helping you out too

 

From RHF:

Spread baking soda (594 grams or about 2 ¼ cups) on a baking tray and heat in an ordinary oven at 300°F for one hour to drive off water and carbon dioxide. Overheating is not a problem, either with higher temperatures or longer times. Dissolve the residual solid in enough water to make 1 gallon total. This dissolution may require a fair amount of mixing. Warming it speeds dissolution. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). I prefer to use baked baking soda rather than washing soda in this recipe as baking soda from a grocery store is always food grade, while washing soda may not have the same purity requirements. Arm & Hammer brand is a fine choice. Be sure to NOT use baking powder. Baking powder is a different material that often has phosphate as a main ingredient.

[DCG1286]

I'm confused.....you said best way of getting proper levels is from your salt and water changes. but then you use B-inonic soooooo isn't that chemicals????

We use the same salt and I cant get my alk above 7 doing water changes only. Maybe I should look into the B-inonic but my calcium is fine at 420. I wouldn't want to dose the calcium part with that level, right? So then I'm back to only dosing the alk and then I'm using chemicals.......and it's what I've been doing without too much success.

 

Not being arguementative, just need clarification

 

Don't worry I read my comment too Was a bit confusing...sorry about that...I do use B-ionic...so yes i do use chemicals to buffer my system...but that is only for Calcium and Alk...that's it...in the first post i saw the person using trace soft...that is for trace elements...IMO something completely useless...He is not going to get his alk up using that stuff...our trace elements come from our salt mixture and are replenished with water changes. Sorry if this is still confusing...

 

-David

[bdare]

If you perform water changes you don't really need to dose trace elements. I have a friend with a bare bottom SPS tank and he RARELY does water changes. He doses trace elements to keep up with consumption since he does not get it often enough from the salt.

[hazmat]

Don't worry I read my comment too Was a bit confusing...sorry about that...I do use B-ionic...so yes i do use chemicals to buffer my system...but that is only for Calcium and Alk...that's it...in the first post i saw the person using trace soft...that is for trace elements...IMO something completely useless...He is not going to get his alk up using that stuff...our trace elements come from our salt mixture and are replenished with water changes. Sorry if this is still confusing...

 

-David

 

Ok Got it!!! That's what I get for hijacking his thread.

He was talking about trace elements and I was thinking alkalinity. Sorry bout that!

 

BTW, how long is the ALK mixture good for? And exactly how do I dose it? the online calculators give the amount of baking soda to use but not this mixture. Is there a link?

[The Propagator]

Spread baking soda (594 grams or about 2 ¼ cups) on a baking tray and heat in an ordinary oven at 300°F for one hour to drive off water and carbon dioxide. Overheating is not a problem, either with higher temperatures or longer times. Dissolve the residual solid in enough water to make 1 gallon total. This dissolution may require a fair amount of mixing. Warming it speeds dissolution. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). I prefer to use baked baking soda rather than washing soda in this recipe as baking soda from a grocery store is always food grade, while washing soda may not have the same purity requirements. Arm & Hammer brand is a fine choice. Be sure to NOT use baking powder. Baking powder is a different material that often has phosphate as a main ingredient.

 

BTW, how long is the ALK mixture good for? And exactly how do I dose it? the online calculators give the amount of baking soda to use but not this mixture. Is there a link?

 

Hmmm..... I think its only good for about 3-4 weeks max actually.

Now you want to store them both ( alk and cal mixes ) with the lid on.

Its only when your mixing them up fresh that you should let them breath a bit before capping.

You will find it MUCH MUCH easier just to use the calculator and mix in the baking soda as you need to raise your Alk with a little of your top off water, pouring it in your drip system and letting it drip over a 3-4 hours period or so then trying to figure out what the proper dosage would be from a concentrated mixture like that.

I should have never mentioned that actually because it gets confusing ( to me any ways).

 

If you ever want to mix it up and find out it shouldn't be to hard to do by experimenting. Measure out a gallon of RO/DI (or even tap water) in a bucket and mix in some fresh salt to the proper salinity.

( This is something your not going to use in your aquarium. This will be a simple test so you know how much will raise your alkalinity per gallon.)

Wait 20 -30 minutes. Stir it up and take an alkalinity reading. Note it, then add 1ml at a time from the concentrated mix and wait a little while ( an hour or so ) stir it up again and test. Then repeat with 1 ml and retest. Then you will know exactly how much you need per gallon to raise your alkalinity.

[hazmat]

I was thinking the same as far as using the calculator! I could see me mixing a gallon and OD'ing my alk. If I mix up the correct amount in 2 cups of RO then I need to run the 2 cups in over 3-4 hours, correct? Dang, I need an IV pump from the hospital that I work at. Then I can program it to drip in. Thats going to be a pretty slow drip. HEY!!! Now that I think of it I have some IV tubing here at home. I'll snag me a 250cc bag of saline and drain it and then use the bag for my mixture. Brainstorming!!!

 

Any problems with the baking soda settling to the bottom while it's dripping in? And can I drip it into the back chamber so it goes thru the media rack, skimmer and pumps or should it go directly into the tank?

 

Thanks Prop! I appreciate you helping a newbie out!

[The Propagator]

No settling once its mixed its mixed.

GOOD idea with the IV bag !

Yes no matter the amount dosed its always a good idea to drip it in.

 

No problem. We all need help once in a while bro' thats what we are here for