Help Sizing pump for new Chiller!

[dflash]

Hi.. All!

After much research, I finally purchased a Prime Mini 1/15 chiller for my BC29. You may ask why I do I need a chiller for a 29g? Well, I live in Miami,Fl and its less expensive to keep a tank at 77F than a whole house at 75F. Also, I'm upgrading the lighting to a Sunpod 20" 150w MH. I will be setting it up topless, so I wanted to keep evaporation to a minimum as well as temps under 77F.

With, all that out of the way, the reason for my post is to find out if anyone out there may have installed this chiller on a BC29 without mayor mods. My idea was to replace the stock pump with a more powerfull one, take the outlet hose to the tank and redirect it to the chiller, then get the return from the chiller and hook it up the the return into the main tank. The chiller will be placed on the floor right behind the tank's stock cabinet, about 3' of hose to and fro the chiller. Total 6'.

The questions are:

1) What size/brand pump would you recommend?

2) If you have done this, do you have pics?

3) Any additional suggestions?

[dflash]

Come on... no takers? 26 have seen this post and nobody has anything to say?

Any bit of info will help... don't think I have not read other posts about chiller installs. Its just that they go out on the left field and mod the tank more than I would like to.

 

Any help appreciated...

[jeremai]

Read the literature that came with the chiller, it will tell you what flow rate you have to have. Choose a pump accordingly.

 

Or post the flow rate (because I'm too lazy to search for it) and we'll recommend our favorite pumps.

[SeeDemTails]

I use a mj 900 to power my 1/15th current, and it works just fine.

 

As long as the pump input and the outflow from the skimmer are at the same level like tank height, you have no loss in head pressure. You dont need a big pump to run it......mine is 10ft from the tank!

 

You can see the chiller on the floor to the left, gives you an idea what I am talking about, and goes to show you can run it with whatever pump you want as long as the intake and output are at the same hight..........Think of it this way, the water coming from the tank pushes down with equal weight to the water coming back into the tank(kinda like how a siphon works), so the pump works at full capacity. I am really pleased with the mj 900 as the power pump.

 

[S197]

Seedemtails, how long does your chiller stay on for and how long is it off for?

 

I just put my 1/15th in tonight with a MJ1200 and its turning on and off every 2 minutes. Im beginning to think I dont have enough flow in it since its cooling the water in the chiller so fast,

[jeremai]

Seedemtails, how long does your chiller stay on for and how long is it off for?

 

I just put my 1/15th in tonight with a MJ1200 and its turning on and off every 2 minutes. Im beginning to think I dont have enough flow in it since its cooling the water in the chiller so fast,

That's not the pump, that means the chiller is undersized. What's the volume of the tank? I have a 1/10hp chilling a 10g to 60 degrees and it cycles for 5 minutes every 20 minutes.

[HankB]

That's not the pump, that means the chiller is undersized. What's the volume of the tank? I have a 1/10hp chilling a 10g to 60 degrees and it cycles for 5 minutes every 20 minutes.

 

Can you explain the mechanics for that? I would have thought that if the chiller was undersized, it would go on and stay on without maintaining the desired temperature.

 

OTOH, if the pump is undersized, water passing through the chiller would chill excessively and that could turn off the chiller before the tank itself has cooled down, no?

 

-hank

[dflash]

Thanks for the comments guys. The reason why I mentioned the the distance to and from the chiller is because I have been reading that the pump must have the same or more "head" as what distance the water is traveling, otherwise you loose flow. I asked a guy in my LFS if this applied only to water flow back into the tank and he said no, both ways. So there you see, I have heard mixed info and wanted to know what the people in the forum had done or experienced.

[SeeDemTails]

It simple physics.......I read it from HankB one day and it went 'click'.

 

Think of a siphon.....If you hold both ends of a full tube of water at the same height, the water will stay in the tube......BUT if you start to put one end lower than the other, water will begin to flow out.

 

A chiller pump works on that principle, the pump input to the chiller has to be at the same height as the output back into the tank from the chiller, and you will have NO HEAD LOSS.

 

If your input is lets say from the sump, then the out put is up to the tank, you will have a head LOSS....

 

If your input was from the tank, then the output was to the sump, you would have a head GAIN because it would be siphoning.

 

As long as they are at the same height the pump is pushing 296 gph through the chiller, which is more than enough. Make sure the intake for the pump isnt up again a wall or clogged with algae....I pump mine in the retun part of my skimmer box, and initially had a problem with the intake being to close to the wall of the box, restricting flow.

 

Just plug in the chiller pump only, and turn off all the other pumps, then watch the flow coming out of the chiller hose, it should be pretty dang string with a mj 1200!

[S197]

I spoke with current USA about the chiller... I dunno if he even worked there lol

 

I asked them about how the chiller didnt specify which nozzle was in or Out and he said it doesnt matter it will work either way.

 

I asked about what the reccommended flow rate is since websites and manuals indicate different GPH, and he said any flow rate will work really as long as water is moving through it.

 

I asked him about my chiller kicking on for about 30 seconds, then turning off and then kicking back on for about 30 seconds. He said thats how they run, intermittenent, and that its not suppose to cycle 100% of the time. I told him I understand that but my previous chiller went on for about 10 minutes, then turned off for about 10 minutes and held the tank stable to within a 0.5 degree max swing. He said that it is normal for a 30 second on/off cycle and a 2 degree swing is great and no other chiller can get it closer then that.

 

If you ask me this guy was just telling me what I wanted to hear that everythings ok, but im gonna work with the flow rate and see if higher helps it out. I measured it and Im pushing about 190GPH right now. Im thinking ill take it up to about 250 and see if more water in there will help, Ill also switch the in and out nozzles and see if that makes any difference. I really miss my JBJ artica to bad they discontinued it.

[dflash]

Ok.,. so I chose the Rio 1400 for my application. I decised to test all this equipment prior to the install and this is what I found. I took a 5gal container (zepherhills) and filled it with 86F tap water and set the chiller to 73F. Checking the temperature every 15min.

@10:30pm - 86F

@11:00pm - 82F

@11:15pm - 79F

@11:30pm - 77F

@11:45pm - 75F

@12:00am - 74F and it stopped.(chiller reads 74F/Digital Thermometer 73.5F)

These are my findings, it took 1hr30min to cool 5gal 12degrees. At 2degrees every 15min. Mind you it was in my garage which was at 111F. Flow seems to be very close if not better than the stock pump and this is with 6ft of 3/4 lines. Lets see how it goes when I place it in the BC29.

[HankB]

I asked them about how the chiller didnt specify which nozzle was in or Out and he said it doesnt matter it will work either way.

...

I asked him about my chiller kicking on for about 30 seconds, then turning off and then kicking back on for about 30 seconds. He said thats how they run, intermittenent, and that its not suppose to cycle 100% of the time.

 

I call bull on the tech support guy!

 

Where is the sensor for the chiller? Is it internal to the chiller? If so and the flow is backwards, as soon as it kicks on, the temp at the sensor will drop and kick it off. If the inlet is not clearly marked, try swapping hoses and see if that makes a difference.

 

There is no way that the unit is supposed to switch on and off that rapidly. No way. That's inefficient and could lead to premature wear on the unit - perhaps even damage.

 

If you call their tech support again and get the same answers, ask to speak to a supervisor. But at this point you might try writing a letter (or email) and don't hesitate to include a link to this thread.

 

HTH,

hank

 

BTW, thanks SDT! I thought I was fighting that battle alone. Good to see someone else who understands physics.

[Red Leader]

I'm getting the same problem as S197. Chiller is going on and off about every 2 minutes. Following along...

 

Seedemtails, how long does your chiller stay on for and how long is it off for?

 

I just put my 1/15th in tonight with a MJ1200 and its turning on and off every 2 minutes. Im beginning to think I dont have enough flow in it since its cooling the water in the chiller so fast,

[S197]

Ill try swapping the hoses tomarrow after work, The chiller is working now, its just kicking on and off to much for me. I have a feeling its the hoses though

[S197]

well, its only been about 12 minutes, but I think the hose swap worked, chiller is running for about 5 minutes, then taking a 1-2 minute break. That is because its bringing down the temp right now, Ill let you know how it works throughout next couple of hours. I think you were right about the temperature sensor though, the temp in the cooling tank is much more stable now I will say that more flow helped keep it going longer as well (obviously) seems like its liking 290 GPH the best atm, even at about 240 I notice faster kick ons

[S197]

Ok, for the Prime Current 1/15hp Chiller, When looking at the chiller, the right nozzle is the IN and the left nozzle is the OUT. Chiller works much better that way, and about 270-300GPH works best. So dont bother calling Current USA CSR, just use this info.

[SeeDemTails]

Yeah I use right in and left out. Didnt do it on purpose but mine works great as well.

 

As soon as my pump starts to get gunk up or get clogged, my chiller starts cutting on and off immediately. It means the chiller isnt getting enough flow.

 

My 1/15th is cooling atleast 30 gallons of water heated by two 150w halides powered by the mj 900, if it can handle that with that pump, most of the other applications you guys are discussing would work fine.

[hollow]

I've noticed my 1/15 prime chiller started short cycling recently, turning back on maybe a minute after it turns off and it only runs for 2-3 minutes. I've had the differential set at 4. I think the digital temp sensor in this thing is wacky. I'm thinking about switching out my mj1200 for a MJ900 or 600 to see if i get better results with one of them. Currently my tank temp is perfect but I know that its not good for the compressor to be kicking on and off like it is. From what support said you want at least 5 minutes on and then 5 minutes off for the compressor.

 

As for the input/output mine is reversed. Current says it doesn't matter which port you use. Although I am curious where its getting the chiller temp reading from.

[dflash]

Thank you all for the info provided.. has helped a great deal..

 

Eli

[SeeDemTails]

Hollow, when was the last time you cleaned the pump or the AIR filter intake for the chiller itself?

 

It is very important to regularly clean the chillers air filter so it doesnt get messed up.

[hollow]

Hollow, when was the last time you cleaned the pump or the AIR filter intake for the chiller itself?

 

It is very important to regularly clean the chillers air filter so it doesnt get messed up.

 

 

Clean it every few days. I actually messed with the chiller yesterday night took out the pump cleaned it, cleaned my backchamber, flushed the chiller, adjusted the pumps position and now it seems to stay on 7+ minutes and doesnt come back on for 7+ minutes which is a definite improvement. Currents support told me 5 minutes was what was needed for the compressor. I'm still thinking about the MJ900 though. Sadfully I think its the same size as the 1200 but with just less voltage. My back chamber is kind of cramped and would like something just a tad bit smaller.

[S197]

I've noticed my 1/15 prime chiller started short cycling recently, turning back on maybe a minute after it turns off and it only runs for 2-3 minutes. I've had the differential set at 4. I think the digital temp sensor in this thing is wacky. I'm thinking about switching out my mj1200 for a MJ900 or 600 to see if i get better results with one of them. Currently my tank temp is perfect but I know that its not good for the compressor to be kicking on and off like it is. From what support said you want at least 5 minutes on and then 5 minutes off for the compressor.

 

As for the input/output mine is reversed. Current says it doesn't matter which port you use. Although I am curious where its getting the chiller temp reading from.

 

put a ball valve on your return tube, which is what I did, so u can play with the flow. A lot cheaper then buying another pump just to test it.

[SeeDemTails]

I dont get whey you would want less flow. The bigger pump is better. If I had another mj 1200, I would be using it.

 

Yes, they are the same size. I cut the intake nozzle part off of mine, so it would fit in the outflow part of the aqua c remora overflow box.

[hollow]

I dont get whey you would want less flow. The bigger pump is better. If I had another mj 1200, I would be using it.

 

Yes, they are the same size. I cut the intake nozzle part off of mine, so it would fit in the outflow part of the aqua c remora overflow box.

 

 

Well because at times it seems my chiller cools my water too fast. I'd rather it run longer and spare the compressor. After flushing the chiller and cleaning the pump it now seems to stay on at least 10 minutes and stays off for at least 10 minutes which is fine but its going to be a PIA if I have to readjust my pump every month to keep my chiller from short cycling. The skimmer chamber in my RSM is fricking stuffed. Between my media rack, tunze skimmer, and ATO sensor it was an act of god to get the MJ1200 in there and I make a huge mess everytime I try to get it out. I really wish I had a sump so I could put the skimmer in there instead.

 

I'd really like to get a quiet external pump instead of an internal pump for the chiller definetely save on space. I tried an EHEIM but it wasn't self priming so it was also a PIA.