Setup Help

[green_ariel]

Hello. I am a noob to saltwater having owned only various FW aquariums. I am hoping to set up a 40 Gallon Breeder or somthing like that. I am only however 16 years old. So price is somwhat as an issue.

 

First off I do not wish to have a fuge or sump in a seperate tank below. I know it sounds stupid but my mother is like..oh that looks stupid and dirty. So thats Not an option. I dont need help in the Heater, powerheads, or tank areas only filters, skimmers and lights. Although i think I am going to get the 150 W Sunpod Im hoping to find a cheaper one. So if anyone is bored could you make me a list of items. Price range for equiptment would be around 6-700. Thanks alot everyone.

 

A smaller tank would be another option. Play around a little.

 

So far I am thinking The tank, Korilla 3, Ac110, random heater.

[filefish949]

a fuge is optional ...for now, but get a sump, you will be handcuffed without one, the bigger the tank, (up to 60-100 gallons) the easier it is to keep

[lakshwadeep]

I assume that your "korilla" is referring to Hydor's Koralia powerheads. In that case, you shouldn't get a single Koralia 3 but instead get two or more of the smaller koralias. This is more expensive, but good flow comes from having multiple outlets to randomize the current.

 

Look at this site below. It is very helpful on price differences between fw and sw.

http://www.fishlore.com/saltwatervsfreshwater.htm

Only difference I would say is that a skimmer is necessary if you're keeping SPS and clams that need high water quality or if you're unwilling to do weekly 10-20% water changes.

[green_ariel]

I am not keeping SPS or Clams. Also 20% Weekly water changes are not a problem. Do I still need a skimmer. Also Im still not a fan of having to drill holes in a tank. Please help. If nessisary I could Get a smaller Tank

[lakshwadeep]

Stick with your 40 gallon since it is generally more forgiving on noob mistakes (mainly # of fish). No you don't need a skimmer, but it will be helpful.

 

 

You don't have to drill a tank to have a sump. Check out melev's great info which uses an overflow instead of drilling (check "closed loop"):

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

Go to the bottom of his page for links to his 3 part article on sumps.

[green_ariel]

Basiclly I have 600 dollars. Throw some options at me. Not a fan of all in ones due to amount of modding needed to get up to exectations.

[jeremai]

Buy the tank, then the sand, rocks and salt. Get some pumps and lights next, those two things can vary in price and power depending on what you'd like to keep. After that get corals, then down the line a couple fish (the order of those two is a personal preference, I prefer fish second).

 

I would actually recommend a 20g tank. Smaller tanks give you more bang for the buck as far as stocking and lighting go, and if you are asking for advice now and are willing to do the water changes weekly I think you are dedicated enough for the smaller tank (in other words, you might not need the larger volume to cover noob mistakes).

 

Take a look through the member's section and find some setups you like. If they haven't posted it, PM the members and get an idea of what it cost them. I think $600 could get you a pretty kick-ass setup, especially in a 20g or 29g.

 

Good luck!

[green_ariel]

Thanks alot. I like your Idea. Yes lighing is the only real issue. I was thinking the lower 30g long But i prefer the higher aquascaping. So many options

[lakshwadeep]

If you want a simple setup, then just get a tank with all that is listed for the "saltwater system" in my first link except for the skimmer (that $ can go to the light). You can wait (or ignore completely) for the QT tank until you're adding corals (most nano fish are fairly disease resistant). Also, get a refractometer instead of the hydrometer for accurate salinity measurement like this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...amp;pcatid=9957

 

Check your local reef club's forums for people selling there tanks and live rock. This is usually very cheap (around $3/lb) and can be of a high quality. Aim for at least 1 pound per gallon; you could lower that with limitations on what bioload-# of fish-can be handled. This also depends on how porous or dense the rock is. It may be best to just start with a 20 gallon tank (a 20 long is great) to try out a marine tank without spending too much.

[green_ariel]

30 gallon long: $40

Hydra Koralia nano (x2): $80

Ac110 with live sand, rock, pad, and chato : 70$

Light: ??

[nanoty]

30 gallon long: $40

Hydra Koralia nano (x2): $80

Ac110 with live sand, rock, pad, and chato : 70$

Light: eleventy billion dollars

[filefish949]

or keep an eye out for a used setup, in that department $600 will go a Looooong way

[sur4die]

craigslist

craigslist

craigslist

 

there are always people breaking down old systems on craigslist. they are great sources for everything from LR to lighting to tanks to livestock.

 

as much as you think you might save doing it yourself, it always costs more in the "do over" department if you rush.

 

and if you do decide to DIY, dry fit ALL your plumping FIRST.

 

i would say grab a ~20g display tank, stand with doors to hide the sump, and just grab a 20$ rubbermaid bin for a sump.

[clownfish1124]

also, fishneedit.com has some cheaper light fixtures. they seem to be of a decent quality at a great price.

[green_ariel]

Thank Everyone. I ve decided to go with the 30 G Long. I so Far can order.

 

Kroalia 1-400gph

Koralia Nano-275gph

Mag Float Glass Cleaner

Red sea Master Reef Lab

Carib Sea Ocean Direct Live Sand- 40lbs

Red Sea Marine Mix-200gallons

 

All that comes to $317.25 Canadian Dollars Shipped to Toronto. Worth it?

Then all I need is the Tank: $30

I have a stand

Light??

Refractometer.- $90

Filter Ac110- $75

 

Now that I add it all up doesnt seem like that good of a deal.

[sur4die]

i would really try to find the sand and salt locally. that can't be cheap to ship.

 

also i just got a refractometer from national instrument supply (nis) on ebay. it works great and was only like 40$

 

a 30G long is 48" which makes it a great candidate for t5 lighting.

 

you don't really need the HOB filter. i'd skip it.

 

you need to budget for live rock, that's going to act as your filter and it's 3-5$ per pound @ 1 pound per gallon. so ~120$

 

you need to go to your LFS and window shop. it's almost always cheaper to get the big things (rocks, sand, tank) locally.

[nanoty]

i would really try to find the sand and salt locally. that can't be cheap to ship.

 

also i just got a refractometer from national instrument supply (nis) on ebay. it works great and was only like 40$

 

a 30G long is 48" which makes it a great candidate for t5 lighting.

 

you don't really need the HOB filter. i'd skip it.

 

you need to budget for live rock, that's going to act as your filter and it's 3-5$ per pound @ 1 pound per gallon. so ~120$

 

you need to go to your LFS and window shop. it's almost always cheaper to get the big things (rocks, sand, tank) locally.

 

I agree that spending money on the LR is more important than the HOB. Maybe save your money for a HOB fuge or something.

 

BTW a 30 long is actually 36" long, well all the 30L in my living room is anyways.

[lakshwadeep]

+1 to sur4die. You shouldn't think that a HOB filter is necessary for filtration (DIY refugium is okay).

 

Don't get live sand online. Also, live sand sold in commercial bags is just a gimmick. Actual live sand is expensive to ship (like live rock). The easiest, and also cheapest, way to get enough live sand is to just buy bags of dry sand (not crushed coral) and then add a few cups of live sand from an established reef (either a local reefer or LFS).

 

As sur4die stated, live rock is very important to the standard "natural filtration" method used by nano-reefers and large tank owners alike. Live rock, along with easily accessed and accurate information, is probably the most important reason to the success of our hobby. It can be tempting to use only a HOB or canister filter like freshwater tanks, but for reefs, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates must be effectively reduced to zero (or near zero for nitrates) concentrations. Live rock, like live sand, can be made up of mainly "base" rock (even dry) with a few premium pieces to add diversity. However, this will lengthen the cycle (sometimes considerably).

 

Don't get the Red Sea test kit; members have noted inaccurate measurements. A good alternative is API's Saltwater Master test kit and Reef Master test kit. At the very least, get the Saltwater Master kit.

[sur4die]

BTW a 30 long is actually 36" long, well all the 30L in my living room is anyways.

 

oh, right. a 40L is 48"

 

still they make T5 in 36 inch, right?

 

if i had that type of tank i would probably want this type of a light

http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp?PageA...amp;ProdID=1356

2 39w actinic t5 and a 250 MH in the middle. i don't know if that's the cheapest place to get it though...

[green_ariel]

Hey thanks a lot. Ya I understand about the shipping. This place is like 5 minutes away so I can pick up. As far as the light Iv decided on the Current usa Nova extreme 36" T5 light. I found it for 250 shipped. Would this ligh be sufficient?

[sur4die]

Hey thanks a lot. Ya I understand about the shipping. This place is like 5 minutes away so I can pick up. As far as the light Iv decided on the Current usa Nova extreme 36" T5 light. I found it for 250 shipped. Would this ligh be sufficient?

 

250!?

 

your google-foo is weak

http://www.google.com/products?q=Current+u...=N&start=10

 

i think that's about half the wattage that you need though.

[lakshwadeep]

The Nova Extreme is an okay introductory fixture, but for that price, you could get a nice retrofit kit from reefgeek.com with individual reflectors (around $275). Here's a reply I gave to another person with T5 questions.

 

to nano-reef.com

 

T5s are great lighting sources and generally much better than PCs (power compact fluorescent). I suggest avoiding a one or two bulb fixture as offered by Hagen. For a 20 gallon high, the tank length is 24", and a 4 bulb fixture can easily fit.

 

A major difference between T5s and other lights (like PCs) is that they have many bulbs which can offer spectrums tailored to both color (like actinics) and growth (like "regular" 10,000K daylights). ATI makes two very useful bulbs: the 12,000K aquablue special that gives great growth in terms of PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) and the blue plus which also has some PAR but removes the necessity of actinics. An easy way to have good lighting is to get 2 aquablue specials and 2 blue pluses.

 

You shouldn't leave T5s on at night since even one is too bright. Turn on the blue pluses for 12 hours and the aquablue specials for 10 hours (starting one hour after the blue pluses). This will form a dusk and dawn, and you can start the bulbs in the late morning if you will be mainly viewing in the evening. There aren't "lunar day/night" options except using blue LEDs to act as moonlights.

 

Okay, there are many setups offered, and I'll try to explain them:

 

First: Reflectors and the T5's naturally thin tube shape ("T5" means "tubular" fluorescent and "5/8ths of an inch" diameter) are what allows them to (sometimes) rival metal halides in terms of what corals/clams can be kept. T5s are very efficient among fluorescents at converting power (watts) into light, and that's another reason why the old watts-per-gallon rules are not useful when comparing different lighting systems.

 

The most basic and cheap setups use a single flat reflector with the bulbs placed close together. An example is Current USA's Nova Extreme. Many members say "they're only as good as PCs", but they probably are still better. A big step up is "individually contoured" reflectors such as those on the Nova Extreme Pro and Current Sundial (also, presumably, fishneedit fixtures). These still have one reflector but it has been folded into ridges between the bulbs. This helps to reflect light emitted from the sides and back of the bulb into the tank. "Individual (parabolic) reflectors" are what most people here will agree is the true benefit of T5s for high-light corals like SPS and also clams. These can be found on high end fixtures like ATI powermodules, Aquactinic TX5s (5 bulb fixture that is curved like a semicircle), and Sunlight Supply TEK fixtures. Alternatively, TEK 2 reflectors and Icecap SLR reflectors can be purchased separately to make low-cost retrofit kits (has no cover/enclosure). PCs, which almost always have flat reflectors, look similar in diameter to T5s, but their twin bulbs are too close to each other.

 

If you're looking for a good low-cost fixture, get a sundial or nova extreme pro. Remember to switch out the bulbs since actinic bulbs are mainly for color with little growth compared to the ATI blue pluses. Only Current offers bulbs for the 20" nova extreme pro, so you should try to avoid it until more manufacturers make the smaller bulbs. For better lighting at the "same energy price", get a fixture (either complete or retro-fit) with individual reflectors. I have the 4x24W retrofit with Icecap reflectors from reefgeek.com. Reefgeek also has the ATI bulbs and also ATI and TEK fixtures (and TEK retrofits).

 

link:

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/

[filefish949]

have you lookesd at the WTS posts here? there are some very good values, lots of times you can get som nice livestock localy for cheep

[green_ariel]

Ya the problem is Im located in Canada. Thank for the suggestion. As far as a light The nova extreme 4x 39W Should be fine because im only looking to keep low light corals and also Its a low tank. This should be all the info I need. Ive been doing a lot of research and Im going to start in september.