A good calcium additive?

[squirrelieygrrrl]

hey there,

 

so i had a low ca reading about 3 days ago, it came out at 380 ppm, which is not incredibly low. so i dosed with kalkwasser to top off my tank, using about 12oz. i tested again the next morning only to find that the calcium had plummeted further, down to about 300 ppm. now i have never had any calcium instability issues before. it has always been fairly stable ranging between 400-450ppm. the same day that i tested and got the reading of 300ppm. i dosed again with the kalk using the same amount as before. today again i ran all of my tests and here are the results. i am using a red sea master and reef lab. now i know that these test kits are reputed as being unreliable, so i tested 3 times to be certain of my results. once they are used up i am planning on purchasing a better one. for right now im working with what i have.

 

•ph - 8.0 (has been stable here)

•alk - 3.6-4.0meq/l (3.6 being the limit of my test kit)

•calcium - 250 (yikes!)

•ammonia - 0ppm (stable)

•nitrite - 0-0.01ppm (usually at 0)

•nitrate - <2.5 ppm

•phosphate - 0.05-0.1(usually at 0 also)

•temp - 78

•sg - 1.024

 

 

i have been pouring over my water chemistry book, and threads on here to try and find an answer. the only other thing i noticed about the tank is that there is some precipitate forming at the water line in the tank. any ideas? many thanks

 

 

 

 

Ok, so i figured it out, apparently my lfs told me wrong (not a big surprise there) they had instructed me to add kents dkh buffer when i got both low alk and ph levels, which some times happens in a fresh batch of salt. so to prevent it from swinging in the tank, i was adding it directly to my fresh mix. i believe that it swung my alk too high causing the calcium to precipitate. so in short it was another n00bish mistake on my part.

 

does any one have a suggestion on a good calcium supplement? does it have to be a 2 part? or can i continue using the dkh in conjunction with a different calcium supplement?

 

many thanks again!

 

~squirrel

[Phixion]

I'm thinking your Ca test might be faulty... I'd get another one (the API Ca test kit is decent and I've used it before) and see how "2nd opinion" tests out. Also if you're seeing something percipitating it's possible that it's Ca which would mean it's actually through the roof! Your alk is on the higher side too!

[Mr. Fosi]

Another place to check for precipitate is on your pump impellers and heater. If you see precipitate there, your calkalk is too high.

[SPS20]

You added too much, too fast, and caused a precipitation event. You need to add a Calcium supplement such as Calium Chloride to your tank, without adding any alkalinity. If your Alk levels are too high, your Calcium will be difficult or impossible to keep high enough. The reverse is true as well.

 

Also, ditch the color-matching Alk test kit and get a titration-based one such as sold by API (and others). There is no limit to how high they can measure, and they are very accurate and easy to administer.

 

If I were you, this would be my plan of attack:

1. Do a large water change, 50% or greater. (be very careful to match salinity and temperature as closely as possible)

2. Remeasure your parameters.

3. Get yourself a calcium supplement. NOT kalkwasser, that's how you got where you are in the first place.

4. Add enough to raise your Ca+ level by about 10-20ppm every day until you are back to where you need to be.

5. Monitor your Alk carefully, and let it fall back down a bit. Don't start supplementing it again until you reach NSW levels.

 

And read these articles:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php

 

Good luck!

- Josh

[squirrelieygrrrl]

lol

 

its funny, if you look at my first post i edited it just after you guys answered me. i had found some one elses previous post with problems very similar to mine. which just happened to have the same articles that SPS20 posted. so i realize the error in my dosing. doh!

 

phixion,

 

i am planning on getting a better test kit in a few days. my bday is on the 5th so ill buy them then once i have a little extra cash. im thinking about getting a salifert test kit, as i hear good things about thier brand on here. my question is, is it worth the extra money to get the salifert one over api's test kit? i like that the salifert one does both sw and fw, as ive ran out of a few fw tests too.

 

Mr. Fosi,

 

thank you for answering me as well. there is some precipitate forming on the heater, but not as much as whats at the water level. i do think my alk is a little too high, its at the end of my test kits range. poo!

 

and last but not least SPS20,

 

id also like to thank you answering me! you guys are prompt! i agree that the color matching test is awful, its terribly hard to tell what the reading is because it depends on what light im in at the time i test. and there are colors that fall in between the numbered ranges of the test. (i now understand about cheaping out on supplies)

 

i will preform the water change tomorrow, if things will be ok for now. i have to mix a fresh batch of water and my ro/di filter only does 2.5 gal at a time. so it takes a while for a salt mix to happen. i need to start keeping a batch ready at all times. thanks for the articles.

 

 

i do have a water chemistry book titled: Water Chemistry for the Marine Aquarium - by John H. Tullock. but some of the information is a little over my head. i did major in wild life biology when i was in college but chemistry wasn't my strong suit by any means. i do like how those articles use layman's terms to explain things. do you guys have a recommended calcium supplement? should it be a 2 part solution? or can i just get a calcium chloride additive and use the dkh for the alk supplement? will things be ok for a few days with just a water change preformed and using the same test results? i wont have any extra cash until the 5th. also the nearest lfs with reef supplies is a 2 and a half hour drive. so we have to make time to go up there. thanks again Phixion, Mr.Fosi, and SPS20 for your speedy and expeditious responses. what would we n00b reffers do with out knowledgeable people out there like you! i salute you all.

 

many thanks

 

~squirrel

 

ps: sorry for the late response my hubby had to use the phone and were on dialup with one line.

[squirrelieygrrrl]

bump!

 

geez, dont ditch out on me now!

[Mr. Fosi]

If you don't have the $$ for new chems or the drive to the LFS, stick with waterchanges or...

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2004/chem.htm

 

Or get your calk/alk back where it should be and slow down with the kalk.

[squirrelieygrrrl]

thanks Mr. Fosi,

 

lol, i felt left hangin there for a sec. will do a water change, as you recommended. i would use that home made recipe but to get calcium chloride is also a 2 and a half hour drive, and i dont have a car so i have to wait untill sat when my hubby has a day off. ordering the supplies on line would take about the same amount of time. so hence the need to schedule a drive up there. should i be concerned about the current imbalance? is it detrimental? will things be ok for the time being with just water changes preformed? do i need to remove the precipitate from my tank? so many questions! lol

 

~squirrel

[Phixion]

The Salifert kits aren't bad. Some of the best out there actially many will say. I recently myself bought the Tropic Marin Ca/Mg combo test kit from Marine Depot and it's pretty good. Elos also makes great kits, though they are pricey even compared to Salifert, lol!

 

As I may not be on here the next couple of days, happy early birthday!

[squirrelieygrrrl]

thanks phixion,

 

ill be a whopping quarter of a century! i did price test kits out there, and yes elios is a little out of my price range ill look into the tropic/marin test kits as well. thanks for the tip. do you think things will be able to hang in there till sat with just water changes preformed? do you know if i need to remove the precipitate from the glass and heater? how would i do such a thing if it is indeed needed? also can you recommend a good calcium chloride supplement? another thing, should i be worried about the small levels of phosphate causing precipitation as well?

[Phixion]

25 isn't so bad.

 

Elos is out of my range too. But you should be fine till Saturday with just water changes. I don't believe phosphate percipitates though.

[squirrelieygrrrl]

it does indeed, or according to my water chemistry book it does. here i will quote it.....

 

"Besides aiding the in maintenance of ph, alkalinity, and calcium concentration, addition of lime water to the mini reef has other benefits. One is the nearly complete precipitation of phosphate (P04 3-). phosphate interferes with the calcification because it is a crystal poison. If phosphate is incorporated into the developing skeletal lattice, formation of calcium carbonate crystals is inhibited. Phosphate is detrimental to corals under natural conditions if present in excess. Furthermore undesirable algae growth is almost always a consequence of excess phosphate" Water Cemistry for the Marine Aquarium-John H. Tullok

 

 

can you recommend a good calcium supplement?

Should i remove the calcium precipitate from the glass and heater? Should i be concerned about it being in the tank after i remove it?

 

many thanks

 

~squirrel

[Mr. Fosi]

can you recommend a good calcium supplement?

 

Aside from a 2-part? Kalk.

 

Should i remove the calcium precipitate from the glass and heater?

 

Only if you think it is interfering with the heaters ability to do its job.

 

Should i be concerned about it being in the tank after i remove it?

 

Not sure what you mean here.

[squirrelieygrrrl]

well then how bout a good 2 part. i dont know much about what products are good. a few of the books i have all say kalk, so thats what ive been using. i guess i wont bother removing the precipitate from the glass then, about leaving it in the tank, i wasnt sure if the precipitate had compounds in it that could possibly be harmful. i see your doing your phd work in bio, as i read your tank thread. lol, i unfortunately never made it past my second year, so the chemistry i learned is a little hazy at best. thanks again.

[bluebastion]

For smaller tanks like ours, two part solutions are best. I use B-Ionic by ESV... but only when I'm a good boy.

[cmador]

Humboldt County - I've heard good things.

 

For a good 2 part I would recommend b-ionic or Randy's two part that you make yourself. For Randy's try here - http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/. I've used both with good results. Good Luck.

[squirrelieygrrrl]

For smaller tanks like ours, two part solutions are best. I use B-Ionic by ESV... but only when I'm a good boy.

 

good boy huh? im almost afraid to ask ....thanks for the product recommendation though

 

Humboldt County - I've heard good things.

 

For a good 2 part I would recommend b-ionic or Randy's two part that you make yourself. For Randy's try here - http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/. I've used both with good results. Good Luck.

 

i think i will go with B-ionic, because i think ive seen it at my lfs before. humboldt is goregous i wouldnt live any where else, peroid!

 

thanks again guys

 

~squirrel

[bdare]

I used to live in Chico and DEFINITELY found an appreciation for Humbolt while I was in college there.