Marine Environment Salt = expensive garbage?

[dickwayne]

2nd Edit:

So that others don't have to read everything else, here is my conclusion:

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=216478

 

In short, someone was having the same problems as myself. They contacted Aquacraft, who told them Salifert test kits were incompatable with their salt. WTF?

So, Habib, the owner of Salifert, helped work out the situation using another test kit, which produced the same results. It was also said that Salifert's kits were designed for use with NSW, which means Marine Envionment probably deviates heavily from NSW properties.

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Edit:

I would like to make the point of this thread clear. It is not to bash any sort of salt. Many people are lead to beleive that regular water changes can replace vital trace elements. I would like to know which salt is the most useful for this.

I ONLY want concrete test results from the limited tests that normal reefers like ourselves can perform. If you do not have experience with a salt to contradict someones claims, do not post.

THIS IS NOT an "I use this salt, so it is good thread." Please, provide concrete results from freshly mixed salt water, with no additives introduced so that readers can make their own conclusions.

Please do not post results from questionable sources, such as the s-15 report or quotes from salt bags. Do not provide links to complicated articles, either, because I do not want the average reader to be turned off.

I see a possablity that this could become a very useful thread, so please, post away!

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After reading and posting on ANOTHER salt thread, I thought I might test out my water that I'm currently mixing up.

 

I'm using Marine Environment Salt, approx 2.5 gallons, mixed to a SG of 1.025. It was sitting about 4 hours before I tested.

So here are my results from the few tests I performed:

PH 9.0 (color double checked by GF)

phosphate .03ppm

now here's the s**t

calcium 240ppm

magnesium 660 ppm

 

What the hell? Granted, I havn't added the bottle contents yet, BUT, from the aquacraft website:

The contents of part #2, The "little bottle ,™ (Marine Environment Supplements™) was not analyzed separately or when mixed with part #1. As evidenced by the report below, Marine Environment, Part #1 has more than any other brands of salts tested. The addition of part #2 makes this product the most sophisticated ever produced.

 

Could someone else using this salt test their water and tell me the results? I hope that I am retarded and doing my tests wrong.

 

 

On a second note:

I have never seen a thread where anyone has posted test results to freshly mixed water like this. Its always a "my salt is better then yours thread."

So, if you have the chance to test your new SW, please add to this thread. If this has already been done (by normal people like ourselves, not reports by Dr's, labs , or salt package quotes) please direct me to the right location.

[Fant]

well first off. your testing methods are shoddy. Sorry but pH kits that are a titration test and result in you looking at a color chart are junk.. Get a quality pH meter. Second any hobbyist grade phosphate kit is also a joke. And third.. be sure to use a quality and accurate hydrometer/refractometer. If you mix the salt to say 1.025 as per your hydrometer and in actuality its only 1.022 then youv esentially created a dilute silution of all ions. Which would/could explain the other low readings. The already bad situation would be compounded when/if u attempted to raise individual ions.

 

Iv never personaly used the marine environment. Do the fact that you shouldnt mix partial batches. If u buy a 25gal bag.. should the entire bag at one time.

[Jandree22]

Originally posted by Fant

Do the fact that you shouldnt mix partial batches. If u buy a 25gal bag.. should the entire bag at one time.

 

huh????

[Crakeur]

I use ME and that stupid little bottle. Water parameters all test perfect.

 

Calcium is a bit low but that is being raised thru the use of C-Balance.

[dickwayne]

My PH test is not a titration, although, I do admit it could be crap. My phosphate kit is Salifert, a reputable brand, and while I could be reading it wrong, there is color there, which means the phosphate is higher than none. And I did test my RO water first, no PO4 there.

The Mg and Ca tests are titrations, however, the magnesium test being a Salifert test, the calcium being a seatest. I would also say that titrating an unknown substance (water) against a primary standard is one of the most accurate ways of testing chemicals.

Lastly, as far as mixing salt goes, my LFS does not sell 25g bags of salt, they sell 50g bags. And I only change 2g a week, which leaves a big problem, leaving 48 gallons of salt water laying around my apartment. Also, I recall MDP saying that having a homogenus mixture of salt is very important, so it should not matter how much is mixed at one time because the distrubution should be uniform. But this is not the point of the thread.

 

I am posting in hopes that someone else with experinence with this salt can tell me the results of any similar tests that they have ran, then I can compare my reslts. Or, if anyone has run similar tests on any other salt, I would be interested in seeing the results from those as well. I would like to know how a salt's actual quality compares to the manufacture's claims.

[dickwayne]

Crakeur, I got your PM, and as soon as I get home I will try your suggestion. I will allow a day or so for everything to settle and mix well, and hopefully I can post my new results tommorrow night.

 

For anyone else interested in this thread, the suggestion from Crakeur is to mix all the salt into 5 gallons of water, store it, then extract small amounts and dilute as necessary. If the salt is not homogenus, which is possable, this would eliminate the problem. Also, my girlfriend will not kick my butt for leaving a small kiddie pool full of salt water laying around!

 

If anyone else has done tests on their salt, please post them instead of waiting around for me! zzz

[dickwayne]

No one else tests their salt before they change their water?

 

After checking my salt again, I came to the same low results as before. Here's an interesting thread I came upon for those interested

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=216478

 

In short, someone was having the same problems as myself. They contacted Aquacraft, who told them Salifert test kits were incompatable with their salt. WTF?

So, Habib, the owner of Salifert, helped work out the situation using another test kit, which produced the same results. It was also said that Salifert's kits were designed for use with NSW, which means Marine Envionment probably deviates heavily from NSW properties.

[fishbabies]

i only worry about abnormally high pH and phosphates and heavy metals most of all. only since having probs with IO and reading the controversial S-15 did i test for these things....which i probably should have been doing all along. the trace elements i worry less about cuz i know corals will start depleting those in such a small system anyways.

[adinsxq]

Originally posted by Fant

.. be sure to use a quality and accurate hydrometer/refractometer...

so did you?

[SteveC]

Originally posted by dickwayne

In short, someone was having the same problems as myself.  They contacted Aquacraft, who told them Salifert test kits were incompatable with their salt.  WTF?

So, um, dare I ask which test kits are compatible with their salt? Do I need a firmware upgrade on my existing test kit? Is there a vendor patch available that could help me?

[OscarBeast]

I have heard others have trouble with calcium levels as well.

[Tataynic45]

So what salt does everyone have the most success with in general? Is it Instant Ocean??

[apophis924]

I use IO and it works great for me. I read that SF-15 report and i think it is BS. considering I tested the ph of my IO and i got a reading of 8.1 after 1 hour of mixing using a pin point ph meter. I dont know how the SF-15 keeps saying IO has a high ph. MY ca tested about 380, and Mg was 900 both a bit low but nothing i cannot correct after a water change. That is a solution mixed to 1.025 salinity with RO/DI water reading 0.0 on a TDS meter. As far as toxic trace metals, well I think that is over blown just like the hoopla over silica in a reef tank, Hell the Tank is made of Glass (silica), you dont see every glass tank having explsoive diatoms. I wont switch from IO unless i start getting some bad events taking place in my tank. Besides i cant beat the price I got a LFS that sells me a 200 gal bucket of IO for 47$ and that includes the free mini pump with every bucket.

[OscarBeast]

I just ordered two buckets of IO shipped with tax for $62.91 from petsmart using the FREE50SHIP promotion code. MUhahahahah.

[apophis924]

Alright OscarBeast sticking to da man!! :pirate:

[Tataynic45]

Well IO can't be a placebo because so far many aquarist have thriving reef tanks. Anyone tryed Reef crystals or Tropicmarin???