Beginner Intimidation

[Ulua]

Thanks for the great site.

 

I have been doing some reading and i want to start a nano. Slowly so I do it right. But I am kind of intimidated and frustrated and need to vent and get some thoughts.

 

I am getting some books and looking at a couple of possible set ups. I decieded to go to a couple local fish stores in the area to see what they ahve and ask them some questions. Big mistake. They tell me it is too hard and i should not do it blah blah blah. Taking what they said with a grain of salt, and this forum and the fact that I am a sales person, this is what I got out of it. Am I being too hard on them?

 

A good starter tank is 55 gal = we want to sell you an expensive hood, stand, tank and everyting you need to fill it.

 

You could go smaller even down to a 20 but larger water volumes are easier to maintain = you can neglect your tank for longer periods of time and still keep things alive.

 

They don't make filtration systems for smaller tanks = we want to sell you a wet/dry filtration systema and a protein skimmer.

 

You have more options with a larger tank = we want to sell you more and bigger specimans.

 

A small tank costs more per gallon = pure intimidation/ I could buy everything at costco but I dont need the gallon of mayo and don't have anywhere to keep it either.

 

Somebody should start a page on LFS BS so beginners don't get too intimidated.

 

Shouldn't they be telling me what I need to do to take care of it and not start by telling me what to buy? I could go on but you get the idea.

 

What should my major and minor considerations be as I plan my nano out and what are best practices in setting it up and maintenance/testing etc?

 

Thanks

[fishbabies]

Most LFS employees are fish enthusiasts and simply want to make sure that their babies are going to a good home. I've always found it helpful to go to a LFS that has a nano on display or sells nano equipment.....they will be less sceptical of the nano hobby.

 

in my experiences, besides this site and the articles in the Information section herein, i found www.minibow.com useful. Because all the members' nanos are 7 gallons and their websites follow roughly the same format....you can compare the pix and setups as a gauge to determine the equipment needed for different livestock capacities.

[tinyreef]

i'm still a bit old school in that i also believe you should start with a bigger tank first. BUT you can definitely start nano first but the margin for errors are that much smaller (i.e. tighter learning curve).

 

i went trad-reef then nano (actually, nano FOWLR 1st) and some of the problems i learned off the larger tanks would've definitely translated into full-blown crashes in a nano.

 

on the other hand, it is much cheaper going the nano way. true, the proportion of $$$ is higher on average with nanos than trads but how many people here are going to spend $1000 on their lighting or LR, $400 on a skimmer or the same on a reactor? heck, the smaller volume of wc's alone make nanos much more affordable.

 

btw that's another lfs i would be wary of. :pirate: that lack of filtration for small tanks statement is a flat-out lie. the others are partial truths or misleading truths to lead you astray imo.

[Flipturn88]

Wow, I just went through the same stuff you just explained. I even posted a thread just to vent about it like you did--look for it--it's there .

 

They told me that I NEEDED to get a tank that was minimum of 55 gallons and that no one is capable of owning a nano for long (I felt like screaming COME TO NANO-REEF.COM AND YOU'LL SEE HOW WRONG YOU ARE!). Well I compromised for the sake of owning more/bigger fish and ended up getting a 46 gal bowfront.

 

I probably shouldn't be hanging out around here anymore--46 gal ain't much of a nano... but everyone here gave me so much help when I was a newbie (heck, I'll always be a newbie) that I depend on his or her opinions for advice.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't listen to all of the LFS's opinions. True, most want what's best for their fish, and that might mean a bigger tank for a smaller margin of error. Yet it also means a whole lot more $$$, which is their whole purpose of setting up shop...right?

 

But IMHO I think it IS possible for a newbie to have a nano. I know someone who had never owned a fish before in their life (not even a 10-cent goldfish) and they now have a successful thriving reef aquarium.

 

You just need to start of by being prepared AHEAD of time... that's the best advice I can give you--which involves reading every saltwater book you can get your hands on. HTH and don't give up... your efforts will definitely be rewarded.

 

~Kayla

 

Whew, this was a long post

[Chamkeeper]

I think a bigger tank is a safety net, in the event something really goes bad in your nano. If you understand that a nano requires an incredible amount of attention, then you should be OK starting with a nano. The fact that you are reading and learning prior to spending precious $$ will give you a big edge. I think most of us have been told nanos are impossible, please draw your own conclusion. The best advice I can give you is to devise an end goal and work backwards. Decide your interests, learn the requirements, and plan accordingly.

[HogWinslow]

I have two LFS. One is a piece of crap that will sell anything to anyone.

 

The other says a reef tank should never be less than 50 gallons. This same store has a 2.5 gallon with nothing but lights, sand, rock, corals and a airstone for water movement. He'll then brag about how it's been running for 3 years and he hardly ever does water changes. It's a nice store but I've givin up shopping there.

 

HogWinslow

[SteveC]

Just to be fair and balanced, here's a quote from Tullock's book:

 

"I have had many an inexperienced person tell me that the only reason dealers recommend larger tanks is that they want to make a bigger sale.   Having been a dealer, I can refute this categorically.  The successful hobbyist is most likely to be a repeat customer, and any good dealer's basic philosophy is to cultivate successful hobbyists.  The consensus among experienced hobbyists is that the greatest likelihood of success with a first-time marine aquarium is to be had with a system of around 40 to 100 gallons."

--John H. Tullock, Natural Reef Aquariums, p. 46

So it's not so much that they're dis'ing you or trying to pressure you into buying more (though I'm sure that sweetens the pie for them at least a little), it's just that they're squares instead of hipsters like us.

[chufa]

This is a case where both arguments are true. Yes, it is true that tanks larger than 55 gallons are better and more stable. And yes, LFS's often abuse this argument in order to make a profit. In any case, while larger tanks are more stable and less demanding in some ways, they are not absolutely necessary, and with the appropriate amount of care you can get away with smaller tanks like most of us here do.

[SteveC]

Several people have mentioned the importance of reading and researching ahead of time and I couldn't agree more. However, you have to keep in mind that probably most of a store's customers do not bother to do this. The aquarium hobby in the industrialized world is huge and the type of people who participate in forums like this and who buy books before they buy tanks and livestock are a tiny, tiny minority.

 

So, put yourself in the shoes of an LFS owner or clerk who deals with clueless people all the time. You probably develop a stock set of answers and recommendations based on what you know about your average customer: a clueless, lazy bum who can't be bothered to pick up a book and read it before plunging into an expensive hobby. How good is that person going to be about regular tank maintenance or choosing livestock carefully? Probably not good at all, right? So if you want them to succeed, you have to sell them the setup that is most likely to absorb their mistakes and neglect.

 

With nano-reefs becoming popular, it wouldn't surprise me if many people hear about them from friends or coworkers (maybe they see one on somebody's desk or in someone's home) and think, Hey, that looks cool! I think I'll get one too! So they rush off to the LFS to spend a lot of money on something that they really can't take care of, because they see it as an affordable choice without realizing that it's more difficult. These people probably should be the ones talked into getting bigger tanks. So, putting myself in the shoes of the LFS people for a minute, I can see their reasoning.

 

The best way to counter all this, IMHO, is to know what you're talking about. Then you don't have to worry what the LFS people think. Also, I really hate to sound sexist, but my experience is that the male LFS workers are the ones more likely to be "know-it-all" types who will try to tell you what to do. The women are usually (though not always) more open minded and they usually know their stuff a lot better than their male counterparts.

[Ulua]

I am the type that likes to support the local shops and so I was looking for one that I can depend on. I would rather buy local and pay a little more than buy from the web. But how do you trust them when they just spit out a bunch of stock answers without trying to educate your customer?

 

At no time did the sales person ask:

 

What my experience with aquariums was.

If I ever had a saltwater tank.

How much research I had done.

What books I had or read.

 

If they went into the bigger tank thing after these or many other possible questions then I would feel like they cared about their customers and their livestock.

 

BTW Just started Tullocks book and it is a great introduction into reefing.

 

Too me his position seems a smaller tank is as much work if not more so get the biggest one you can afford. A larger tank is less prone to changes in the environment and proper water chemistry is easier to maintain. Not to mention that a wider varitey of livestock can be selected.

 

It does put things in a better perspective.

 

Cheers

[Flipturn88]

Wow I must have a great LFS manager then (she just so happends to be a girl Steve). When I told her I was interested in one of her tanks, she asked me how much research I had done, what my experience with sw was, and if I was willing to donate a lot of money to this. Silly me--I whined afterwards because she said that I should start of with a larger, more stable aquarium. Of course at the time my knowledge probably did somewhat warrant her concern. But my tanks nothing big and so far everythings going good. Did I mention there's no water in it yet (but that will change on Saturday)??

 

Ah, well these things take time.