BorgDrone Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Hi, I can not tell if this is normal or not. It's almost a 5 days since I add the perc clown into my Alife 4.6 gal. I didn't pay attention to this on the first day, but now I notice his mouth movement is open and close alot as if he was praying. Is this sign of stress? Or abnormal breathing? Or don't worry about it? In what frequency is it consider normal and abnormal? His fin are opened up like normal fish - not clamped. He is swimming around and looks healthy. No discoloration. No parasites grown on him either like his predecessors. He is swimming in the middle of the aquarium. He seems active. I checked the water, pH seems normal ~ 8.0-8.2. Salinity within normal range too... Are you guys fish doing this too? Thanks. Link to comment
changhsu Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Oh, no! I think its looking for its dad... this is so sad... Hey guys, we need to help them out! Please post pictures of your clown to see if we can match up father and son. [sorry, can't resist, I'll post a legitimate answer later. In the meantime, don't worry.] Link to comment
BorgDrone Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 Hrmm...are you serious? It looks like it's getting worse or that he's hyperventilating or something or super-praying. He just stay around one place now staring at the wall and praying or hyperventilating or something. I think he's stressed out or something. This would be his 5th day in the tank. Should I feed him? If he's stressed out, feeding might get him sicker right? I just checked the pH, salinity, nitrate, nitrite are all in normal range. Any idea? Try turn off the light? Link to comment
BorgDrone Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 Oh sorry I forgot to borrow the digicam, so no pix yet. Thanx. Link to comment
changhsu Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I'm sorry the pun didn't pan out. In the movie Nemo, a clown fish and his dad got separated. It was a big Disney hit this summer, even before it came out, people on every reefing newsgroup were talking about it. Since it came out, *everytime* I was at a LFS, i can hear kids saying "There's Nemo! There's Nemo!.... There's Dori!!!" Before this, I never saw kids give more than 1 minute of attention to those fishes. Regarding your fish. Amen brother! I just checked my clown and noticed that it does "pray" too. Halleluia! [deleted some clown comments on what it might be praying about] Well, you have very good observation, cause i've never noticed that until you mentioned it. That's good, i think once you've done a lot of careful observation, you'll be able to tell what's normal and what's not. But don't be so worried now because you're still in the observation phase of new livestock, you're still trying to determine its normal behavior. As i've mentioned, it can take at least a few days for new livestock to settle down. During this adjustment period, you want to reduce stress and facilitate acclimation by providing a very stable environment. E.g. 1 Regular daylight cycle 2 Regular feeding schedule 3 Constant temp and chemistry 4 Fixed physical and biological environment (e.g. don't do landscaping or introduce new neighbours) This will help stablilize its internal bio-clock, reduce "mental" stress, and house-break it. Avoid sudden disturbances like turning on the lights in the middle of the night, violent vibrations, doing too many water tests, or clowning in front of the tank. I noticed that some of my SW critters, like my Coral Banded Shrimp and clown can see from across the room! Some of my FW critters don't even flinch if i tap on the tank in its face, duh. BTW, healthy fish have good appetites, so make sure you feed it regularly. Poor appetite usually means sickness. Active swimming is good too. Lethargy or shyness can indicate sickness too. Link to comment
BorgDrone Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 Hey thanx for trying and all your suggestions. I found out what the problem was last night. I forgot to check one of the obvious checkpoints. It was the temp!! It's summer and I forgot about saltwater fish are more sensitive then my fancy goldfish. It was around 85F and it took alot to cool down 4.6 gal. I have RO going into the icemaker, so last night, instead of tipping, I threw in 4 piece of RO ice cubes and lift up the hood and fan out the surface with an a/c fan till morning. About 30 min later, it did brought it down to ~78F but he was still paddling like crazy...looks like he was near total stress threshhold. No wonder he was doing his "hyperventilation-mouth movement". I notice, the suggested temp range for clownfish are between 74-78F. Just wondering is it better to have a colder tank in general (like below 74F) than a warmer tank? Anyway, I had to work and go to school today, just got home, but the fish is missing. She said she saw it in there about 2 hours ago sitting near the bottom but don't swim much. I have a serpent starfish in there that the body is about 1.5 inch in diameter wide and a small cleaner shrimp. The wierd thing is I lift it up and look under the rock and in the filters, but could not see the body or flesh anywhere, could that starfish ate it so quick? I tried lifting the starfish up but didn't see any tail sticking out below either. About 7 days ago, another perc dissappear. No NO3 or NO2 spike either up till now. And I didn't see any tail sticking out of the starfish to indicate it eating it either last week. Bermuda Triangle in my tank I think?!? Link to comment
changhsu Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Sorry about your lost. I saw your post on the other thread, so I won't repeat what they were saying. However, you did mention that someone saw your clown lying at the bottom? This means it probably went first on its own before a scavenger came along. I think your serpent star is too small to tackle the fish. Fish can also "carpet surf" but this is ruled out in your case because the fish was witnessed to be down at the bottom. But check your floor, just in case. BTW, coming back to the stable environment in my 1st reply. I think going from 85 to 78 F in 30 min might have stressed the fish more instead of relieving it. Also be really careful about the use of ice cubes. They can give *both* a thermal and chemical shock to critters nearby. 1 Extremes (hyper/hypo thermia, chemistry, food/light starvation) 2 Sudden fluctuations These are 2 different things that can cause stress and death. When you are trying to fix 1, do it slowly so that you won't cause 2. Fish can tolerate thermal and chemical extremes better than inverts. But sudden fluctuations during adjustments is a double whammy and can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Link to comment
changhsu Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I forgot, i think the optimal temp is around 80 plus/minus 2. Can someone else comment? 74 is too cold. Neither a colder or warmer tank is good, extremes are not good. BTW, the disappearance of 2 fish in 1 week *without* a trace is not good. If its just a simple problem like overheating etc, you'll see a dead body. Make sure your fish can't carpet surf. Make sure you don't have mantis shrimp. Try to figure out what went wrong before getting another fish. Try RC, i bet they have similar cases. Link to comment
BorgDrone Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 Wow! Thanx for the load of info and answering my questions. Hey guess what, I was lifting the brittle serpent starfish upside down in the tank to see if he has any tail sticking out...but none. I noticed he seem fatter then usual. A few min later I see a shrimp chasing him to get something under the rock. Guess what I saw under the rock? The corpse of my clownfish...and the starfish did seem "shrunk" a little bit. So it looked like the starfish has capability to store it inside its stomach whole and stretch its stomach if necessary. I think it took advantage on the weak clowny and rape him maybe then cannanbilize him while he rest in one place. My mom said it was still swimming alittle when she last saw him. So I gave the starfish to my LFS, now nothing in my tank should dissappear without a trace or at least it should be that way...if so...then i'll track it down. I wish my clowny was a borg. You said below 74 is not good...I wonder how do wild clown survive in the cold ocean at night or in winter season? Link to comment
changhsu Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Most of them are tropical fish. They come from the tropics ("paradise"), where its usually nice, sunny, and warm. Near the equator, the temp stays pretty much the same 24hrs and year round. Well, i'm glad you solved your mystery. Here's a nice ending to your story, hope it'll cheer you up a little... All clowns come from paradise, all clowns go to Paradise. [inspired by the movie name "All dogs go to heaven"] Link to comment
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