B-Ionic Users, Help Needed

[Weetabix7]

Do you find that you need to dose with it daily or every other day, or how frequently do you personally dose with it?

I just started using it and still getting some stuff down.

I test every morning before I dose, and today is the first day that my Alk was in a place that didn't look like it needed raising (3.75-4.0 meq/l) and I wasn't sure if I should go ahead and dose a small amount or not.

Any input appreciated, thanks in advance.

[tinyreef]

eventually you'll need to adjust your dosages according to what your system's actually utilizing once you've hit 'optimal' levels.

 

when you first start dosing a setup with two-parters, you're trying to reach our typical 'optimal' levels for ca/alk. that may not necessarily be the same as the salt mix or where your system's at at that time. chances are the alk side hit's first or is noticed first as the carbonate saturates and stays as 'snow' for a little while.

 

but eventually you will hit a wall on one or both of the parts and have to readjust from the recommended dosages. i liken it to how you treat a growing large dog. as a puppy it needs certain amounts and types of food/nutrients/activity. but as it grows (like our tanks) its needs change. imo, our tanks are as dynamic (or moreso!) than a living animal as they're living ecosystems.

 

for my own setups regarding two-parters and other supplement methods, they've usually gone from requiring recommended daily doses to smaller daily doses to weekly doses to skewed doses (e.g. 1/4-alk and 4-parts ca). so if you're actually testing the levels, i'd go with that as your guidance and dose accordingly. (for me, i always was too lazy to test and just went by visual interaction of the alk part letting the ca part take care of itself ) <- not recommended procedure!

 

hth

[beeker]

i does daily, i find that a weekly water change skews my Alk Cal and Mg to a small degree

 

In my 5.5 i'm dosing 1.5 ml of alk and cal daily along with 6ml of mg because my mg was 300ppm low when i first tested it, and it's at 1250ppm now, but i still haven't done my weekly water change yet so i'll have to adjust it from there

 

With weekly water changes, i started dosing at 1ml of both daily and have moved it up as i continue to stock my tank

[Weetabix7]

If my Alk is fine and my Ca is still low, can I dose the Ca part with no adverse affects?

I'm guessing yes, but wanted to make sure.

My Mag is at 1350 right now, btw.

 

Tiny, are you saying that you continue to dose Alk until you get a cloudy "snow" effect, then back off?

I've personally been testing it. I've been shooting for 3.5-4 meq/l and it looks like it's between 3.75-4 meq/l today. Any recommendations there?

[tinyreef]

yes, i think eventually you'll be changing your dosages. i believe atmospheric CO2 interaction contributes to carbonate so that "part" is somewhat naturally supplemented. whereas ca needs to be continually added as there's no atmospheric source (hence, i don't believe one can truly reef without additional additives, specifically calcium - see other advanced thread).

 

yes, the "snow" point is my threshold. but that is also dependent on flow as the typical alk dosing can create a localized supersaturation in low-flow zones, which can be seen as precipitate. i think this often occurs in salt batch mixings and shows up as "white chunks" left over.

 

testing as you go is the best way. i think those are good values.

[Weetabix7]

Thanks Tiny.

Anyone else?

 

I HAVE done research on this, but I'd also be interested in hearing what Ca, Alk, and Mag. levels you guys shoot for and have had the best luck with in your aquariums, esp. as relates to sps.

[Weetabix7]

Just discovered my Ca is 320 so I still need to get that up.

[The Propagator]

yes, i think eventually you'll be changing your dosages. i believe atmospheric CO2 interaction contributes to carbonate so that "part" is somewhat naturally supplemented. whereas ca needs to be continually added as there's no atmospheric source (hence, i don't believe one can truly reef without additional additives, specifically calcium - see other advanced thread).

 

yes, the "snow" point is my threshold. but that is also dependent on flow as the typical alk dosing can create a localized supersaturation in low-flow zones, which can be seen as precipitate. i think this often occurs in salt batch mixings and shows up as "white chunks" left over.

 

testing as you go is the best way. i think those are good values.

 

 

+1

[The Propagator]

YES you definitely need to raise your Calcium. You want it some where around 420-450.

[SPS20]

If your levels are right, skip a day.

 

I keep my Alk between 8-9 dKH, and my Ca+ between 400-420 ppm, and my corals seem happy enough. I don't test Mg, as Mg levels don't change as fast as the other two due to calcification, so water changes can and do take care of that. Keep in mind I do larger water changes than most, though, so I wouldn't reccomend that everybody ignore Mg levels. Different people reccomend different levels. The ocean has about 412 ppm Ca+ average, so thats a decent number to aim for. Higher numbers will sometimes result in faster growth in stony corals, but may result in brittle and low-density skeletal growth, in my experience. (Others have told me this didn't happen with their corals when running their Ca/Alk levels high, so maybe I was doing something else wrong at the time, I really don't know)

 

As for cloudyness, don't worry if the water around where you add the Alk half gets cloudy for a sec, thats normal and to be expected. Some systems exhibit "uneven" demand, meaning you might have to add more Alk than Ca+, or the other way around, to keep things where they should be. I have thusfar been lucky, as adding the same amount of each has resulted in stability. I add about 25-30 ml of each part daily to my 20L. I imagine you would need much less, since you have alot of soft corals, whereas most of mine are stony. It all depends on how much calcifying biomass is in your tank.

 

I seem to have had the opposite experience as Tinyreef. He said he seems to have to add less and less of it over time, but I have had to slowly increase dosage over time. I suppose it really depends what you have in your tank.

 

Do try to stagger your dosing, meaning add part A, wait a half hour, add part B. It is possible to cause them to precipitate each other if they are added too close together, making it neccessary to add more to keep things stable. And, of course, beware the dreaded tankwide precipitation event. That won't happen unless you go way overboard, but be careful, as it isn't pretty, and can kill alot of critters quickly. I saw it happen to a friend's tank. He was filling the measuring cup over the tank (with bionic) when the cap popped off. A bunch of Bionic glugged into his tank, which nearly instantly went into a precipitation event. It was actually really fascinating to watch the puffy white clouds billow into every corner of his tank, but it resulted in the death of more than half of his livestock, which isn't cool at all.

[tinyreef]

I seem to have had the opposite experience as Tinyreef. He said he seems to have to add less and less of it over time, but I have had to slowly increase dosage over time. I suppose it really depends what you have in your tank.

definitely depends on your type of livestock and quantity. i run predominantly softie coral tank setups so my ca/alk needs are usually on the lower side (although coralline can chew up a lot of ca/alk, comparable to sps sometimes).

 

a small clam or lps could tip things quicker. a temporarily increased PO4 level could tip things the other way. and so on.

 

the "snow" event should be more of a cloudy/vapor event that dissipates within 30-sec. ime. any longer than that or actual "snow" versus clouds may point to an alk saturation level. that doesn't necessarily mean a calcium saturation level though!

[stingythingy45]

Just discovered my Ca is 320 so I still need to get that up.

 

You need to raise your Ca 130 ppm?

How big is this tank?

I was at 380 once and need 450.

It took like 90 ml. to bring that up in a 55 gallon.

That's like 3 of those shot glass.

So my advice.Quite goofin and get dosing the calcium.

I'll see if I can find a calculator for you.

[stingythingy45]

Here you go.

I'm sure you've heard enough...blah...blah...blah...

Don't forget to put the Gallons up in the middle.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html

[Weetabix7]

Hey, stop beating me about the head, I'm dosing, I'm dosing!

 

It's a 10g prop tank, probably about 25 sps frags and slightly more zoa frags.

According to the bottle, 1 mil per gal. will raise the Ca 16 ppm.

The bottle also says not to dose more than 1 mil per gal. per day.

If you take into account displacement by LR and corals etc, there's probably around 8 gals. in there.

I dosed about 7 mil of Ca this morning.

I just tried to test the Ca but ran out of drops to finish the test, so all I know is that it's over 240 ppm.

[The Propagator]

Wait at least 10 hours before testing for calcium after you have dosed in the same day.

Other wise you wont get a true reading because it will not have had proper mixing/dilution time.

After 10 giver her a spin.

Then test anywhere from 12 to 24 later to see where you at with consumption.

[Weetabix7]

That's good info Prop, thanks.

Unfortunately, my Ca test kit ran out of drops so I can't test for it now which makes it hard to know how to dose.

I ordered another Ca test kit today, but it's gonna take a few days to come.

[Weetabix7]

Here you go.

I'm sure you've heard enough...blah...blah...blah...

Don't forget to put the Gallons up in the middle.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html

 

Okay, I have a question.

I'm trying to get the Ca up to 350 today ( I have to do this gradually).

According to the calculator, the balanced Alk for that is -.53 meq/l.

What the heck???

Does that mean that I can't have my Alk and Ca balanced until I get the Ca way, way up?

What kind of effect will this have on my tank?

Almost everyone looks okay right now, but I have a couple of zoa frags that aren't opening.

Could this be why?

[beeker]

last night when i checked my tank everything was dead on and probably a little higher than i wanted it to be, so i did a small water change and didn't dose any B-ionic Alk, Cal, or Mg last night,

 

Alk: 11 dkh

Cal: 425

Mg: 1300

 

i'll probably be dosing around 1ml up to 1.5ml of alk and cal tonight and maybe every other day until i add more sps to my tank and hopefully that will keep my parameter's in the money spot

 

when i started my tank my dose's were 1ml of Alk, Cal and 6ml of Mg for a 5.5 gallon with about 4 total gallons

 

Then when i stocked it with the new sps i upped the Alk and Cal dosages to 1.5ml and that seems to have raise both to the right level, but it seems as if it's a little too much for my tank right now

 

i noticed my Zoa's not looking to hot yesterday, so i just did a water change and didn't dose anything and then tested my tank

 

when i get home today i'll be able to tell if i need to dose for anything or not

 

When you up Alk you lower Cal

 

When you Up Cal you lower Alk

 

And Mg doesen't affect either of those values

 

So if your high on Alk just dose CalIf your low on one dose more off it and less of the other (that is how i stabilized my tank) i've never just dosed 1 part of the two part solution,

 

i always dosed both in either the same amount or a lower amount of one and more of the other

[Weetabix7]

So I should do a minimul dose of the Alk component and a higher dose of the Ca component today?

[beeker]

When my Alk was at 10 Dkh and my Cal wast at 325-350ppm

 

i dosed 1ml of Alk and 1.5ml of Cal everyday and that got my levels to the right spot, and then i upped the alk dose to about 1.5ml and kept the Cal dose at 1.5ml and everything balanced out

 

Yeah it should work like that, just test and keep an eye to make sure you don't over raise either one

 

That way you can keep your alk where it is and raise you Cal without dropping the Alk as much as you would just by dosing 1 of the two part solution

[Weetabix7]

Okay, here's where my current values are at.

Alk- 3.5 meq/l or slightly under

Mg- 1350

Ca- can't test, but should be approx. 335.

My test ran out of drops and I'm waiting on the replacement Ca test to come in the mail. I'm gonna have a couple of days to wait tho.

This is how I deduced where Ca is at now.

It was at 320 when I tested 2 days ago.

According to the Ca component bottle, if you dose 1 ml per gallon, it will raise the Ca by 16 ppm. Yesterday I dosed the Ca component just under 1ml per gal to be safe, so logically the Ca should be right around 335 ppm.

It's a 10g tank, btw.

[SPS20]

There's no crime in skipping one of the two components completely for a day if you Alk is already where it should be. I have done it a bunch of times with no ill effects.

[beeker]

yeah,

 

but when my Mg was at 1000, and the bottle said to dose 6ml (for my 5.5 gallon) to raise my Mg 15ppm a day and 100ppm over a week, i've only been dosing Mg for the last 2 weeks and my Mg is at 1300ppm now when it should only be at 1200ppm...so you have to be somewhat careful, i thought it was going to take atleast 3 weeks to get my Mg up from 1000 to 1300 and it only took 2 weeks and that was with doing my normal weekly water changes as well

[Izzue]

If your happy with the Alk...keep dosing it the same way.( you skip..it drops)

To increase your Ca...just add more Ca until you get it where you want.

Retest Alk...You may find you have to increase both to maintain your

desired CA level.

It really depend on the need from your corals...Ive found that softies like

higher ALK...and of course SPS likes the CA...so mixed tanks take some

tweaking...but usually and eventually you will be back to adding same amount

of each...or at least thats the goal

 

Izzue

[Weetabix7]

Okay, I have a new B-Ionic question.

When I dose the Alk part of B-Ionic, it's been forming these little white "globs" instead of just dissipating in the water stream. They have that same cloudy look that you normally see when you dose the Alk component, but they hold together in little globlike formations. Think of how oil acts if you put it in water. It's still liquid, but it holds together in little balls or globs.

The white globs eventually break down in the water, but this seems kind of odd to me, and I'm concerned that something might be wrong with my Alk component. I haven't been dosing it for the last few days cause I'm a little worried about this.