nitrate dilema>>>>>>>

[Aware]

Deep breath!

 

I have a juwel rio 125 litre/30ukgallon tank, and i'm struggling with nitrates it's currently 50-75ppm, and i water change 10-15% every 2 weeks religously!.

my tap water has 20ppm and sky high phosphates, my marine dealer sells RO water but it has 12.5 ppm nitrates in it with zero phosphates, which is better but not much.

I tried another dealer further away and his RO was 20ppm same as my tap water, since i've learned Ro is not what its made up to be.

 

I have 4 fish,1 shrimp,4 hermits,2 turbo snails,1 scallop,1 urchin and 4 soft corals. the tank is 3 months old.

I have a prism protein skimmer, and i have a small hang on the inside internal rena filter along with the built in filter system that has the various sponges and rowaphos in.

 

I have 16kilos of live rock and a 2" coral oolite sand bed.

 

Anyone know why im be battling with really high nitrates all the time, i change the water as regular as i should, i can't find a source of water that has Zero nitrates for the changes, so everytime i water change, nitrate dilution is extremely minimal.

I've used 3 different test kits to be sure the test is accurate.

 

Why isn't my live rock hepling with nitrates? is my tank not yet mature enough!, ammonia and nitrite are both zero.

 

any help, ideas and suggestions would be of great appreciation.

 

should i try polyfilter as well as the rowaphos?

 

thanks and sorry for the long post!

[katydidit]

sounds to me like your only option is a RO/DI unit. I'm battling the same thing, only my tank hasnt been set up yet. Its an expensive thing to buy, but your fish and livestock will thank you for it!!! Im thinking that I will go with the aquaticreefsystems 4-stage RO/DI filter...if ya want to take a look here is the link:

http://www.aquaticreefsystems.com/Reverse_...osis_4Stage.htm

I am unsure of what a polyfilter or a rowaphos is, but i hope this can help you out...i have the same frustration right now going on with my freshwater tank so i understand. Good luck!

[seabass]

Your own RO/DI system would probably give you the best water to start with. However, you could lower your Nitrates and still use your marine dealer’s water. Bigger and/or more water changes would help. Fifteen to twenty percent water changes once a week should start bringing down your levels.

 

If your Nitrate levels are 75ppm, two 10% partial water changes (with Nitrate free water) will only bring down your Nitrates to 60.75. However, two 20% (Nitrate free) changes would take your Nitrate level down to 48ppm.

 

Your livestock plus any uneaten food will produce more Nitrates. So overcrowding and/or overfeeding will contribute to the problem. Also, take the mechanical and biological filter medium out of your filters; they can also contribute to your Nitrate problem. I'd take one out at a time since a big change can cause another cycle.

[Toooloud]

Allright,

 

We all have deal with wonderful Nitrate issues.. Now just from what you have wrote i would have to ask what Fish? You said 4.. are we talking 4 small fish ? or larger fish? Your tank could be over stocked.. But we will see later..

 

Second, 16 Kilos, that is what about 30 pounds? if so your doing well i would add in another 10 pounds of Good mature live rock..

 

Third, Your RO water is comming up with 12.5 Nitrates. The whole reason we buy or Make ro water is to have pure clean water, It should not have any nitrates, atleast no detectable.. Maybe its time for your Store to change the Membrain

 

Forth, The skimmer you have is allright, If your tank is stocked right, Now you said 4 fish so most likly you have a heavy load so that small skimmer is not the best.. but you are removeing some nutients..

 

and number 5,

 

Your filter.. YOu do not want to run Mechanical filtration they are what most will call "Nitrate Factories" why becouse most will not clean it right. Running any sort of mechanica filters with Sponges you need to replace the sponges every 3-4 days.. becouse what happens is you get a build up of uneatten foods with will brake down and becouse they are not being broken down by the life rock there is nothing there to comsume the Nitrate factor and brake it down.. So its just building up in the sponge untill it reaches a too high of a level.. Where with out the sponges the food gets caught up in the rocks where it brakes down and the rocks Bacteria brakes it down.. or the DSB ( Deep Sand Bed) Breaks it down.. So by replaceing ( not cleaning becouse you still have crap in it) you are removing the the uneatten foods and nitrates before they are broken down or built up to an unsafe level..

 

So what you sould do is..

 

1) Remove all the mechanical filtration, ( you can run the filters for water movment but not media)

2) Feed less make sure that what you are putting in the tank get eatten.. So instead of feeding alot one or twice.. feed less but 3-4 times aday.

3) Add about 10 more pounds of rock or 5 kilos

 

And get back to us please with what kind of fish you have.

[Aware]

Hi, thanks loads for the help,

 

the 4 fish i have are - 1 goby-3"/1 maroon clown 3"/2 v/small damsels that account to 1".

 

I feed once a day a little at a time and dont put food in until the rest is eaten.

 

I'm really pleased you mention the mechanical filters, particularly as they are built in to the tank, i was wondering about this.

 

OK, in my juwel tank there is a long square compartment in the corner that houses all the sponges, power head and heater

 

Q 1.. should i take out the sponges 1 day at a time until all have gone, or should i do this over a longer period of time ,i think theirs 7 sponges in total.

 

Q 2.. When all sponges are gone, what can i put in the large space where the sponges where, seems alot of room to waste i the tank!, idealy should i remove the compartment

 

Q3..As well as the various sponges in the compartment,currently i have rowaphos(phosphate remover which works amazingly) and a carbon sponge filter,should i keep these in the compartment or do something else with them.

 

You've convinced me that this is where my nitrates are coming from, when i think about it, it seems logical.

 

Thanks alot for your help on this one, i was really pulling my hair out with what to do, my urchins loosing his spines, he doesn't look to happy.

 

thanks again friend!

[Aware]

I have just taken out 1 sponge, if it's ok i'll take out another everyday until they have all gone, i trust this would be ok, although i'm not sure how long it would take for the bacteria to compensate on the rocks!

 

anyone?

 

 

thanks

[Toooloud]

the 4 fish i have are - 1 goby-3"/1 maroon clown 3"/2 v/small damsels that account to 1".

You are running 8 inches of fish, Now they say that you should have 10 gallons per inch of fish. but again thats one of these "RUles of Thumb" that are not allways a great idea.

 

So i would say that your tank is allright, But i would not add anymore to it!

 

Q 1.. should i take out the sponges 1 day at a time until all have gone, or should i do this over a longer period of time ,i think theirs 7 sponges in total.

 

Now how much live rock did you have agian? Right now thats alot of Sponges and they have alot of the tanks Bacteria stored in there.. So by removing the sponges you are going to be removing alot of the bacteria that you need..

 

So i would not do more than 1 a week.. Preferable i would go 1 Sponge every 2 weeks.. and add in live rock, Again please state how much you have in there again.

 

 

 

Q 2.. When all sponges are gone, what can i put in the large space where the sponges where, seems alot of room to waste i the tank!, idealy should i remove the compartment

It would make a good Refugi.. Take that compartment add in some rock Rubble, and some Micro algae like Grape calupra.. then place a small 10 watt light over it.. and keep it lite 24/7 the calupra will remove the waste.. they love to feed off Nitrates.!

 

 

 

Q3..As well as the various sponges in the compartment,currently i have rowaphos(phosphate remover which works amazingly) and a carbon sponge filter,should i keep these in the compartment or do something else with them.

 

As for these, Once you get it all organised and turn that compartment into a refugi... The calupra feeds off Phosphates and nitrates and soo on.. I would not use a Carbon Sponge but use a filter bag and place some "Active Carbon" in it.. it comes in a small container and looks like little chucks of coal.. it works well.. One thing with running carbon media is that you need to remove it regularly or it will just leak everything back into the tank.

 

 

Allways Glad to help!

[ELGORDOINAVW]

have you thought about using bottled distilled water from the market? may be better alternative.

[Aware]

@Toooloud

 

Thanks mate, i have 16kg of LR in the tank right now,

 

what is a "refugi... " ?

 

Could i put any type of rock in there ie..dead sea rock/ocean rock etc or should i put in small pieces of live rock?

 

After putting rock in the compartment, would it ever need replacing after time or would it last forever in their.

 

Does live rock ever need replacing?

 

i'm really sorry for all the questions, i think originally i was given alot of bad advice from my LFS/garden centre..

 

thanks again

 

 

@ELGORDOINAVW

I already tried that one lol, and was very suprised.

I tested 3 different brands of bottled water Eden falls tested 25ppm nitrates, the other 2 were no different to tap water.

[ELGORDOINAVW]

hey buddy another thing you could try is a mangrove tree- it's a tree but it grows slow, also when you get them they are about 8" if you place them in your sump(do you have one?) then it would be out of sight. all you have to do as faar as maintenance is wipe the leaves with a clean moist rag every few days. they are really good at absorbing nitrates. the other option would be the macro- thats a very good option. i would put live rock in the fuge- it doesn't have to be much, mainly there for the macro to attach to. you could even use base rock, which is the same as live rock without the bacteria. the other advantage to a fuge is it will provide a sanctuary for pods, which will reproduce and feed the whole tank.

[ELGORDOINAVW]

oh yeah,

 

cheers!!!!!!!

[Aware]

@ELGORDOINAVW

 

 

pods?

 

fuge?

 

i'm lost, can you explain what these are generally speaking.

 

cheers mate

[ELGORDOINAVW]

ok do a search on this site and on the web for a refugium, also look at the ones built into sumps. www.cprusa.com is a great place to look at for hangon fuges, it will explain everything. basically it's a place to place macro algae, which absorbs nitrates but also gives a place for pods to breed and live. it's like the behind the scene workers. most people like myself have an old hang on the back power filter, which we use as a fuge. what you do is turn the filter way down so it barely circulates water, add sand, rock( live best) algae, and a smal light to grow the algae. oh and remember to remove any cartridge,sponge, filter material before you add stuff to it.

 

pods are little animals some look like little shrimp, some like tiny slugs, there are soooooo many diferent types. but what they do is augment the diets of your corals/fish. these are a key sign of a healthy system, and are welcomed into a reef tank. they are also very interesting themselves.

 

well hope this help, any other question feel free to pm me.

 

cheers!!!