DIY LED lighting

[AsianSignals]

lol that explains a lot.

 

is it possible to design a square board with 3 slots for leds on both sides?

 

but having such a dense array wont heating be a problem? even for copper.

 

I think you're asking about 6 LEDs in a close configuration. Here is a set up that is almost what what you're talking about.

 

 

 

 

The aluminum plate takes about 5 minutes to warm up to the point where it's hot. From there, it must be actively cooled.

 

Interesting note: The house lights above these LEDs were not turned off for the second picture. The LEDs are so bright when lit that they shut down the iris of the camera so far, that the room looks black.

 

You really can't look at this group of LEDs when turned on. That is a mixture of colors 3 Red, 3 Green, 6 Royal Blue, 3 Amber, 3 Cool White.

 

IF these LEDs were turned around and facing either other -- LED to LED, the result in heat would be almost the same. The heat would be pulled out into the aluminum pretty fast, but after a few minutes you would start to see exessive heat building up. The heat has does have to go somewhere. You would need fins on the back of this and a fan, etc.

 

And notice the radiation pattern. As described in the specification - mostly below 60 degrees.

[Seanewb]

Have any of you tried these? I contacted them about ordering 100pcs 50 blue 50 white all 3W. They can do that for $332.86 that includes shipping ($3.33 per LED). Upside downside what are your thoughts?

[AsianSignals]

Have any of you tried these? I contacted them about ordering 100pcs 50 blue 50 white all 3W. They can do that for $332.86 that includes shipping ($3.33 per LED). Upside downside what are your thoughts?

 

 

That looks like a cheap Chinese knock off of the Luxeon product. I have not tried any of these. I have sampled some of th Edison Opto parts (Tawian). I have purchase LaminaLighting.com 's Titan RGB, and Atlas.

 

I've sampled LEDEngin.com 's 10 Watt RGBA LED. And of course I've seen and used most of the Luxeon products.

 

I would not trust this Chinese product for long life. That is a bad bet. I'm in Asia and this is not exactly China here but the mentality is certainly such that you won't know exactly what you're getting.

 

Luxeon just did a recall on a mistake with the Rebel product. I can assure you -- a Chinese company would not do the recall. So, that be your guide.

 

Wait, I just looked over that guy's sales history. He sells all kinds of things. He is not an LED manufacturer...

 

Do you think he is telling the truth?

[coolwaters]

3watts at 95lumen is retarted....even the worst luxeon is better...

 

IMO thats not even worth $1...

 

if you think about it.....50 white will give youabout 4750lumens.

so it would take about 30 P4 Cree

which is about $117.54 for 30 of them.

instead of $166.50 for the crappy one of ebay.

 

would should get the name brand ones that at least up to date. you'll kick yourself in the future.

[coolwaters]

35lumen from something thats out of date is a lie.

a lot of people have been ripped off by these....even the best luxeon rebel is rated at 48lumen at 3w so something like can come close is obvious a fake and a scam.

 

also from the pic it looks like Cyan....not blue.

 

be safe dont buy stuff that dont have brand names...

[Seanewb]

Ok Cool so is your list at the beginning of the thread still the bang for the buck or is there anything better now? Mind you I know nothing about led lighting I've just started to read up on things. I just thinking about doing a small practice project and put it over my future 5g tank. I figured I would start with cheap and work my way up know what I mean? I can't agree with you on the brand name thing you have to give the little guys a shot every now and again. Sometimes they put more effort into winning your buisiness than the big established companies. I would hope that Asian would agree because if not he might aswell have close the shop and not even try So now for my questions! (keep in mind first timer and he's gonna make mistakes lol)

1. How many LEDs would I need and what colors? (4.7 custom tank)

2. Best place to buy them?

3. Easiest way to get power to them? Power supply and Driver?

4. From reading this thread it seems to me that heat comes from the back of the LED not the front correct?

5. Asian how are the LED's attached to your boards? Soldered, adhesive? Just trying to undersand the concept.

We'll go from here and see what happens!

[Seanewb]

Hey I also found this website of a company that make a bunch of different heatsinks incase you guys wanna check it out. Here's the link.

[coolwaters]

dont get the Edison LEDs that has a white base. its a mistake its really rated at 60lumen not 85.

 

i think you'll be happy with a Cree P4 or even the Q2 cuz its on sale. i personally like Cree.

also brand name LEDs poured in billions of dollars on research to design the best LED and are working their way up the ladder.

 

knock offs arent known for their quality...

 

those heatsink are ok but of your going to have a dense array a CPU heatsink is recommended. keeping the LED temperature around 80 degrees it will last the 50k hours its design for. i saw this chart that if the temp. is more then 100 degrees it can reduce the life to 20k hours...

 

also if your power supply isnt regulated it wont last a year.

 

 

also for a 4.7g if you have something like softies just 5 LEDs thats spread out would be fine. a dense array of maybe 10 would be great for a SPS. but accumulate them or they'll get bleached.

[NanoReefGuy]

Hi Seanewb

 

1. How many LEDs would I need and what colors? (4.7 custom tank)

I just tried an array with 13LED running at 400mA. A lux meter showed this about equal to the intensity of a 36W PC lamp. This had 11 cool white, 1 blue & 1 green. I thought the light needs more blue, so I am adding adding royal blue & 1 410nm UV LED (to get corals to fluoresce)

2. Best place to buy them?

I bought white Cree Q5 LED from DealExtreme.com 8.99/each. I buy Luxeon Rebel from luxeonstar.com

3. Easiest way to get power to them? Power supply and Driver?

Depends if you are an electronics geek Use a DC power supply to get 12-24V. Can use a voltage regulator in constant current mode. I am using BuckPuck regulators, but am also interested in the one CW recommended from here http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDeta...spx?TranID=2982

4. From reading this thread it seems to me that heat comes from the back of the LED not the front correct?

Mostly

5. Asian how are the LED's attached to your boards? Soldered, adhesive? Just trying to undersand the concept.

 

Good luck!

 

 

NRG

[coolwaters]

they look at this

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11024

 

its 16 cents more but a nice upgrade from the P4 or Q2.

[AsianSignals]

4. From reading this thread it seems to me that heat comes from the back of the LED not the front correct?

5. Asian how are the LED's attached to your boards? Soldered, adhesive? Just trying to understand the concept.

We'll go from here and see what happens!

 

By design the heat should to come out the bottom, but heat travels in all directions so you'll find the top of the LEDs as hot as the heat sink. If the heat sink is not working, of course the LEDs will be hotter.

 

The LEDs are soldered onto the board. Soldering is typical on all boards that you see. What make this one different is that the bonding on this board has a metal pathway all the way to the ground. And that path is copper. Copper is almost (not quite) twice as fast at pulling the heat out of the LEDs. (don't forget there is some solder below it -- which is Tin and Led and sometimes Silver)

 

To mount the LEDs, you apply a the right amount of solder paste to the board on top, lay down the LED on the paste. Apply heat to the bottom of the board (this is a safer approach). When the temperature of the solder hits the melting point, you'll see the LED settle into place. Hold the heat for about 5 more seconds to ensure a good solder joint (don't want a cold solder joint).

 

Test with digital volt ohm meter to make sure the solder did not short between the 2 input leads, and then you're done.

 

If solder shorted between the leads, re-heat and move the LED around with a tooth pick to help push out excess solder, cool, and retest.

 

Once you do this a few times, you'll find it's not very hard.

 

My people mounted about 300 of these LEDs in an 8 hours period last week. They were all taking turns and learning how to do it. Out of all 300 times I think they had a solder bridge (excess solder) once or twice.

 

I really need to document this for my customers who have not soldered before. I'll try to put that together next week.

[coolwaters]

AsianSignals do you think your can design a compact square board for something like Cree or Seoul type emitters?

[AsianSignals]

AsianSignals do you think your can design a compact square board for something like Cree or Seoul type emitters?

 

I don't have any experience with the Cree or Seoul products. If their metal bases are electrically active,then a board like the one I made will not be an option. They will have to stay on the alumunim sandwich boards.

 

I can make an aluminum board -- and if it did, I'd make the screw holes captive. (I hate those notches for mounting). I'd also probably put some kind of connectors on it too as solding to those aluminum boards is a pain.

 

Right now, I'm buttoning up the work on my LED controller.

 

My Rebel Circle design (22mm) with up to 6 Rebels will be finished in about 3 weeks. That will be my next board and I already have an acylic lenses that will fit over those. So, that might also be a helpful product for some of you.

 

At some point in the future I'll take a closer look at the Cree and Seoul products.

 

Keith

[Seanewb]

Ok so I think I want to try Asiansignal's board. So that means I'll need Luxeon Rebels correct? Now I've gone to luxeonstar.com and it looks like prices are affordable. Now the questions!

1. Which white to choose neutral or cool white? If I go neutral I can go to 130lm if I go cool white I can only go to 95lm. (This is based on time frame to be shipped 1 day vs. 10wks)

2. Which blue? Royal up to 400mw/455nm or Blue @ 22lms/470nm

3. I will need 3 LED's per board. Should I do 2 whites and a blue or stick with all white boards and all blue?

AsianSignals

If I decide to have you guys mount the LED's

1. Would I have the LED's dropped shipped to your company?

2. What's the lead time for say a sheet/100 boards with mounting?

3. To have the LED's mounted onto the board the cost would be 1.85 per board and that includes the board. Then whatever the shipping cost is?

 

I will more than likely go with a smaller quantity to start just to see how things work. But wanted to figure out the cost per board with led's on a larger scale.(Best discounted price)

It seems that you can get a 2 white 95lm and one Royal blue board for about $12 per board shipped. Thats using AsianSignals mounting service. Do it yourself would be about $9.20 per board shipped.

 

I was just looking at soldering gear. Can I get some ideas on wattage, tips, size of solder, cold heat vs warm heat and anything else I would need while soldering. I knew I should have taken the hand soldering job instead of wave soldering LOL.(was a long time ago but had that choice LOL)

[evilc66]

You will want to do cool white LEDs. The neutrals will make the light very yellow. I would wait until Lumileds gets back into production and get the 180lm cool whites.

 

2 white and 1 royal blue will be a good start on your color temp. The royal blues will fluoresce better than the blues, although they will fluoresce a little too.

 

Stay away from the cold heat soldering irons. They are useless for fine soldering work. Get a good iron with a fine tip from a company like Weller. Get 35W+. They are inexpensive, high quality, and you can get replacement tips in different sizes for most irons. This more than likely won't be something you will find locally. Go to Wellers web site and pick something you like. There are many online retailers that deal with them.

[AsianSignals]

It would take us one or two days to mount 300 LEDs assuming we are not over swamped with work -- which I don't see at this point. So our turn around is very fast.

 

You can have it dropped shipped here if the other company will permit that. Some may not. I don't know about LuxeonStar.com. They may require you to send them to us directly.

 

Return shipping to you with EMS service is $25. Or we could use UPS. Cost is aproximately the same. That takes about a week to 10 days to reach you.

 

 

I highly encouage you to try to mount these yourself or hire out a local service to mount them. The board is easy to use. Especially if you heat it from below. Remember, this is an LED that emits quite a bit of heat already. If you're heating from below, then there is very little risk to its lens. You can afford to play with it to get the mounting right.

 

One item that you can use is an Ungar heat shrink gun -- their smaller model with 2 settings is a good choice (those can be a bit pricy at around $170 last time I checked). Or, might be able to pick up a cheap Chinese hot air station for less (about $80?). The Ungar will last you 20 years and you can use it for heat shrink. The air station is not very sturdy.

 

You may also be able to hold a new solder gun under this board. I say a new one because it will have to be fresh and clean because you don't want any residual solder to transfer to the board. If you can ease it onto the bottom of the board, then that should work. Those are cheap -- $15.

 

You might also find a bic butane lighter will work but that heat would not be as easy to control and you would have to clean the bottom of the board when you were finished.

 

If you're not sure about what LEDs you want, or if you're not sure of the color combinations, then I would suggest you give mounting a try. I believe you will have success with it.

 

 

Tell you what -- if you want to try the boards -- and for some reason the mounting is not working for you, I'll work it out with you and exchange the board moneys over to the mounting fees. 100 boards is $49 ($5 for shipping). If you find you can't mount them and you send them back to me with LEDs, I will put the $49 towards your mounting charges.

[coolwaters]

is it possible to use a natural gas stove? and a sheet of aluminum as the base.

 

also wont the hot air melt the silicone dome on the LED?

[coolwaters]

i was looking around and found a LED called Acriche its from Seoul a good LED company.

the good part about it is that it runs on a 100 AC. so straight from your wall-outlet.

and pretty efficients. im gussing its rated at 35k hours is because of the high voltage.

[AsianSignals]

is it possible to use a natural gas stove? and a sheet of aluminum as the base.

 

I wouldn't try this. Buy a $15 soldering gun and you'll have really good control on the heat at little risk to yourself or the LEDs.

 

i was looking around and found a LED called Acriche its from Seoul a good LED company.

the good part about it is that it runs on a 100 AC. so straight from your wall-outlet.

and pretty efficients. im gussing its rated at 35k hours is because of the high voltage.

 

I am a non-believer when it comes to AC LEDs. It will never work well given the fundamentals of semi-conductors. It's a half baked idea offered by manufacturers who live in a throw away society. IF they have a breakthrough in that design -- chances are that same advancement will allow normal LEDs to leap ahead as well. The AC product will always be miserably behind the curve. I could be wrong, but this is how I see it.

[coolwaters]

is there like a video or a good pic of how to use a hot air gun or soldering mounting methods? im thinking the hot air will melt the silicone dome....

 

btw wont you damage/dim the LEDs if its exposed to heat for too long? or too much heat.

[AsianSignals]

is there like a video or a good pic of how to use a hot air gun or soldering mounting methods? im thinking the hot air will melt the silicone dome....

 

btw wont you damage/dim the LEDs if its exposed to heat for too long? or too much heat.

 

 

All these LEDs can be soldered from above. There is a strict specification just how hot the temperature can be and for how long. It's about 260F for 6 seconds or something like that. This is something that typically a machine does for an entire board.

 

HOWEVER, I don't suggest you solder from above. This board is completely metal on the bottom. Just blow air on the board from below and melt the solder from that direction. The lens on top will remain cool because obviously its out of the pathway of the hot air.

 

Yes, if you heat for too long you will damage the LEDs. You watch the LED while you're heating. If you use solder paste, the LED will settle into place while you're watching it. At that point, continue for about 5 more seconds and you're finished.

 

If you have accidentally shorted the input because of too much solder paste, reheat and move LED with toothpick back and forth to squeese out excess solder -- cool, and retest.

 

I don't have a video/pictures of this right now. I admit this would be helpful. It's something that I need to do.

[Seanewb]

Ok I'm going to pick up a soldering iron or station not sure which yet. I will also pickup a cheap iron just for applying the leds. What do you reccommend for soldering paste? And a good place to get it? Within a couple days I'll order the boards (I'm going to need the info on how to do that.) Then I will figure out what LEDs to get. Meantime I'll be practicing on some circuit boards to get the hang of soldering.

[AsianSignals]

You have nothing to practice with yet. This is not going to be like normal soldering.

 

You're going to apply solder paste to the top of the board and then you're going to touch the bottom of this board with a clean and unused soldering iron to heat the board from below.

 

Do not put any solder on your new gun because you don't want any transfer materials on that bottom of that board. That is why the gun must be new.

 

You can purchase a normal soldering gun for about $18. That has the tip on it that is shaped in a curved rod. See this link

 

This is one of the most expensive in the business. http://www.action-electronics.com/weguns.htm

 

Radio shack will have ones for less that are decent for less.

 

Image how it will be used. You'll set the gun on it's side and lay the board with LEDs upright on the prongs. Then squeeze the trigger and watch the LEDs settle into the solder paste as it melts on the board. Wait a second or two more -- then release the trigger.

 

I would also buy a nice set of stainless steel tweezers to help you handle the hot boards.

 

The solder paste is available - you'll need to ask you local electronic supply stores where you can purchase. They sell it in small quantities and this item must be kept cool/cold in a refrigerator for storage.

[evilc66]

It is also available from Digikey and Mouser online, but they will hit you for shipping because it has to be overnighted. You can get Kester solder paste in small quantities from there.

 

Oh, and getting a cheap iron for the LEDs is the wrong way to go. You will want a better iron for that with better temperature control and higher wattage. Use a cheap iron for general soldering like wires.

 

If you have not had much practice at soldering, get solder that still has lead in it (63/37). Lead free solder needs a hotter iron (not wattage) to flow properly, but is harder to come by since RoHS has kicked in (Removal of Hazardous Substances). Get the solder in thin diameters too. It's a lot easier to work with for detail work.

[AsianSignals]

Oh, and getting a cheap iron for the LEDs is the wrong way to go. You will want a better iron for that with better temperature control and higher wattage. Use a cheap iron for general soldering like wires.

 

The best tool to use is a hot air soldering station but you guys are looking to save money.

 

The normal heat gun in this case will be fine. You're setting a small 12mm square board on top of it's prongs and then watching for the solder to melt. At the point it melts you'll know exactly what the temperature is. Hold the heat another 2 or 3 seconds and release.

 

The example if a hot plate (I believe evilc66 shows that) will also work (setting the board on top of it), but you better be ready with the tweezers to carefully remove the board when the solder melts.

 

I think the gun is a reasonable way to go. If you have some extra coin, hot air station would be the next best choice.

 

And guess what -- if you screw up a few times and don't like the gun method, you have a soldering gun to help you with other various projects. It's hardly a waste of cash.