RO/DI units environmentally destructive?

[Reefstalker]

I wanted to get everyone's opinion on this issue that has been bothering me for some time now. How do you, reef enthusiasts, reconcile your use of RO/DI water with your supposed love of the environment? For every 100 gallon of RO/DI water you generate, you waste 75-90 gallons...i.e., just flushed down the drain, where it has to be remediated, etc. wasting precious resources. I'm sure most of you are aware that RO/DI units only extract 10-25% of the water that passes through its membranes. The rest are wasted.

 

Is your hobby contributing to our environment's destruction?

 

For the record, I use dechlorinated, 1-2 week aged Lake Michigan tap water for my reef tank. My reef tank has been setup for over a year now, is fully stocked with corals and fishes, and is doing very well. I thought long and hard about getting an RO/DI unit, but felt it to be hypocritical.

 

Thoughts?

[shag26272]

where I live there is no shortage of water so no one cares how much you use, the MS river isnt drying up anytime soon. you can use the waste to wash your clothes or water the lawn if you lived in a shortage are. I dont see what the enviroment has to do with water shortages though. Its 2 different things.

[swinginbeef]

I bottle my waste water and use it to water flowers and landscaping etc outside.

[adinsxq]

lol you noobs are still using water in your aquariums?

[neanderthalman]

^^

[MJD]

Adin thinks he's so cool because he uses lava.

 

MJD

[steelerguy]

My waste water goes into a septic tank, out the septic tank into the ground, and back into the water table.

 

If I still lived in Tucson, AZ or Austin, TX I might think about it a little more. Then again, "wasting" 40 gallons a week or so is not really that bad in my mind. If it were just being dumped on the ground maybe, as it would be lost through evaporation and most likely fall somewhere else as rain. Down the drain it is back to the treatment plant and stays in the area.

 

I think the real waste of water is people who have big ass lawns in the middle of the desert or non native trees/shrubs that require hundreds of gallons of water each week.

[svvad]

How's taking crap out of water a waste ? 'Cause if it is then the water treatment stations or whatever they're called are doing way worse than we are

[Mr. Fosi]

I thought long and hard about getting an RO/DI unit, but felt it to be hypocritical.

 

Thoughts?

 

Let's assume for the moment that your assumpion regarding non-passed water as "wasted" is true.

 

~4gpw (my aquarium-related usage) adds up 208 gpy, which is less than I use to flush my toilet for a month.

 

If you want to nit-pick about the specks of RO water, here are a few planks for you to chew on: Do you own any manufactured goods? If so, you should think long and hard about the amount of water used and discarded during their manufacture. Think doubly hard if you own anything that was manufactured in China or any other country with lax environmental legislation/enforcement.

 

Do you flush toilets, use a dishwasher, or bathe using potable water? Do you eat any food that was raised by agribusiness?

 

If a person wants to be environmentally-friendly all they have to do is kill themselves. Oh wait... make sure you don't get embalmed or cremated. Plus, you'll release any bio-persistent compounds you may have injested during your life.

 

Bottom line: Anything that humans do, own, drive, ride, create, destroy, or use can be construed to be environmentally destructive. The RO used by aquarists is a drop in the bucket which, if it could be eliminiated likely wouldn't offset the evaporation from the swimming pools and fountains of Las Vegas.

[coralcrazy]

+1 with Mr. Fosi

[Jackopus]

http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-E...t/reverseo.html

 

#1 Issue: the issue is the water that is used to wash the membrane, "can" contain higher concentrations of heavy metals.

 

#2 issue: the average is 2 to 1 for every one gallon of RO created it takes 2 gallons to wash, the membrane, and flush the heavy particle out. the water used in RO plants is generally sent to waste water plant, or to the ocean.

 

There has not been a full blown study on any effects on either waste/recovery method. I design and build waste water plants. and most heavy metals will fuse with the other waste materials (Poop) and used as non-feed type fertilizers. The overall effects have yet to be realized.

 

BUT to claim you are Earth Killers for returning from water what naturally occurs in water, is a bit over the top.

[Mr. Fosi]

#1 Issue: the issue is the water that is used to wash the membrane, "can" contain higher concentrations of heavy metals.

 

Which was in the water already. The water added to the tank also eventually goes down the drain or into the atmosphere and into rain. No net change.

 

#2 issue: the average is 2 to 1 for every one gallon of RO created it takes 2 gallons to wash, the membrane, and flush the heavy particle out. the water used in RO plants is generally sent to waste water plant, or to the ocean.

 

Which, unless you use well water, is where it came from.

 

BUT to claim you are Earth Killers for returning from water what naturally occurs in water, is a bit over the top.

 

Yep.

 

EDIT: The excessive evaporation of ocean water contributes to surface concentration of heavy metals. I think we should stop that as well.

[musho3210]

you living next to one of the biggest freshwater lakes dont really need to worry. Maybe we shouldnt flush toilets and just go in our backyards. The waste water that is wasted goes through your water treatment plant easily since there is no waste except an elevated TDS reading. Then your waste water goes back to the Michigan lake and back to your tap. Everything that goes down your tap goes to the Michigan lake, at least its like that here in Evanston.

 

Toilets are bigger wasters than RO/DI units. We flush like a gallon of water just to get rid of a cup of pee, what a waste!

 

There are other more important things we need to worry about in this hobby, like anemones taken from the wild and then killed by some ignorant person until there are few anemones left. People putting dynamite in our reefs, blowing it up, and collection the rock that blew up to sell it as live rock. People still selling moorish idols, purple nudi-branches, harlequin shrimp. I doubt the small water going down the drain is as important as some other stuff.

[Reefstalker]

Oh...so because Vegas wastes billions of gallons of water a year then it's ok for us to waste a little bit, since our little bit is inconsequential anyway? Or, because I live next to one of the largest bodies of freshwater in the world means its okay to waste it?

 

That's our answer? It's okay to waste water because what we waste is small compared to others? Maybe that's why our environment is going to the pits, because most of us think that our small little world has little impact to the rest of the world at large. But it does.

 

Switching topics a bit -- what do people in this Board do to give back to our oceans? Anyone contribute to reef preservation or conservation efforts? If so, which ones?

 

Thanks for humoring me. These are some the things I think about as I look at the little slice of ocean in my living room...which of course is already hypocritical in it of itself. To ease my conscience, I'm a financial supporter of the Coral Reef Alliance (http://www.coralreefalliance.org/), a nonprofit member-supported organization whose mission is to promote sustainable coral reef management and tourism.

 

I don't work for CRA nor do I get anything for plugging them. But if all of us contributed a fraction of what we spent on livestock and equipment to organizations such as these, maybe we'll preserve a little bit of what's left of the oceans for our grandchildren.

[er1c_the_reefer]

i'm not "green" nor i do care about wasting one 1 drop of one of the most abundant molecules on the planet. i drive an SUV (sometimes), and the combustion of hydrocarbons in the engine produces CO2 and H2O... carbon dioxide and water.

 

i don't contribute to any reef funds. the only "green" organization i contribute too on a regular basis is the access fund, and thats only so i can continue with rockclimbing. if your here to imply that we're greedy grease sucking pigs... well, i am's what i am's and indeed thou art holier i... but i have better things to worry about.

[Phixion]

Owning a reef tank and b!tching about RO/DI "waste" water is a bit hypocritical if you think long and hard enough about it. Isn't your tank of coral bad for the environment from the sheer prospect of coral harvesting? And the "well mine is propagated from existing tanks" is crap too, because that propagated coral still came from a coral harvested from the ocean at some point in time.

 

Bottom line, I'd be willing to bet the stuff you have in your tank being pulled from it's habitat is far more detrimental to the environment than my RO/DI system's "waste" water. Just some food for thought. Also keep in mind that not all municipal tap water is as good as yours if yours is even that good. My tap here in LA is around 200 TDS which is rather good compared to a lot of places, but it's still loaded with phosphates, heavy metals and now they are upping the flouride concentration as well. So with that in mind, I will NOT risk my $$$ invested in my tank from my city's tap water (which half the year is collected from ground wells that are showing concentrations of prochloriate in the water table from JPL nearby, it's basically rocket fuel waste by-product).

 

BTW, what do I give back to the ocean? I gladly give back my RO/DI waste water, because that's where it ends up.

[er1c_the_reefer]

200? that's it? man, OC water is crap then. i get 350 out of the hose

[Phixion]

200? that's it? man, OC water is crap then. i get 350 out of the hose

 

Time for a new hose.

 

But yeah, 200. Actually Pasadena water is between 200 and 220 when I tested it, I'm in San Gabriel so I get water from MWD, but it's at 200. Paasadena is fortunate enough to be one of the few cities around with it's own water quality labratory that constantly monitors water conditions all year long within it's boundries. I've heard of some places in CA that have near 600TDS water levels!! I thought anything over 500 is federally prohibited...

[ezcompany]

anything over 380 + tds is not potable anymore i believe. i get 340-350 tds.

 

here's my answer to this thread: do what you want, but don't be ignorant.

 

e.g.: though i do water changes weekly, i try to conserve as much power and water as possible. turn that extra light off, take showers not baths, don't let the water run when you brush your teeth, and don't flush after you pee! lol

 

 

here's also another tip: everyone that is power conscious and helps save energy helps prevent blackouts from happening during power intensive months (summer) which in return can wipe out saltwater tanks pretty fast

[Mr. Fosi]

Oh...so because Vegas wastes billions of gallons of water a year then it's ok for us to waste a little bit, since our little bit is inconsequential anyway?

 

First off, I don't agree that the flush water is certainly waste. It depends on where you live and the source/sink of your water. The arguments I provided assumed that you were correct, but I you are not. I made those arguments to illustrate the absurdity of your conviction.

 

Second: You can make whatever argument you want to support your feelings. The fact is that you personally using a couple hundred gallons less per year won't make 1 millionth of one percent of real-world difference. What it will do is make you feel better and make it easier for you to rationalize away the other areas in which you are wasting water and doing nothing about it.

 

Maybe that's why our environment is going to the pits, because most of us think that our small little world has little impact to the rest of the world at large. But it does.

 

Maybe, or maybe it is because empty-headed eco-toddlers focus on the wrong areas. You want to make a real difference? Form your own lobbying group and go toe-to-toe with all the manufacturers and power plants that "waste" billions of gallons per year instead of inflating the importance of your piddly couple hundred gallons.

 

It's a matter of malformed priorities. Why not put the focus on the areas that actually need to be improved instead of making broad assumptions about what constitutes waste and environmental degredation?

[Phixion]

anything over 380 + tds is not potable anymore i believe. i get 340-350 tds.

 

here's my answer to this thread: do what you want, but don't be ignorant.

 

e.g.: though i do water changes weekly, i try to conserve as much power and water as possible. turn that extra light off, take showers not baths, don't let the water run when you brush your teeth, and don't flush after you pee! lol

here's also another tip: everyone that is power conscious and helps save energy helps prevent blackouts from happening during power intensive months (summer) which in return can wipe out saltwater tanks pretty fast

 

Especially being with Edison, this is precisly why I leave my A/C OFF while I'm at work during the day. Who cares if my apartment gets up to 90+ by the time I get home, at least I know my chiller is FAR less likely to suck power from the grid than my central air A/C unit.

 

And actually (at least according to HM meters) over 500TDS is not potable, and water supplies aren't supposed to be over 500 by law...

[121a]

If your worried about "wasting water" then your in the wrong hobby.

Also no one has to contribute to a save a reef foundation because, in an odd sense we already are. Think about it, we take a coral from the ocean, put it into a controlled and monitored environment (our tanks) and depending on where it was located (a reef that was bleaching) you just saved a coral.

So now you want the best for the tank, you use a RO/DI unit. Also i live about 25 minutes from Lake Michigan (Chicago).

[owen502]

More than two-thirds of New Orleans drinking water is leaking away, the Times-Picayune reports this morning. "About 85 million gallons of drinking water -- more than two-thirds of the total pumped into the pipes -- are leaking into the ground every day through breaks in New Orleans' hurricane-fractured water system, even after crews this week plugged a 15 million-gallon-per-day crack using a process that cut water pressure, in some cases to a dribble, from Uptown to Gentilly," the story begins.

 

A comparison provides more math: "Now, with the population estimated to have reached 221,000, the water board is pumping out more drinking water than before the storm only to see the bulk of it vanish underground."

 

This is from the USA Today

 

I think more water leaks out of the New Orleans system than all the RO units used by aquarium people in the world.

[ezcompany]

If your worried about "wasting water" then your in the wrong hobby.

Also no one has to contribute to a save a reef foundation because, in an odd sense we already are. Think about it, we take a coral from the ocean, put it into a controlled and monitored environment (our tanks) and depending on where it was located (a reef that was bleaching) you just saved a coral.

So now you want the best for the tank, you use a RO/DI unit. Also i live about 25 minutes from Lake Michigan (Chicago).

 

our hobby does much more harm than good to the ocean.

have you ever seen the huge freezer boxes they have at the wholesale places? tons and tons of frozen dead fish from collection. not to mention collection of liverock and wild coral.

[HecticDialectics]

It's a matter of malformed priorities.

 

+1 Acting like RO/DI units are destroying the environment is silly.

 

 

 

 

I fill up a glass of water, drink half of it, and dump the other half out. They're gonna come after me next. :X