ICH!

[stacey]

My boyfriend bought me a fuzzy dwarf lionfish as a suprise (that I didn't want) yesterday, and it died today. I just came home to this fish in my 40 gallon tank. Now, my other fish (a arc-eye hawkfish, and a tank-raised false perc) have ich. Is there anything that I can do to help them out? I don't have a QT tank up right now, and I do have (and plan to get more) inverts in the tank. I would rather not medicate them if I can at all avoid it.

 

The hawk is still eating well, but the perc is eating it and then spitting it out. I have been feeding them formula one pellets with garlic, but I didn't know what else that I can do without stressing them and making it worse. The perc has been in the tank for almost 3 weeks, and the hawk has been in there for almost a week. All of the tank params are normal (ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrate-5, pH-7.8, sg-1.023, temp-80) and have been stable for the last 6 weeks (the tank has been up for about 9 weeks). The clown hasn't ever been a great eater, so I don't really think that he is eating less because of ich. I have tried brine, mysis, flakes, ora pellets, and hikari pellets.

[ReeFur]

the only solution is probably medication..I left my fish untreated and they all died...but get a QT tank

[stacey]

I had a QT set up, but I added a bunch of live sand/live rock to it about a week ago so I really don't want to medicate in it and I don't have anywhere else to put it. I was done adding fish to the tank for quite a while, but stupid brought home that fish. I guess that it is just murphy's law; no problems until the QT gets upgraded.

[LoBo]

you should have used the search button.

 

that sucks, if you knew it was going to be a QT, why would u add LR and LS?

[stacey]

you should have used the search button.

 

that sucks, if you knew it was going to be a QT, why would u add LR and LS?

 

 

Sorry. I did use the search, but I was looking for a little more specific help.

 

The tank was a QT tank, but I upgraded it because I wasn't planning on adding anymore fish to the 40 gallon tank for quite a while. I kept each of the fish in the QT for a week, and they did fine the entire time, so I added them to the main tank. The b/f is just plain stupid. I know that he meant well with it, but it really sucks that I may loose both of the other fish now too. I took the live rock/sand out of the 12 gallon, placed it back into the 40 gallon, and then put the fish into the 12 gallon.

 

Does garlic really work? If so, can I just use regular garlic or do I need to get some special kind from the lfs?

[stacey]

Update: I tested the water and everything was okay except for the nitrates (they were at 20). So I decided to do a 2 gallon water change to bring them down, and I also am going to lower the salinity just a bit (it is at 1.023, but I am going to try to drop it to 1.022 or maybe 1.021 tonight with the thought that it may help with the ich, but the change be so small that it won't stress the fish thus making them worse.

 

I dipped a handful of chaeto into the tank, and the clown is really going after the pods. I know clowns tend to be pigs, but is the eating a good sign (especially since it hasn't been)? The hawk seems to be hiding a bit more than usual, but the clown is swimming fairly normally.

[RayWhisperer]

If they are still active and eating, it's a good sign. I don't think garlic will do anything for them. Garlic is used primarily as a feeding stimulator, and "supposedly" boosts the immune system.

 

Though it is stressful, I would consider lowering your salinity in the neighborhood of 1.019 or 1.018 for any kind of effect on ich. 1.021 won't do a thing. Do this very slowly if you intend on doing it. once you get it there, you might also consider bumping your heat up some. This speeds up the life cycle of ich. Don't go too high though, shoot for around 83. Do this slowly as well. Keep feeding them, and doing partial water changes. Be extra careful with tank parameters, and be sure to match the new water to that.

 

If the treatment works, return everything to normal, SLOWLY.

[Jefe12234]

Hyposalinity is considered one of the best ways to treat Ich. If you could move your fish to a QT tank and lower the salinity to about 14 ppt for about a month while your display runs fishless, you should have it beat. This salinity is necessary because Ich has been known to survive at salinities above 16 ppt. It is not stressful to the fish though, because fish have an internal salinity of 12 ppt. Lowering the salinity actually makes less work for their bodies since they don't have to excrete as much salt. Three weeks is the minimum time required to kill all parasites due to the Ich life cycle, and a month is better just to be sure. I've been reading up on this because I'm going to treat my own fish soon.

 

Here's a good article on Ich, http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

 

And here's a recent one on hyposalinity, http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish

[stacey]

I know that I need to set up a QT, but will hyposalinity hurt inverts?

 

I have been slowly lowering the salinity with each water change (I have been doing 2 gallons per day) in the main tank, but it is only down to 1.022. I am afraid to lower it quickly, stress the fish, and thus make the ich worse. I only have a few hermits, a couple snails, and a horseshoe crab in the tank along with the fish.

[Jefe12234]

If you're treating the fish for Ich, then you should remove all the inverts from the QT. They probably will not tolerate hyposalinity the same way fish will. I would just put them in the display tank while you treat the fish. Lowering the salinity can be done more quickly than raising it because you're making less work for the fish's body by lowering the salinity and more work by raising it. As long as you keep the temperature and pH consistent the fish should not be stressed by the changing salinity. Keep an eye on alkalinity as you reduce the salinity because it will be removed along with the salt. Add a buffer as necessary to maintain alkalinity and your pH should stay in line. And keep in mind that you have to go all the way down to 14 ppt or you're not really doing anything to eliminate the Ich. At 77 degrees I think that's a specific gravity of around 1.011.

[stacey]

Well, the clown died today and I do not have a whole lot of hope that the hawk will live much longer.

 

I have been doing 2 gallon water changes every day, and I have the salinity down to 1.019. The params have been fairly normal (ammonia-0, nitrites-0, pH-7.8, temp-80), except for the nitrates have been a bit high (10-15 even with the daily water changes). I haven't tested the water for nitrates before adding salt to it, but I am using distilled water and oceanic salt. Also, I put in a new filter cartridge (that I rinsed with tank water before putting it in).

 

The hawk is still being somewhat active, but it isn't eating quite as well. It isn't seeming to scratch on the rocks as much as it has been for the last couple of days. I offered it some mysis shrimp this morning and then a little bit of enriched brine shrimp later in the day, and it ate a little bit of both but it didn't go after it with the gusto that it had previously. It seems to be breathing a little heavy, which is worrying me, so I am a little scared to turn the heat up higher.

[stacey]

Another update: The hawk is still alive, but I really don't think that it is going to make it through the night. It is breathing really hard, not swimming at all just hiding, and when it does move around it is just scratching. It is still eating, but not near as well as it has been.

 

The water params have all been mostly normal and stable. The ammonia is 0, the nitrites are 0, the nitrates are 10 (which is a little high), temp is 80, and specific gravity is 1.019. I did put a small handful of chaeto in the QT to try to get the nitrates down and for some pods for the hawk to eat, but it hasn't seemed to help yet. I am still doing the 2 gallon daily water changes.

[Uploadead]

Any update on hawkfish? SOrry to hear about the clownfish.

[seahorsedreams]

I'm lost. Do you have the fish in a QT tank or did you leave them in the display? The hawk won't get better (unless it is one of those rare occasions where they heal themselves of the infestation) because a 1.019 isn't going to do anything. Someone stated above the proper salinity you need to go to and also mentioned the fact you do not have to do it slowly. Reducing the salinity doesn't have to be slow... raising it back up does. And I would use a refractometer to do this if you weren't already.

 

That mix of fish wouldn't have lasted as is. My fuzzy can engulf my fist if he wanted to.... would have made short work of your clown.

[BrassMonkey030]

ich sucks. i had a clown with it was so bad i had to put em out. i took em out the way i would wwant to. 3 parts salt water, one part bacardi.

 

i have conquered it twice tho. feed heavy, my fish hate garlic.

[stacey]

Any update on hawkfish? SOrry to hear about the clownfish.

 

He died a few days after the clown did.

 

I'm lost. Do you have the fish in a QT tank or did you leave them in the display? The hawk won't get better (unless it is one of those rare occasions where they heal themselves of the infestation) because a 1.019 isn't going to do anything. Someone stated above the proper salinity you need to go to and also mentioned the fact you do not have to do it slowly. Reducing the salinity doesn't have to be slow... raising it back up does. And I would use a refractometer to do this if you weren't already.

 

That mix of fish wouldn't have lasted as is. My fuzzy can engulf my fist if he wanted to.... would have made short work of your clown.

 

They were in the 40 gallon tank, but I took the LS and LR out of the 12 gallon to use as a QT. I didn't get or want the lion, but the BF thought that it was neat and bought it. The lion was way smaller than the clown anyways, but if they would of lived they would of been kept in different tanks.

 

Now I am letting both tanks sit for at least 6 weeks before I start re-stocking. It is worse than waiting for them to cycle.