Little fungiid factory--back in business?

[c est ma]

FINALLY!!!!

 

OK, actually it wasn't completely spontaneous...I was trying to pick off some of the algae on the plate frag tonight when I accidentally dislodged the baby plate! I didn't even touch it--the little jerk that occurred when the algae I was pulling on broke loose was enough to detach the plate...in retrospect, it has probably been ready to "jump" for a while and perhaps I should have jostled it sooner! Anyway, I'm back in the plate business.

 

PICS

 

First pic in the watchglass:

 

 

It is so tiny--even after growing for 9 months! Maybe I should have fed it more...As you can see, it's only a bit more than 1/4" in diameter...~7.5 x 8 mm:

 

 

It opened right up as soon as I put it back in the tank. The bars that form the star pattern are nearly neon-green:

 

 

 

Here's the detachment site. You can see why I wanted to attack the algae! Now I will have a chance to take the frag out and give it a good cleaning. I can't wait to see if this site starts to grow a new plate, and if so, how soon:

 

 

 

--Diane

[michelle02]

This wee plate in the pic came off my live rock last year, it was the same as yours when it was tiny now it is about 2" and has a gorgeous green tinge to its stripes, the site it fell off of has just started to grow a new 1 more or less exactly the same as the other its taken maybe 3 months to grow i think, kinda hard to tell as it is partially hidden by another plate which is about 2 & a half inches across which refuses to detach. I have around 14 baby plates now in total, most still on the rock but 4 are on my sand, 1 of which on the rock is so lovely, its a bright flourescent green with stripes and refuses to detach also, the porite next to it is creeping closer trying to budge it out the way.

[greeneyes]

I have said 100x and I will say it again. You have such great pics and wonderful info to follow them.

[c est ma]

This wee plate in the pic came off my live rock last year, it was the same as yours when it was tiny now it is about 2" and has a gorgeous green tinge to its stripes, the site it fell off of has just started to grow a new 1 more or less exactly the same as the other its taken maybe 3 months to grow i think, kinda hard to tell as it is partially hidden by another plate which is about 2 & a half inches across which refuses to detach. I have around 14 baby plates now in total, most still on the rock but 4 are on my sand, 1 of which on the rock is so lovely, its a bright flourescent green with stripes and refuses to detach also, the porite next to it is creeping closer trying to budge it out the way.

 

 

WOW! Michelle, that is so encouraging. Do you feed yours much? How often? And it sounds as if you have different colors being produced from the same site(s)? This is SUCH a cool phenomenon.

 

I really wish you'd start a new plate thread (or add to your first one) with lots of pics! Or just add more in this thread!

 

Interesting that your rock has Porites, too. I want to say mine was an Indonesian frag, but I'm not sure I remember correctly. Anyway it, too, has Porites and a plate generator.

 

I'd love to see a pic of the rock where your plates grow!

 

I have said 100x and I will say it again. You have such great pics and wonderful info to follow them.

 

Aw, thanks so much! You are too kind.

 

--Diane

[c est ma]

Some pics after today's feeding of Cyclopeeze:

 

Beginning to take on that "Hershey's Kisses" shape:

 

 

After removing the watchglass w/ coral to clean out excess food, and replacing in tank:

 

 

 

 

In all these you can see the pink mass of the Cyclopeeze within the coral.

 

--Diane

[cmador]

Looks like a happy little guy. Good work.

[arwndsh]

Ok Diane I did it. I borrowed my roommates camera and took pics of my plates. The first two pics are of the plate generating site unfortunately something had annoyed it so you cannot see the new growth, the site is circled in red.

 

 

 

This is a pic of the plate that detatched from this site around Christmas time. Its the big green/blue one on the left. The one on the right is the one that looks like yours.

 

This is a pic of the plate that is still attatched to its site.

 

This is a pic of my plate garden.

 

I'm also going to post this in your thread since we started discusing them there.

[Duncan]

You all plate grower!

[c est ma]

Amber, thanks again for taking those pics! I can't get enough of them, and they raise all sorts of questions. So, your little generating site is very much like mine, no? 'S funny, because most people say these sites occur on the skeleton of a large, dead fungiid, but I sure can't discern any such skeleton around my site. Does yours look at all like it's sitting on another fungiid skeleton? It doesn't from what I can see...

 

So, since your site is at least somewhat horizontal, I guess that might encourage the plates to get a bit bigger before detaching...once mine start to grow, they end up hanging off the edge of the vertically oriented site...

 

Have you had any fall off that were as tiny as mine and that you grew successfully?

 

Did all those plates come from that one site?!

 

The one that's still on the rock--do you think it's on another generating site, then?

 

And I think you did say you've gotten a variety of colors from one site? Or am I mistaken?

 

Do you have any hermits or other mobile inverts in your tank with the plates?

 

Feel free to throw in anything else you can think of.

 

Thanks again,

 

--Diane

[michelle02]

heres a pic of the rock my plates come from, you can see the gorgeous green stripe 1 still on the rock alongside porites, if you look real close you will spot more on the rock i feed mine mysis & brine shrimp once or twice a week

 

more babies Ive got 2 hermit crabs which crawl over them now and again but dont do any harm.

[arwndsh]

Amber, thanks again for taking those pics! I can't get enough of them, and they raise all sorts of questions. So, your little generating site is very much like mine, no? 'S funny, because most people say these sites occur on the skeleton of a large, dead fungiid, but I sure can't discern any such skeleton around my site. Does yours look at all like it's sitting on another fungiid skeleton? It doesn't from what I can see...

 

So, since your site is at least somewhat horizontal, I guess that might encourage the plates to get a bit bigger before detaching...once mine start to grow, they end up hanging off the edge of the vertically oriented site...

 

Have you had any fall off that were as tiny as mine and that you grew successfully?

 

Did all those plates come from that one site?!

 

The one that's still on the rock--do you think it's on another generating site, then?

 

And I think you did say you've gotten a variety of colors from one site? Or am I mistaken?

 

Do you have any hermits or other mobile inverts in your tank with the plates?

 

Feel free to throw in anything else you can think of.

 

Thanks again,

 

--Diane

 

Both growing sites appear to just be coming out of the rock and from what I can see akward angles and all it doesn't appear to be a skeleton of one. The green one is the only one that I have had so far detach (I've only had the rock for about 2 1/2 months). I think mine being where they grow horizontal is a key factor.

 

Yes, I think the one still attatched to the rock is a plate generating site.

 

No, I've just gotten the one plate from that site, but am hoping the next one might be a different color.

 

I have snails, sexy shrimp, and a pistol shrimp. No crabs. The pistol shrimp is the only thing that caused anoyance. He likes to bury them, steal them, or move them. It doesn't appear to cause them any harm though.

 

I wonder something though, I think Daniels halimitra is attatched to a rock I wonder if it ever detatches if it will be a growth site?

 

Is your baby perfectly circular? The one I have still attatched is and all the others ones I have purchased are, but the green one that detatched from the other site isn't. There was something in its way as it grew so the skeleton has these weird indentions in the side, you can see something sticking up near the left of the site in the first pic. I'll try to borrow my roommates camera again and see if I can get a better pic of the plate when it is upset to show you what I mean. You can't see it when it inflates because then somehow it is perfectly circular.

 

If you have anything else you want to ask feel free to and I will try to answer them.

[c est ma]

heres a pic of the rock my plates come from, you can see the gorgeous green stripe 1 still on the rock alongside porites, if you look real close you will spot more on the rock i feed mine mysis & brine shrimp once or twice a week

 

more babies Ive got 2 hermit crabs which crawl over them now and again but dont do any harm.

 

Thank you for posting those! You're right, that green-striped one is fantastic!

 

Looks like a most interesting rock altogether...

 

So do you get different colored plates from the same attachment site, or does each color come from a different site?

 

Glad to get your report on the hermits. My emerald crab conveniently died barely more than a week before the plate detached. (Actually, of course, I was very sorry to lose her, and am mystified as to what happened. I'd much rather have put her in the 'fuge or returned her to the lfs...) That leaves me with just a couple of hermits, a pom pom, and of course the brittle stars in the way of fairly large motile inverts...I'm hoping I don't have to worry about any of them...

 

BTW, did you know that rock had the plates and/or the Porites on it when you bought it?

 

--Diane

[jkreefer]

nice babies.

[c est ma]

Both growing sites appear to just be coming out of the rock and from what I can see akward angles and all it doesn't appear to be a skeleton of one. The green one is the only one that I have had so far detach (I've only had the rock for about 2 1/2 months). I think mine being where they grow horizontal is a key factor.

 

Yes, I think the one still attatched to the rock is a plate generating site.

 

No, I've just gotten the one plate from that site, but am hoping the next one might be a different color.

 

I have snails, sexy shrimp, and a pistol shrimp. No crabs. The pistol shrimp is the only thing that caused anoyance. He likes to bury them, steal them, or move them. It doesn't appear to cause them any harm though.

 

 

That was my experience with my first one. I saw hermits crawl over it and a few times I saw my emerald pick it up to get to something underneath. Everytime the plate was fine...until the fateful day when the emerald saw or sensed that nice wad of Cyclopeeze sitting inside the plate and tore it open...

 

I wonder something though, I think Daniels halimitra is attatched to a rock I wonder if it ever detatches if it will be a growth site?

 

That would be cool! It seems to me, from the reading I did back when the first one detached, that not all species reproduce like this. But I don't know if that's a known fact or if only some species have recorded observations of such behavior so far...

 

Is your baby perfectly circular? The one I have still attatched is and all the others ones I have purchased are, but the green one that detatched from the other site isn't. There was something in its way as it grew so the skeleton has these weird indentions in the side, you can see something sticking up near the left of the site in the first pic. I'll try to borrow my roommates camera again and see if I can get a better pic of the plate when it is upset to show you what I mean. You can't see it when it inflates because then somehow it is perfectly circular.

 

"Is your baby perfectly circular?" Not at all! For one thing, the way mine grows vertically, gravity alone seems to stretch it in the earth-ward direction. See this pic when it was still attached--I've tried to indicate the bottom side of the cannon-shaped projection that produces the plates...unfortunately, the stupid algae obscures it otherwise:

 

 

In addition, the algae on top seems to interfere with the tentacles extending in that direction (tho, strangely, it doesn't seem to hurt the tents on the sides or bottom...And if you go back and look at the generating site after the plate detached, you can see it isn't symmetrical to begin with...

 

Not only is the plate not a perfect circle, ATM its skeleton is significantly higher on one side than the other. See it sitting atilt, from this angle (showing plate after ingesting a sinking pellet):

 

 

But you're right, the asymmetry is less obvious when it's inflated.

 

If you have anything else you want to ask feel free to and I will try to answer them.

 

I'm sure I'll think of something! Thanks for all the info so far!

 

--Diane

[michelle02]

The rock was completely bare appart from corraline algae, although there were skeletons of dead coral on the rock, i can only assume they regenerated which is amazing! i was thrilled to bits to see the ammount of life that has grown on that rock, porites, plates, feather dusters, numerous bi-valves tiny scallops etc. Each colour of plate comes from a different site. I unlike some people totally love hitch hikers and i spend hours staring at the rock looking for new ones, it just amazes me

[michelle02]

This was my rock when i first put it in, as you can see there is nothing growing on it at all.

[arwndsh]

I think what amazes me the most is it seems that we all have a different type of rock. Mine is on a piece of rock called "bioball" by the lfs. They got a huge shipment of the stuff awhile back and the owner stuck a lot of it into actual tanks. It has grown all kinds of weird stuff. One piece they have (that they refuse to sell) has this awesome blue and brown stuff growing on it kind of like a second skin. My piece not only has the plates, but it also has these little maroon daisy polyps growing on it.

 

Diane, thanks for your reply, I vagually remember H7brandi saying something about her halimitra reproducing so I think I'll send her a pm with a link to this thread so we can get her view on this.

[H7brandi]

Hello everyone. Thanks for inviting me over. Yes, the halomitra along with about 5 or 6 other fungiids continue to reproduce on our little plate factory. I'll do my best to describe my observations.

 

First of all the factory is a rock is shaped similar to a human right hand held as if it were holding a baseball. The halomitra is growing on top of the pointer finger. The last detachment from that one was Oct/Nov time frame and the new one is already about 2" diameter.

 

The other fungiids are at various spots facing the palm of the hand. They do seem to grow fairly symetrical until two different types get within about 1/4" of each other. The similar colored ones usually tend to detach if they interfere with each others space. The size at which they fall off is generally 1.5-2" but I think they are able to hold on longer due to the rock sheilding them from the current.

 

As far as them growing back, the same colors always come back from the same spots. The rate at which they do grow back has varied greatly. Sometimes one will detach and then the next day you can see new tissue. Other times, I will think one has stopped reproducing and a couple of weeks later, I will see life yet again. The 'stem' from which they grow get slightly higher each time.

 

So on to the reproduction. Fungiids will not attach to rock after they dislodge themselves. I have thought about gluing them and seeing if they would grow a stalk, but from what I have seen they seem to grow from the outer ring...so this seems an unlikely route. I did happen upon this article http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0897/0897_1.html which makes me think maybe a slice and dice route would be the best way to propagate these. Amber, let Daniel know if he would like to experiment on the fungia I sent, I will replace his if it is a failure. He would just have to post his procedures and results on here for us to learn. I would love to try it, but I don't have the time or tank space right now to do it.

 

I would say I'll do pictures when I get home because there is no school tonight, but I have a hard time with keeping to those promises. Lets just say I will shot for some time this week!

[c est ma]

The rock was completely bare appart from corraline algae, although there were skeletons of dead coral on the rock, i can only assume they regenerated which is amazing! i was thrilled to bits to see the ammount of life that has grown on that rock, porites, plates, feather dusters, numerous bi-valves tiny scallops etc. Each colour of plate comes from a different site. I unlike some people totally love hitch hikers and i spend hours staring at the rock looking for new ones, it just amazes me

 

 

Michelle, I couldn't agree more about the thrill of finding hitch hikers! We should all be so lucky as to get a rock like yours! Thanks for posting the "before" picture--really goes to show how much can come from something that seems so dead and barren.

 

--Diane

[dshnarw]

So on to the reproduction. Fungiids will not attach to rock after they dislodge themselves. I have thought about gluing them and seeing if they would grow a stalk, but from what I have seen they seem to grow from the outer ring...so this seems an unlikely route. I did happen upon this article http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0897/0897_1.html which makes me think maybe a slice and dice route would be the best way to propagate these. Amber, let Daniel know if he would like to experiment on the fungia I sent, I will replace his if it is a failure. He would just have to post his procedures and results on here for us to learn. I would love to try it, but I don't have the time or tank space right now to do it.

 

I've actually cut up a couple of Fungiids before with a tile saw. The local club had some donated by Dr Mac for showing people how to frag them and then give the frags away. I've only seen an update on one of the frags, which was doing well.

 

That said - one of the ones you sent me (small green with orange mouth) died back a lot while I was gone for Christmas break, to the point I thought it was a goner. A couple weeks later, the mouth was sticking out with almost no tissue left. A few weeks after that, there were about 25-30 TINY Fungiids popping up on the old skeleton, and the central mouth is growing new tissue quite nicely. I've left it to see what would happen, but I'm somewhat tempted to frag off each one and see if I can grow them out. Also wondering if they could turn into little "factories" of their own? I keep trying to get pics, but so far the camera isn't cooperating.

[c est ma]

I think what amazes me the most is it seems that we all have a different type of rock. Mine is on a piece of rock called "bioball" by the lfs. They got a huge shipment of the stuff awhile back and the owner stuck a lot of it into actual tanks. It has grown all kinds of weird stuff. One piece they have (that they refuse to sell) has this awesome blue and brown stuff growing on it kind of like a second skin. My piece not only has the plates, but it also has these little maroon daisy polyps growing on it.

 

Diane, thanks for your reply, I vagually remember H7brandi saying something about her halimitra reproducing so I think I'll send her a pm with a link to this thread so we can get her view on this.

 

 

Amber,

 

I have to think that our rock must have something in common--besides the plate sites, that is! It would help if I'd have paid more attention when I bought the frag my plate site is on...I remember that the lfs-owner alluded to its collection site but I did not commit the name to memory. "Bioball" sounds like an awful name for LR, if you ask me! (No offense!) But if I were you, I'd get as much of it as I could if they still have it when you set up your new tank...How cool to get more than one hitching coral!!

 

Thanks so much for getting H7brandi on this thread.

 

 

Hello everyone. Thanks for inviting me over. Yes, the halomitra along with about 5 or 6 other fungiids continue to reproduce on our little plate factory. I'll do my best to describe my observations.

 

First of all the factory is a rock is shaped similar to a human right hand held as if it were holding a baseball. The halomitra is growing on top of the pointer finger. The last detachment from that one was Oct/Nov time frame and the new one is already about 2" diameter.

 

The other fungiids are at various spots facing the palm of the hand. They do seem to grow fairly symetrical until two different types get within about 1/4" of each other. The similar colored ones usually tend to detach if they interfere with each others space. The size at which they fall off is generally 1.5-2" but I think they are able to hold on longer due to the rock sheilding them from the current.

 

As far as them growing back, the same colors always come back from the same spots. The rate at which they do grow back has varied greatly. Sometimes one will detach and then the next day you can see new tissue. Other times, I will think one has stopped reproducing and a couple of weeks later, I will see life yet again. The 'stem' from which they grow get slightly higher each time.

 

So on to the reproduction. Fungiids will not attach to rock after they dislodge themselves. I have thought about gluing them and seeing if they would grow a stalk, but from what I have seen they seem to grow from the outer ring...so this seems an unlikely route. I did happen upon this article http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0897/0897_1.html which makes me think maybe a slice and dice route would be the best way to propagate these. Amber, let Daniel know if he would like to experiment on the fungia I sent, I will replace his if it is a failure. He would just have to post his procedures and results on here for us to learn. I would love to try it, but I don't have the time or tank space right now to do it.

 

I would say I'll do pictures when I get home because there is no school tonight, but I have a hard time with keeping to those promises. Lets just say I will shot for some time this week!

 

 

Brandi, thank you so much for the informative, detailed post! I really appreciate your descriptions and measurements. I do hope you will find time for some pics.

 

I had no idea Halomitra also grew this way. That is so fantastic! When my first plate detached, I was leaning toward Cycloseris as an ID, but it was killed at a tiny stage. I hope I can get my current one to survive and get a better idea as to at least its genus.

 

It sure would be wonderful to get them the size of yours when they detach. As mentioned, mine was barely 7mm when it detached (it's now almost exactly 1cm--or, still less than 0.5"). I think it is most interesting that you have a variety of spp growing from the same rock, as well!

 

As to trying to frag any of these, I'll definitely leave that to you and/or Daniel to experiment with...

 

Ah, yes, I remember saving that Borneman article the first time my plate appeared. It was most interesting to go back and reread it, and reminds me that I have other articles saved that I should revisit as well. I notice that in this article Borneman talks about certain anthocauli that apparently form from planulae themselves, which would appear to be what we are dealing with here.

 

Because fungiids are designed to move around, I was surprised to find that my local lfs was gluing them to plugs. Apparently it does not harm the growing fungiid, but I would be loath to try it. When mine outgrows its watch glass, tho, I'm going to have to either start a new tank or ditch a lot of other things, as my substrate is essentially full as it is.

 

Speaking of my newest detached plate, it continues to eat and grow well. Oddly, I have found it out of its watch glass 2 mornings! While they can move, I sort of doubt they can climb vertical glass sides...but who knows? I rather think it was moved by some CUC member, though...

 

Last time I found it AWOL, it was under a zoa polyp, which looks decidedly unhappy...I hope it recovers.

 

And my generation site has started regenerating right away!

 

Some pics:

 

The new detachee:

 

 

The generating site, 2/19/08 (red arrow as a reminder of where it is ):

 

 

On 2/22/08:

 

 

And today, 2/23:

 

 

--Diane

[c est ma]

I've actually cut up a couple of Fungiids before with a tile saw. The local club had some donated by Dr Mac for showing people how to frag them and then give the frags away. I've only seen an update on one of the frags, which was doing well.

 

That said - one of the ones you sent me (small green with orange mouth) died back a lot while I was gone for Christmas break, to the point I thought it was a goner. A couple weeks later, the mouth was sticking out with almost no tissue left. A few weeks after that, there were about 25-30 TINY Fungiids popping up on the old skeleton, and the central mouth is growing new tissue quite nicely. I've left it to see what would happen, but I'm somewhat tempted to frag off each one and see if I can grow them out. Also wondering if they could turn into little "factories" of their own? I keep trying to get pics, but so far the camera isn't cooperating.

 

(You were replying while I was. )

 

WOW. If ever there was a need for pictures!! Keep trying!

 

When you fragged them, did you just slice them through the mouth, like a 'nem? I don't think I could ever do that...

 

From what I've read, once anthocauli form, they persist. I certainly had no idea they could form so quickly!

 

--Diane

[arwndsh]

Wowzers!! It grew back in a hurry didn't it? I wonder if mine did as well and I just didn't notice it since that site points to the back of the tank. Hmmmmm. I think I might get some cyclopeeze to see if it will eat some and I'm sure my other filter feeders would appreciate it. That will have to wait until after spring break though because they make us defrost our refridgerators then (not good if I'm trying to keep fish food frozen). Daniel and I are getting a new camera for underwater stuff so I might be able to convience him to take some shots of my tank when he is here for his spring break.

 

Daniel you didn't tell me about your babies shame on you.

[dshnarw]

(You were replying while I was. )

 

WOW. If ever there was a need for pictures!! Keep trying!

 

When you fragged them, did you just slice them through the mouth, like a 'nem? I don't think I could ever do that...

 

From what I've read, once anthocauli form, they persist. I certainly had no idea they could form so quickly!

 

--Diane

 

I will...as Amber mentioned, we're getting a new camera, so hopefully I can decent pics with that one. One added issue is that the skeleton is very conducive to inhabitation by macroalgaes, so I'm constantly picking off Caulerpa and some other odd species.

 

Yeah - slice through the mouth, divided up like a piece of pie. One was quartered, and the other was cut into sixths. Some online vendors have been doing it successfully as well - SeaCrop chops up all the more common Fungiids - Cycloseris, Fungia, Herpolitha, Polyphyllia - and FraggleReef is chopping up Lithophyllon (but it's easier since it has multiple mouths).

 

Off topic...but what's up with this "plate corals aren't very hardy" talk I keep hearing lately? Heliofungia, sure, but Fungia and Cycloseris?

 

 

Daniel you didn't tell me about your babies shame on you.

 

You just didn't listen

[c est ma]

I will...as Amber mentioned, we're getting a new camera, so hopefully I can decent pics with that one. One added issue is that the skeleton is very conducive to inhabitation by macroalgaes, so I'm constantly picking off Caulerpa and some other odd species.

 

I can believe that. Even my little 3/4" skeleton was an algae magnet. All those little crevices...

 

Yeah - slice through the mouth, divided up like a piece of pie. One was quartered, and the other was cut into sixths. Some online vendors have been doing it successfully as well - SeaCrop chops up all the more common Fungiids - Cycloseris, Fungia, Herpolitha, Polyphyllia - and FraggleReef is chopping up Lithophyllon (but it's easier since it has multiple mouths).

 

If they survive that, why don't they survive an emerald crab taking a divot out of them?

 

Off topic...but what's up with this "plate corals aren't very hardy" talk I keep hearing lately? Heliofungia, sure, but Fungia and Cycloseris?

 

I had not heard that. Maybe that comes from the crowd that believes in never feeding anything...

 

--Diane