Panic Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 'nother stupid question (yes, I've checked previous posts) Should I put my base rocks on top of the live sand, or on the bottom of the tank and pour the live sand around it? I'm concerned about dead spots (sniff sniff) in the live sand where the rock rests on it, as well as sand settling or being burrowed out by naughty digging creatures (ie. making the reef unstable) What to do? Panic "The liver is evil and must be punished" Link to comment
offsprg01 Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 one word styro foam. like the thin stuff the use to pack with. lay in on the bottom of you tank, lr next, the pour the sand around it. that way you wont have to worry about the lr being in direct contact with the tank bottom, which could cause the tank to crack. Link to comment
Panic Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 Excellent, thanks, didn't think of styrofoam. I was planning on getting a few dead rocks and grinding one side down until I had a flattish base which I'd lightly SilSeal into place (yeah, go ahead, laugh!). These would then form the base of the reef and would be as stable as, well, rock. But I was wondering about the "dead spots" in those spots too. Which got me thinking about dead spots in general (my thoughts are still trying to align themselves) Off-topic, I went to the LFS and asked the resident expert if I'd be able to keep a small percula in a 15g and he choked on his coffee. Thought I was nuts and tried to persuade me to go to at least 3'. But I persist, my biggest problem here in SA is trying to find someone who can import Power Compacts, looks like I'll be stuck with very short VHO's. Two more months til T-day. Thanks again! Panic Link to comment
tinyreef Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 i wouldn't recommend styrofoam. it will degrade over time and while that may not necessarily cause any problems ??? i can't see it helping or even being just neutral to your tiny ecosystem. eggcrate/light louvers is another option. although it's also styrenic material (usually) it typically takes UV to age it and degrade it. an acrylic sheet (preferable as it's more chemical resistant, bottom of sandbeds :x ) can also be used to spread out the pressure points or anything that can seat the rock in place and spread the weight (e.g. baby plastic tubular hangers or chopping up a milk crate to use its walls). Link to comment
Xavier Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 heh heh.. imagine tossing some of those packing "peanuts" made of starch into the tank for rock support.. as soon as you'd add water, the "peanuts" would completely desolve and destabilize the whole structure.. heh heh... Link to comment
Panic Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 I reckon'd that egg-crate would form a small plenum *phtew phtew* underneath the rock - I'm trying to avoid dead spots of water. Sand I'm fine with, because worms and stuff crawl around in it, but dead water makes me frown. Another Totally Different Question (ATDQ) - something I also haven't seen answered in the forums - how many times an hour must the water be circulated (powerheads) in a Nano? cheers Louis Link to comment
onthefly Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Xavier you beat me to it! All I could vision was a noob putting the peanuts in, rock, sand, and water and watching those babys come flying up like popcorn! I think your LFS gooru is being alittle narrow minded....obviously perc's are a very popular and hardy nano inhabitant! As for turnover, I've seen people say 10x/hr up to 30x/hr.....I guess it depends on your inhabitants. Link to comment
Nepthea Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 What about PVC pipe pieces being used to lift rock off the sand? Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I don't really have much to add but do have a query....why can't the live rock go directly on the live sand? understanding that there'll be dead spots in the sand where the live rock is placed....what is the prolonged effects of having those dead spots? Forgive me if i'm sounding silly here....i'm still kinda new at this and am just wondering how i'm gonna work around setting up my new tank as well..... Link to comment
offsprg01 Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 guys did your 5th grade science teacher get anything in to your think skull? (just kidding) styrofoam does not biodegrate. that's why all the bunny huggers hate it so much. and i did no say anything about packing peanuts. use the thins sheets not styrofoam they use to pack in computer boxes, light fixtures, stuff like that. i have used styrofoam as a base layer in 3 diffrent mbuna tanks two are still up right now. the styrofoam pad has never disolved, the tanks are as clean and clear as any i've seen with out the pad. people use the pad to protectr thew taankl bottem form the weitgh of many many lbs of rock pressing down on the glass at a few specific point and thus cracking the glass. you can ask almost anybody who keeps african rift lake cichlids. it's quite commnly used for this purpouse as cichlids dig sand to but they are much bigger and therefor dig much more sand, which can cause the rock formations in the tank to become unstable and fall. this is why i and many others use styrofoam as a base to set the rocks on and then pour the sand around the rocks. Link to comment
duckhuntboy Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Yeah, Kenny. LR can go directly on top of live sand. Just a preference Link to comment
tinyreef Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 www.belform.com/Products/styrofoam_sm.htm styrofoam does degrade, especially when exposed to uv. it may not dissolve like tissue but it does eventually breaks down when exposed to a uv light source. take it from a plastic mfg. (me). but i guess you're right, it should be fine if it's buried underneath the sand. i was surprised to see it had excellent acid resistance tho. i was thinking bottom sand bed issues would incur that would attack it via acids and crappie. but if it works you, i can't knock it but i still don't recommend it. LR could go right on top of the sand but if you ever get burrowers they may end up shifting your rocks and killing themselves by a cave-in or worst cracking the side of the tank with a rock. that being said i've stacked on top of sand too and almost five years later that tank is still fine. (but i don't have any vetebrate burrowers) Link to comment
offsprg01 Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 tinyreef i said BIODEGRATE. i know that it eventually breaks down when exposed to sunlight, which is why we stopped using if for target backstops at the bow shop. that white dust get all over everything. the link you posted even said that it won't BIODEGRATE. STYROFOAM brand insulation has no food value to attract or support plans or animal life. Exposure to direct sunlight for extended periods of time can result in ultraviolet degradation of the surface. Signs of UV degradation are a yellowing of the surface, followed by the formation of a thin layer of dust i can understand some one being hesitant about placing styrofoam in their nano which they are going to spend mega bucks on, but you can all ways set up a test tank. i think i might do that. Link to comment
tinyreef Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 the pvc is fine but you'd have to perforate the couplings to avoid the 'dead spots' concerns mentioned above. you could just get larger pipe and cut down or many couplings too but you're coming close to eggcrate depending on the size of the tank. the couplings might be too tall for a nano. a thin layer of sand beneath the eggcrate can resolve some of the 'dead spots' issues imo. the key is to have a stable and inert base. that's why i think sand should go in last. you can review your rock/base setup for a couple of days. if it looks good then add the sand which kinda locks everything in place or at least 'pockets' the rock (if you understand my gibberish). hth Link to comment
Nepthea Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 My thought was to have a 2" sand bed. So, I would take pvc pipe, and cut it into lots of 2.25" long pieces. Then place these under the rock. Hopefully finding "chunks" on the rock to rest inside the opening of the pvc pipe, making it stable. Would this setup work, or no? Will I still need to drill holes into these small pvc pipe pieces? Link to comment
tinyreef Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 the perforations were mentioned only because of the dead spot concerns. i've run plenums, bare bottom, sand, etc. and found the plenums to work quite well actually. i still don't like the thought of them : but functionally they seem to work fine. all my current tanks are sand only (ssb or msb) tho but i think it's your pers prefs. it's also up to you on the perforations but i don't think you really need them because it won't be a vacuum seal against the bottom of the rocks anyway. the 'difficulty' of diffusing water to those points are very similar to the dynamics of true dsb's imo (measuring the travel distance of the water). Link to comment
onthefly Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Beware, there is foam packing material that "dissolves" in water! It's made of starch. Link to comment
Xavier Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 exactly onthefly.. my post even stated as much... Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.