Cycling?

[beachsidejuj]

My tank has now been up for 8 weeks....have two snails in it that came with the rock....have 20 lbs of LS....10 of crushed coral...(know, I know..but I am not going to take it out. I am sure IT is live now)...10 lbs of LR...cured...BioWheel filtration....Jaeger heater....AquaClear 150 gph power head....I was using the strips to test everything but the Ammonia...my tank alway showed Nitrates 20 Nites Neg...ph 8.5...But now I am using the liquid method to test for Nitrates and Amm...I figure that I will test for the other things when I GET to put anything in my tank!!! Any how today the readings are: Amm 0.25 Nitrates 20 SP 1.23...these readings have been the same for the entire time the tank has been up....how can this be? I have not made a water change since I have been waiting from my tank to cycle...HELP!!!!!

[Mr. Fosi]

Have you had someone else test your water with another kit?

[beachsidejuj]

No I have not....

 

 

 

 

Have you had someone else test your water with another kit?

[mindaugas]

do u have a biowheel and filter cart in that filter? if so take it out, I have read more than once that they are horrible for SW tanks. otherwise make sure there is some LR crumble in the filter and take yer water to an LFS to test

[Mr. Fosi]

You don't need the biowheel, but it isn't technically a bad thing. You also don't need to have anything in the filter.

 

If you have any filter media (especially physical media) in that filter I strongly recommend that you remove it, as it will trap organic matter that will decay and cause nutrient problems similar to what you are seeing.

 

You should have someone with another kit confirm what your water tests are telling you.

[beachsidejuj]

Yes, I did have the blue "filter" thing in it..I take it out when it looks cruddy...if I take it out for good...all the stuff it has collected is going to be in my tank, isn't it? You know my Eclipse kit was sold as a saltwater kit...Instant Ocean Eclipse 12g.....they say the Bio Wheel has beneficial bacteria on it....is that not true?? I failed to mention that I have 2 snails(hitchhickers) that have lived in my tank and are doing well....so if I take both the filter media and the bio wheel out....when should I retest my tank?

[Mr. Fosi]

if I take [the sponge] out for good...all the stuff it has collected is going to be in my tank, isn't it?

 

It won't be "going into", you will simply not be trapping it. If you are using live rock, you certainly have quite a few filter feeders and detritovores that can & will take care of particulates.

 

...they say the Bio Wheel has beneficial bacteria on it....is that not true??

 

It is true, which is why I said that a biowheel isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, biowheels are mroe useful for fish-only tanks because of the huge bioload and small amount of surface area availible for the "beneficial bacteria" to grown on. You don't need it (the biowheel) because your live rock has all the "beneficial bacteria" you need.

 

You biowheel is a great place for culturing these bacteria, which seems like a really good thing until it gets so cruddy that you need to clean it. When you clean it you knock out a huge proportion of your nitrifiers. If you simply stick with LR, you will have all the "beneficial bacteria" you need and you won't have to worry about losing them due to a short power outage (biowheel dries out) or a need to clean up some crud.

 

... so if I take both the filter media and the bio wheel out....when should I retest my tank?

 

As soon as you want, but you likely won't see a difference for a day or two at least. At this point, removing the biowheel may have the effect of raising NH3 because you are removing a bunch of your nitrifiers. This isn't a bad thing (since I would remove the wheel if it were mine), but you should be prepared for an apparant second cycle.

[beachsidejuj]

OMG!! another cycle??? I wan't even aware that I had gone through the first one!!! What are exceptable norms....my trates are at .25 and my Amm at 20 and have been that since I started the tank!!!

[Mr. Fosi]

OMG!! another cycle???

 

No, an apparant second cycle and likely to be short.

 

I wan't even aware that I had gone through the first one!!!

 

You don't know where you are at with regard to you initial cycle because you have not yet confirmed your test results.

 

What are exceptable norms....my trates are at .25 and my Amm at 20 and have been that since I started the tank!!!

 

IMO: NO3 should be less than 30 mg/l & 0-10 mg/l is much better. NH3 must be 0 mg/l (i.e. undetectable).

 

The fact that these haven't changed is what makes me suspect your test results. I doubt you are administering the test incorrectly, which means you may have a faulty kit... hence the need to confirm your test results with another test administered by another person.

[beachsidejuj]

well I did have the bio wheel and filter stuff in all that time....and I used the dip sticks before ....just started to use the liquid testing for the nitrates....and both methods were the same results....I didn't start to test the Amm until about 3 weeks ago..the color of the green has decresed some but not enough to change the result...

[reefone]

having the stuff in the filter during the cycle wont hurt but id get rid of it now. better to get the cycle out of the way. later after the cycle u can use the filter for carbon,phosban, ect. to collect the junk in the tank use some filer floss in the filter when it gets dirty just throw it away and replace.

 

test strips r not very acurate. i bet this is why u r getting these readings. u said u had liquid test for the nitrates but u dont need realy to watch until u get to zero readings for nitrite and ammonia.id get liquid tests for those.

[beachsidejuj]

ok nitrates are the ones that turn into nitrites right? I do have liquid tests for nitrates and amm

[reefone]

nitrites turn into nitrates

[beachsidejuj]

I am testing N03

[kismetsh]

ok nitrates are the ones that turn into nitrites right?

 

No.

 

ammonia --> nitrites --> nitrates

 

NH4 --> NO2 --> NO3

[Mr. Fosi]

NH4 = ammonium

 

NH3 = ammonia

 

EDIT: Have you tried testing some freshly mixed SW with your kit(s)?

[kismetsh]

NH4 = ammonium

 

NH3 = ammonia

 

Oops, I must need another cup of coffee.

[beachsidejuj]

since my tank is 8 weeks old...I think I am going to do a partial water change...I am also going to add a CUC....my two hitchhickers have survied!!! I mean I am soooooooo ready to see SOME change in my tank!!

[Mr. Fosi]

A partial water change isn't a bad idea, but I still think you should make an attempt at identifying the source of your NH3 reading before you add livestock.

 

It's your tank, though, so you should do what you think is best.

[beachsidejuj]

could the nitrates be from the floss and carbon. the bio wheel??

[Mr. Fosi]

It's possible, which is why I (and others) have suggested that you remove them until you verify your cycle is complete.