arpanlib Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 hi, My friend wants to setup a 55 gallon tank and was wondering what could be the ideal filteration for it. the things that he has planned is a fish and invert system. reverse undergravel filter, one canister filter, 2 power heads for water flow, protein skimmer after 3 - 4 months. do you all recommend anything else ??? thanx for the info. arpanlib Link to comment
harbingerofthefish Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I would ditch the UGF and use a sand bed and some LR instead. It will obviously cost more but, It will look better, provide more places for fish to swim/hide/etc..., provide biological filtration that a UGF just can't. Link to comment
arpanlib Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 hi, thanx for the help. if i use a sand bed, how do i clean the bed as it will attract debris and other bad stuff over a peroid of time ?? arpanlib Link to comment
onthefly Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Tell your friend to get a Dragon Goby (a.k.a Banded Goby). They are machines! I have never had to vaccum my tank in 5 years. The surface always stays white, even in an algae bloom. Avoid some of the other gobies, such as gold headed sleeper and diamond, they don't seem to be as hardy as the dragon. Besides, the dragon is one of the best looking fish in my tank. Also, Like HOTF said.....you get a better filtration system from LR/LS. It does cost more, but your tank looks better and your options are greater: DSB, plenum, sand type and color, etc. With a RFUGF you must get the big chunky coral. I personally have used both the RFUGF and the LR/LS/DSB/plenum.....and the tank is much more stable with the LR/LS. Link to comment
FSUreef Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I know many of your "reef purists" may not agree, but if your friend is new in the hobby, he'll most likely want to load the tank up with fish. If this is the case, or even if he is experienced in the hobby, I would still recommend biting the bullet and buying a wet/dry filter. After the inital purchase, they're extremely inexpensive and highly efficient. If the tank ends up going completely reef, he can cut down on bio-media and still have a sump for protien skimmers, etc. A big problem with the set-up you're suggesting is a matter of aeration. Salt water does not hold the same oxygen-holding properties that freshwater does. Canister filters do very little to promote oxygenation of the water. Further, my experience with Canister filters has been this: They're big, underpowered, and messy. I had a Fluval 404 on a FW planted tank and I never broke it down for cleaning without dumping water all over the floor. With freshwater, it's an inconvenience, with saltwater, it would be a gigantic pain in the rear. If your buddy still wants to go with a canister filter, I would highly recommend buying an Eheim. The pumps are definately more powerful and the overall design of the filter is superior to everything else out there. Just my promotion of wet/drys and rant on canister filters... Hunter Link to comment
arpanlib Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 hi, thanx for the info. o.k. i shall recommend him a wet dry filter if he is planning to buy a new filter. he has a eheim canister filter and would like to use that one instead of buying a new one. as for aeration, he can add an extra airstone for the oxygen levels. will this help? i think so it should. kindly advise. as for other stuff, he has a problem of nitrates also. the tap water has nitrates at 12.5 mg / L. the nitrates will eventually biuld in the tank. so what should he use to control the nitrates? arpanlib Link to comment
onthefly Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 FSU is going to give me flashbacks!!! After all the therapy and support groups.....I had forgotten what a biatch my fluvals were. That was the main reason I took the guts outta them and just run them as "Huge, 15lb, PH's" now. As for aeration, why not set up a spray bar or rather than dumping cash into an eheim (which are the best by far!), buy a good skimmer? With a heavy fish load, you'll need to extract the organic beofre they turn into 'trates. As an add bonus, you get boo koo oxygenation from them (especially if you modifiy with a wood air stone). Link to comment
arpanlib Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 hi, should he install the skimmer from the day one ??? or wait till the tank cycles ? as for my experience, i have never seen the skimmer take out the crap !!! does it take out the foam all the time, or only when the tank is loaded with stuff ? i mean, i do water changes, so is it that's why the skimmer doesnot pull out anything or is it that i have not used it for long enough. ( i used it for a week and saw nothing coming out so i removed it. i do w/c every 14 days.) can anyone explain how to construct a plenum and how to go about it. any site or anything ? arent they suppose to be like undergravel filter ? plans to keep 4 - 5 fish and he is also planning to keep some zoo's and stuff. would it be a good idea or not ? arpanlib Link to comment
arpanlib Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 onthefly, are these the blue banded gobies ? i surfed the net but could not find anything like dragon goby !!! i would be grateful if you posted a pic of it or shared some related site. arpanlib Link to comment
onthefly Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Check out anchofish! http://www.anchofish.com/gobies/goby_dragon.htm I've seen them listed as "banded gobies", but the scientific name is the same! They are absolute sifting machines and will readily take flake and frozen!! Also, make sure your rock is very stable. They will undermine it easily! Link to comment
onthefly Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Sorry about that! Ok! Skimmers sometimes take a few days before they really start to pull crud out. Sometimes I'll get a cup full every week and other times I won't get any for a few days. Regardless, you have to keep you PH clean, especially the air intakes!! The fact that you do w/c so frequently, definitely helps to reduce your organics. Since it is every 14days, you will have some organics breakdown and enter the nitrogen cycle. Skimming DOES NOT remove NH3, NO2, or NO3, but will remove the organics that breakdown into these molecules. Another skimming perk is, if you use a surface skimmer, it keeps the surface crystal clear (no scum). If you're using uncured LR to start your tank, a skimmer will greatly help the cycling and help to reduce any nasty odor. Plenums and UGF are totally different monsters!!! UGF require aerobic condition, while plenums utilize hypoxic (reduced oxygen) conditions. UGF will only habor bacteria that reduce NH3 to NO3. However a plenum/DSB will provide a niche for anerobic bacteria who use NO3 to get their O2, and give off N2 gas, resulting in no build up of NO3. As for building one, you need: 1) zip ties or cable ties 2) 3/4" to 1"PVC piping 3) window screen 4) fine mesh screen 5) and finally some plastic grating (like you see in light fixtues). First, cut the grate to fit you tanks bottom (leave an inch on 2 sides...tank is 12x48.....make it 11x47). Then, cover it with the fine screen attaching it with zip ties. Next cut the PVC into appropriate sizes (usually 4-7") and zip them on the underside of the screened grate making sure to evenly support the grate: "See Below" Next take some window screen and cut it slightly bigger than the tank(if the tank is 12x48.....cut 15x50) and zip tie it to only one of the sides of the plenum. That is for construction! Now place it in the tank and lift the window screen up. place 2-3" of sand down, then cover it with the window screen (this keeps your goby from digging down and disrupting the plenum). Tuck the ends in and cover the whole thing with atleast another 2" of sand. And You DONE! As for stocking, as long as his water parameters are all in check, he can keep what ever he wants (within reason! ) Hope that helps! Link to comment
LiQuiD Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 arpanlib, what kind of filtration are you using in your 180 gallon? If it has been working for you why did you not suggest the same for your friend? Are you going to be maintaining it, as your second post leads me to believe, or is it one of those "my friend wants to know" things. Link to comment
arpanlib Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 onthefly, thanx a ton for the information. LiQuiD, its a friend of mine who wants to start with a new tank and wants to do a refined research before making decisions. yes, i will be helping him out for the tank setup etc, but he insisted on putting a question on this forum for more and more advise. his computer is down, so he has asked me to do research for him. the only thing that we share is the water source which has nitrates. 12.5 mg / l i have the plenum as onthefly has explained. i got this design from garf, but do appreciate onthefly explaining it to me again, coz the perviously setup was a bit different. but how does one clean the plenum and how does the water flow through it ? if there is no circulation of water, the water that is there in the plenum will only get free trates and stuff, but how will the new water entre to be deprived of the 'trates ? arpanlib Link to comment
FSUreef Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Onthefly: So, what you're saying is, all those bubbles in a protien skimmer AERATE the water???? Sometimes I wonder if I'm retarded. Good call. Link to comment
onthefly Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Don't we all have those episodes:blush: .........take your pills! I know some peeps say surface area is more important than skimmer bubbles in gas exchange......and they may be right on a grand scale. However, I have a tall tank with decrease surface area and so I feel that all those "tiny bubbles........." (sorry for the cheesy Don Ho reference) have to help!!!! Arpanlib - You don't clean the plenum!!!! You don't want to disrupt it or ever see it!!! Hopefully you'll see "tiny bubbles..........." (Damn I did it again........got go to Hawaii!) coming up from the plenum, but you may not see anything. That doesn't mean it isn't working!! As for water flow......the hypoxic environment requires no flow!! You just want NO3 to enter the plenum via diffusion and the bugs will use it. If free flowing water enters the plenum, you'll loose its denitrifaction properties. Hasta BTW I had a fluval nightmare last night!!! "Where's that therapist's number" Link to comment
arpanlib Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 hi, thanx for the reply. as you state that the situation will become anerobic, wont the sand bed turn brown or dark for that matter ? i think that this does happen when these conditions arrive. arpanlib Link to comment
arpanlib Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 hi, just want to metion : BUGS what are they. are they the amphipods in the substrate and the bristle worms etc. if something else, where can i see pics of these bugs. arpanlib Link to comment
onthefly Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 It's not anaerobic! Must people say this, but that means "devoid of oxygen". That's not the case.......it is hypoxic (very little oxygen). I've seen some DSB that got funky looking, but mine looks like regular 'ol sand! I think if you put miricale mud or some of the other types of substrate, it might change color. I get some algae growing under the surface, but that because of the glass tank and a small amount of sun that hit that corner of my tank. Sorry about the "bugs" reference! I'm a Virologist and we (most of the science community) refer to bacteria as "bugs"!!!! Link to comment
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