Let your conscience be your guide...................

[The Propagator]

1st, I sell coral on Ebay too, and I am not slamming this fella in anyway.

I just think its only right to air out certain facts before they get out of hand.

I have no doubt this seller did NOT make this piece up himself but instead purchased it exactly like you see it from his wholesaler.

Be aware though when you see pieces like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/HYPNOTIC-MULIT-COLONIE...1QQcmdZViewItem

up for auction THE COLLECTION STATION DID IT.

Here's why:

They glue colonies together on large rocks to fool customs and fish and game.

Why do they "need" to do that?

Because there are regulations in place that govern the numbers of colonies collected of Blastomussa Welsi.

This means that only a certain number can be harvested per year or season.

They sell them as one large colony on paper, and when who ever checks it out sees what looks like one colon.

 

They do this because Blastomussa welsi is one of the most popular LPS species available aside from acans and micro's. If they continue to collect in this manner they will effectively be doubling the legal limit allowed and will surely put a HUGE dent in the wild population in what ever areas they are collected from ( wich are also "suposedly" watched over by special agencies. HA !).

Once the "real" authorities catch on the rules will become even more stringent. Probably to the point of not allowing their collection at all. (HELLO FLORIDA !)

Is it realy worth it for a couple extra bucks?

This seems like small potatoes now, but mark my words there will be a reckoning one day soon if the collection stations keep it up, and a whole new set of rules will be put in place.

You think its hard getting certain corals now? ( Acans Micros....ect ect...)

What do you think its going to be like if they tighten up the reigns?

 

You want my advice, dont buy pieces like that and you wont fuel the fire.

Buy the typical small colonies.

Complain to your LFS if you see these peices in thier tanks.

 

Call me analretentive fellas but I smell some thing bad in this wake.

[Six]

also, they always always seem to sting eachother and die off in some way. These conglomerate rocks arent good for the coral and as Prop states, aren't good for the hobby. Expecially ones with aggressive acathastrea right next to fungiids, tubastrea, b. wellsi, and even rare mussids.

[Riona]

Also, there was a BIG thing a while back on RC where that seller was caught. well. He was bashed a lot.

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...hreadid=1019556 There's a lot of crap in there, but at a few points he's been caught selling stuff on his website the same time he has it on ebay auction, and claiming a friend is doing it, he's accused at least of photoshopping etc. Following my conscience be my guide that he's not a good person >_>

[The Propagator]

Wow I had no idea about that.

I honestly didnt. I didnt even mean to make it seem as if he was a bad person or anything. I just wantted people to know what this sort of thing could lead to if Collection stations keep it up.

[mvite]

Thanks for the heads up about that. I wouldn't have ever known. I would have thought the seller did it.

 

As I make my way higher up the food chain with coral sellers and suppliers,(wholesalers and retailers alike), I am continually shocked at the YUCKY factor. You were right, Prop!

 

The World of "Coral Sales" has a seedy underbelly----It's kinda like Scarface only instead of cocaine, it's coral!!

[icenine]

Thanks for posting this prop.

 

I have a blasto rock that was likely put together in this fashion. Here is a side shot that shows it's "construction".

 

 

Now, I never questioned that the rock was "put together" that was always plain as day, there is no mistaking this for a natural formation.

In fact I even added to it myself after I got it.

 

What I did not know, was that it was likely done to avoid collection laws rather than to just make a more attractive piece.

 

I should point out the example I have did not come from the seller that has been mentioned here. ...but I'm betting the seller is not aware of the issue either.

I have over that past year however seen hundreds of rocks like it from many, many sellers. ..and most of those sellers had no idea either.

 

Had I known I would not have bought it.

Now that I do I'll make sure I mention it to anyone I see offering such a rock again.

 

Can I ask how had you come accross this information?

[lgreen]

I may or may not own a blasto combo rock that I got in at my LFS. I promise I didn't know. I thought it was stupid some idiot glued like 4 different morphs to a single rock though. I took a pair of bone cutters and cut it into 4 different pieces. Now I know and wont do it again.

 

Mine was "assembled" pretty much the same as icenine's.

[travisurfer]

this is so sad. every coral i have was a frag with the exception of a smallish mushroom colony which doesn't aid in reef building. seriously though, there should be enough blastos in the hobby that people shouldn't have to sell "combo rocks".

[sephroth_r1]

GAH! that is just wrong on many levels. I wish people had more common sense than that, but that would be asking too much of the human population.

[Six]

There are strict laws concerning many uncommon species like blastomussa. to go around the laws they sell "1" "combo rock" which is really 3-8 corals glued together. so if they are only allowed to ship out "x" wellsi, they get around it by 1- not calling it what it is and 2- glueing them to make "1".

 

Many micromussa are imported this way too. That's why there are only select individuals who can get them. They have a person willing to use the loophole. Also, collecting and shipping to another island and then shipping from there as the colection point has been practiced as well. As far as how you find this out, it's word of mouth through distributors and it trickles down. If you know people you get to know things.

 

I'm pretty sure many a lordhowensis were imported from japan this way as well as under the name "favia" instead.

[icenine]

The funny thing though is that I really do see these "combo" blasto rocks a lot ...I would think that word of mouth would have set a bigger fire under them. I knew they were being slapped together by someone, the reason is just more sinister than I imagined.

...now, keep in mind I don't doubt this at all. Makes total sense and is totally in line with other things I've seen in my short time in the hobby.

 

It would be nice to reference at least one source besides pro (no offence man) even in casual conversation of the subject.

[sephroth_r1]

There are strict laws concerning many uncommon species like blastomussa. to go around the laws they sell "1" "combo rock" which is really 3-8 corals glued together. so if they are only allowed to ship out "x" wellsi, they get around it by 1- not calling it what it is and 2- glueing them to make "1".

 

Many micromussa are imported this way too. That's why there are only select individuals who can get them. They have a person willing to use the loophole. Also, collecting and shipping to another island and then shipping from there as the colection point has been practiced as well. As far as how you find this out, it's word of mouth through distributors and it trickles down. If you know people you get to know things.

 

I'm pretty sure many a lordhowensis were imported from japan this way as well as under the name "favia" instead.

 

Evils we cannot avoid. Its business being business. Nothing more, nothing less than how it has always done things

[icenine]

Evils we cannot avoid. Its business being business. Nothing more, nothing less than how it has always done things

 

 

But pin them/it down and eliminate what you can when you can... or at least try to.

This hobby is so new and is encountering new territory all the time. Making information known to us, the end user is a really big part of making changes to the wholesale side.

This is a small hobby, growing by the day... but really still small in contrast to other things.

End users in the reef hobby can have a signifigant impact IMO. Mostly because this IS such a small hobby now. ...the more it grows the more out of hand it can become.

 

Picture it like weeding trolls of of a message board.. takes time, but gets done in the end.

 

[Six]

ummm... there isnt much proof. thats the point.

 

buyer beware or buyer dont care.

 

[mvite]

It would haveta be a lot less than $249 to tempt me.

[sephroth_r1]

ummm... there isnt much proof. thats the point.

 

buyer beware or buyer dont care.

 

 

Exactly, and there are people in the hobby that dont care... But I agree, that the ones w ho do care, can try and make a stand, but as the song goes...

 

money walks...

[icenine]

ummm... there isnt much proof. thats the point.

 

So, then how do you know it's true and not just the internet ramblings of sellers that don't much like each other?

Just saying.

[Riona]

Well, for one THAT particular seller has been accused of way shady practises. Like having his "buddy" selling corals on ebay while he's got them WSYWIG'd on his site, and for completely different prices, under completely false names. While photoshopping colours. . .

[icenine]

Oh, I saw the ####### match on RC but that's not the issue prop raised.

I bought the rock I posted from another seller I consider reputable.

 

...and to be clear I'm not making any comment regarding prop at all.

I would just be intersting to see the source. Otherwise it could be dismissed as rumor.

[proraptor2]

There are tons of piece like those floating around in socal fish stores...I see them all the time

[Six]

you never see blasto wellsi and then you see tons of them glued to a rock. that doesnt make you wonder?

[icenine]

you never see blasto wellsi and then you see tons of them glued to a rock. that doesnt make you wonder?

 

[The Propagator]

ice,

I Can and will tell you my source's of information......

 

Joel of Aquariums Ecetera in Franklin Ohio, Joe of marine solutions inc. in Wayensville Ohio, Scott of Just Coral in Carlise Ohio, and every live fish store owner I have met and befreinded for the past 15 years

 

All of the persons I mentioned above are owner operators and do the ordering them selves Marine solutions is online, as well as Just Coral.

Aquariums Ecetera is to I think?

 

Its like this,

Say they order 8 peices of blasomussa wellsi.

Thier supplier sends them two rocks with 4 mounted on it instead of 8 seperate peices.

That way thier supplier is only down as having sent two pieces in stead of 8 on the books there by circumventing the laws in place for thier collection.

"Most" Corals are distributed from transhippers on the west coast that enter this country. The transhippers know danm well whats going on because they are in direct contact with the collection stations, but the LFS owner who buys from the transhipper hasnt got a clue until he /she gets it.

The LFS owners dont even know about it at all until they get it because they are being charged for 8 pieces on paper here in the states before they get it or even see it. The transhipper however is being charged for 2 peices on paper but actualy pays for 8 via an inflated rate for each piece. ( I am sure at a slight discount though to keep quiet.)

 

 

 

Mark,

I told ya homey. you have to be VERY carefull who you trust in this business. It is cut throat like pirates of the caribbean baby.

Thats why I warn you about certain people.

If every seller, including up and commers such as our selves would stick together we could all make money hand over fist and ensure that there would be more than enough of certain species to go around.

But greed will take hold every time and one azz hole will F' it up for the masses every time.

That azz hole starts a trend, then the rest think " hey I can do that to" then it all comes topling down.