HotRodScamp Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 I ordered some goodies today!! From Digital Aquatics I ordered the Reefkeeper 2, pH probe kit and data logger splitter with shipping for $335.00 From eBay seller "filterdirect" I ordered the 110GPD RO +2DI system, Dual inline TDS meter DM-2, pressure gauge #732, 4 gallon pressure tank kit #532 and a garden hose adapter with shipping for a total of $230.95 Next will be the cabinets and supplies for my DIY sink/stand project. On a related note, my partner in crime came home from the thrift store today with a Kenmore drinking water filter. She's watched me shopping RO systems for a while now so this caught her eye. And for $6.99, why would she pass it up? My thought is that once I set up my RO/DI system, if I'm not happy with the final output, I can put some cartridges in this and use it inline either before or after the RO/DI. Any ideas on what cartridges to use and should I use it before or after the RO/DI? I've seen filters for chlorine/chloramine, so maybe if I filter for that before the RO/DI it will help the life of my RO membrane? So in 22 days I've managed to relieve myself of a precious $1181.50 I'm keeping score so I can justify it with rationalizations such as "it's cheaper that a therapist" or "I could have spent that money on beer". The tank looks great today. The crew continues it's constant activity, keeping lots of junk constantly swirling in the current and the water is still crystal clear, almost invisible. I got one scarlet red leg in my cleanup crew who lives in some sort of pointy conch shell that's always falling over and getting stuck. We've flipped him a few times, and we've seen him get righted by an encounter with a passing turbo snail or blue leg a few times. This can't keep up! We've provided a selection of empty shells around the tank so he might choose one a little easier to drag around, but he hasn't. I hope the little guy manages. I should have lots to post this week when I receive my orders in the mail and start collecting the supplies for my stand. Stay tuned... - Mike Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 So I let the tank go the last 3 days without any testing. Here's how things stack up on day 24: Temp 78 SG 1.026 pH 8.0 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0 Alkalinity 2.5 mEq/l 7 dKh Parameters have been incredibly stable I think. The cleanup crew remains hard at work kickin' up a ton 'o dust. All the junk from this continues to settle on the sand so I'll probably vac the sand again soon. I expect to get my RO/DI in the mail this week, and hopefully my ReefKeeper 2 will get here as well! I am very excited to get moving on my DIY stand. The Aquapod stand is as bad as everyone says. The top swelled so much it interfered with the door until one of the hinges broke. That $65 stand lasted almost 3 weeks! Even though I already bought my RO/DI system from filterdirect on eBay, I continue to read the threads debating the relative merits and benefits of the various RO systems out there. I plan to document the setup as well as I can and share my experiences here. I am really itching to add to this tank already! I am just hoping that the RO system, the ReefKepper 2 and my DIY stand will keep me occupied for a while so I won't be so inclined to buy livestock! By the time those projects are finished the tank should be at least 5 to 6 weeks old. Still a little soon, but we'll see just how long I can contain myself Project photos coming soon... Stay tuned... - Mike Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 Yesterday was an interesting tank day. In the morning we found what looked like a dead blue leg hermit, but after finding and counting all six blue legs we bought, I has to be a molt. Strange though, I examined the find pretty closely and it looked like a crab, not just a shell. So we decided to go browse the LFS. I picked up a Salifert Ca test kit, a bottle of Purple-Up (opinions?) and some supplemental cleanup crew. A mere $47.95. 2 scarlet red leg hermits 2 mexican red leg hermits 4 nassarius snails We added the new crew members without a hitch. The nassarius all dug immediately into the sand, the scarlets didn't move from where they landed and just started munching away, and the mexican reds started roaming/eating right away. I think I've got a fairly heavy and diverse crew now, but I think I may add more nassarius later. This morning we found two more crabs, one blue, one scarlet. All three scarlets were in plain sight, and the original one now has very striking color. So after seeing 3 molts in 2 days, I'm thinking very positively about the tank conditions. Next I did a test with the Salifert Ca kit. It's like a damn science project The test result came out at around 280ppm. Awfully low? So I tested pH and alkalinity next. pH 8.0 alk 2.5 mEq/l 7 dKh also seems low. This is still my weak area, pH/Alk/Ca. I have a lot to learn. I dosed with Purple-Up at the recommended amount (1.25ml). I have read a couple of the articles I've seen linked from here, and I must say I'm a bit overwhelmed. I understand that it's not supposed to be much of an issue for my tank since I'm not planning SPS or anything with high Ca requirements and I do water changes at a minimum of weekly, but I want to learn what I can about it for future tanks I have not received shipping confirmation from Digital Aquatics for my ReefKeeper 2 or from Filter Direct for my RO/DI. I'm so anxious I can hardly stand it! I may go out to pick up my cabinets today. While we were at the LFS yesterday, I mentioned what happened to my stand and the owner told me to bring it back for credit when I get my new stand set up. YAY! She'll probably give me store credit, but that will make me very happy since I had already considered it a loss. So the added $47.95 yesterday brings my total now to $1227.45 and I'm already wondering if I'll have room in my new cabinet to set up an ATO system. Could I really spend as much on a 12 gallon fish tank as, say, a new motorcycle? Scary thought. Project photos coming soon... - Mike Link to comment
seahorsejl Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Sounds like you are making good progress on the tank. That is odd that you haven't gotten a shipping notice from FilterDirect yet. I purchased one of the RO/DI units on 2/11, paid on 2/11, got a receipt on 2/12 and a shipping notice on 2/12 from them. Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share Posted March 15, 2007 Sounds like you are making good progress on the tank. That is odd that you haven't gotten a shipping notice from FilterDirect yet. I purchased one of the RO/DI units on 2/11, paid on 2/11, got a receipt on 2/12 and a shipping notice on 2/12 from them. Thanks! I'm very happy with the tank so far. It's been just under a month, and it seems like much longer Tomorrow I'll follow up with both FilterDirect and with Digital Aquatics to see what I can find out about my stuff getting shipped. I'm very anxious to get this stuff now because... I started my tank stand project today! I went to the local home improvement store and purchased my cabinet bases, counter top, sink and misc. supplies. All for $148.27 And since I'm keeping a running total, It's up to $1375.72 or about $115/gallon. Still cheaper than, say, bars of platinum. The utility cabinets: The counter top: Marked out the sink hole: Sink installed: Cabinets assembled, fitting top: Main assembly complete: Opened up to show all the space: Tomorrow I'll finish the assembly. It needs molding around the counter top, the two base cabinets bolted together and then I'll be ready to place it and adjust the door hinges. More photos tomorrow! - Mike Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share Posted March 15, 2007 I finished what I could on the stand today. I added a molding to the top and bolted the two cabinets together. Not really photo-worthy I'll continue on the stand once I get my RO/DI and ReefKeeper 2 in. Todays water tests: Temp 79 SG 1.025 pH 8.0 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0 Alkalinity 2.25 mEq/l 6.3 dKh Calcium 200ppm Alkalinity dropped again, and calcium went from 280ppm down to 200ppm after dosing Purple-Up?!? I hesitate to dose for correction, but these numbers seem awfully, awfully low. I added a teaspoon of SeaBuffer and 2ml of Purple-Up. I'll test again tomorrow to see how it's effected. - Mike Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 I got a tracking number from FilterDirect last night, my RO/DI will be here today! I also got a response from Digital Aquatics; backordered. UGHHH! They say they should be caught up with orders by the 26th or March. So I guess I can expect mine by the end of the month. When the filter shows up I'll start mounting it in my cabinet and post photos later this evening. - Mike Link to comment
seahorsejl Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Awesome ... I am looking forward to seeing the final product of this ... I like the idea of having the water so close. Though now that I have a mud room in our new house, I have taken that over with my RO/DI unit and 5 gallon bucket to pre-mix and heat water. Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Got the RO/DI from FilterDirect today! Pics so far: Still in the box: All the accessories: Set in the cabinet to check for fit: Started mounting the unit: Now it's time for a trip to the hardware store. I need a roll of 1/4" tubing to run from the stand to the water supply, some u-clamps to hold the tubing in place, teflon tape to hopefully avoid leaks and a garden hose Y-adapter for the water feed. Now I have to make a few plumbing decisions before I finish. The first is where I want to install the pressure gauge. I think the pressure I want to know is the input pressure, so I would install the gauge into the feed line. The second is where I want the in and out TDS probes. I really want to know the TDS in four places, input water, pre-RO, post-RO and output. Maybe I should just buy a second dual meter? One for input/output, and one for pre/post-RO. For now I think I'll simply install it for input/output. And finally I have to decide if I want the tank to fill with RO or RO/DI. I am thinking of feeding the faucet from the tank with RO and having an RO/DI feed under the cabinet to make tank water as needed (into a bucket I guess). I'd love to hear your opinions on this. My initial impression of FilterDirect is neither great nor terrible. I didn't get any shipping notification until I emailed to ask for it. But it was shipped promptly. I ordered it on Saturday 3/10 and it arrived today, Friday 3/16. The membrane flush valve that was listed as part of the package is not there. I will email FilterDirect to let them know and I expect they'll send it promptly, we'll see. Otherwise the equipment looks fantastic! This is a lot of filter for $228! The included installation equipment and supplies seem very complete, generous even. All things considered, I think I bought the right unit. Now to get it running and see the real results. - Mike Link to comment
seahorsejl Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Now I have to make a few plumbing decisions before I finish. The first is where I want to install the pressure gauge. I think the pressure I want to know is the input pressure, so I would install the gauge into the feed line. The second is where I want the in and out TDS probes. I really want to know the TDS in four places, input water, pre-RO, post-RO and output. Maybe I should just buy a second dual meter? One for input/output, and one for pre/post-RO. For now I think I'll simply install it for input/output. And finally I have to decide if I want the tank to fill with RO or RO/DI. I am thinking of feeding the faucet from the tank with RO and having an RO/DI feed under the cabinet to make tank water as needed (into a bucket I guess). I'd love to hear your opinions on this. Wow.. you got the deluxe model I got the same one actually, minus the digital TDS meter. I bought a separate hand-held one. As far as filling the tank .... I am not sure if you have much choice. By default it is RO water that is stored in the tank. It does go through the DI filter until you use that output. If you use the included "faucet" fixture, that just runs the water another carbon filter ... so the water is just RO still at that point. That might actually make it easier to decide on the meter locations even. I would think you would really only be concerned on the input water and whatever output you will use more. I frankly always use the DI output for the tank. I have the faucet hooked up, but it is just laying next to the unit. I have only used it to prime the system and remove air from that path. Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 17, 2007 Author Share Posted March 17, 2007 Wow.. you got the deluxe model I got the same one actually, minus the digital TDS meter. I bought a separate hand-held one. I bought the system without the tank, then bought the tank seperately. The system advertised with the tank has white canisters and I wanted to be sure to get the clear canisters, I also didn't need a faucet because I already had one. and most of all I wanted the second DI stage rather than the inline carbon filter to the faucet. As far as filling the tank .... I am not sure if you have much choice. By default it is RO water that is stored in the tank. It does go through the DI filter until you use that output. If you use the included "faucet" fixture, that just runs the water another carbon filter ... so the water is just RO still at that point. I ended up running the storage tank off a 'T' in the main output line from the second DI cartidge, with the other end running to the faucet. So my only supply is the faucet, and it's RO/DI. That's fine for now, but I think I'm going to build an auto top off system, which will probably change the plumbing a little. That might actually make it easier to decide on the meter locations even. I would think you would really only be concerned on the input water and whatever output you will use more. I frankly always use the DI output for the tank. I have the faucet hooked up, but it is just laying next to the unit. I have only used it to prime the system and remove air from that path. I decided the best thing would be to set up the meter on input and final output. Down the line I may add another dual meter and set that one up before and after the membrane. I got most of the plumbing done and leak tested. I have a drip at one 'T' connector (the one going to the faucet and tank), and one just below the faucet. I'll tighten thos up before I move the stand into place. I secured the top to the cabinets with some 'L' brackets. I'll get it in place and the tank put on it tomorrow. Front view: TDS meter / input pressure: View from the back: The sink finished: The top w/moldings: Front view: More updates tomorrow... - Mike Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 17, 2007 Author Share Posted March 17, 2007 Sealed the two leaks and got the stand placed! More to come! - Mike Link to comment
Sea Slug Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Nice clean job Mike , mine is coming Monday , do you have a photo of the garden hose connection ? I am aslo hooking mine up that way via the washing machine cold water supply . John Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 17, 2007 Author Share Posted March 17, 2007 Nice clean job Mike , mine is coming Monday , do you have a photo of the garden hose connection ? I am aslo hooking mine up that way via the washing machine cold water supply . John Thanks, John! The garden hose connection I got was a simple 1/4" compression fitting: And I connected that to a 'Y' splitter from the hardware store: I installed a pressure gauge on the input side of the filter and my input pressure runs about 50lbs. I ran the washing machine and it dropped to about 40lbs. So I think I'll be fine with water pressure. Hope the pics help! - Mike Link to comment
Sea Slug Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Mike , the pictures were exactly what I was looking for , wasn't sure if the hose connection was push in on the 1/4 inch hose end . Thanks ! Also glad to hear you are happy with the quality of water your getting . Alot of conflicting replys about these cheaper RO/DI units . To me they use standard size membrains and if your not happy with the one it came with IMO you could always buy a more exspensive one or different brand of filter , when it comes time to change it . At least thats why I went with this model . Thanks Again ! John Link to comment
Gerber77 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Very nice job, clean and looks excellant. Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 17, 2007 Author Share Posted March 17, 2007 Mike , the pictures were exactly what I was looking for , wasn't sure if the hose connection was push in on the 1/4 inch hose end . Thanks ! Also glad to hear you are happy with the quality of water your getting . Alot of conflicting replys about these cheaper RO/DI units . To me they use standard size membrains and if your not happy with the one it came with IMO you could always buy a more exspensive one or different brand of filter , when it comes time to change it . At least thats why I went with this model . Thanks Again ! John Glad the pics helped. I followed the debates on the "low-end" RO/DI systems for quite a while before I purchased. You are exactly right, no matter what filter you buy you will eventually replace the membrane and cartridges. I think with this system, you get the most hardware for your buck. To replace all the cartridges and media from FilterDirect is about $83. The cartridges and media from TheFilterGuys is about $79. Then airwaterice is about $62. If you want to fill this thing with SpectraPure products it runs about $125. In any case, what you're paying for is the cartridges. If I subtract the cost of replacement filters ($83), the TDS meter ($42) and the pressure gauge ($13) from the cost of my system ($228) it cost right about $90. For that I got a 3 - 10" canister frame, 3 10" canisters, 10" RO canister, 2 clear refillable DI resin cartridges, 4 gallon pressure tank, and all the valves, fittings, hose needed to get it running. I couldn't find a single system that compared to that price component for component. I plan to monitor the performance of the cartridges very closely so I can make an informed decision when it's time to replace them. So far i have only taken TDS readings from the input water (~160ppm) and the output water (0ppm). I plan to take readings pre-RO and pre-DI which will indicate the performance of the membrane and the expected consumption rate of DI resin. I'll be sure to update this thread regularly with my results. - Mike Link to comment
Sea Slug Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Sounds good Mike , I'll be watching the thread for the results . Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 17, 2007 Author Share Posted March 17, 2007 Very nice job, clean and looks excellant. Thanks so much! I am really happy with the progress so far. My next project is to plumb my feed and drain lines to the final location and the RO/DI sink is complete! The next project will be the ReefKeeper 2 system which I should have by the end of the month. I still have some modding projects on my mind too. I want to build the "cassette skimmer" from the DIY forum, for one. Stay tuned! - Mike Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share Posted March 18, 2007 With my new stand in place and the tank moved, I'm really lovin' this! I still have to finish running my water and drain to the RO system before it's functional. Work will be getting in the way a bit this week . I think it may be time for the cassette skimmer mod. I have had an ever-so-slight film on the surface since I set up the tank. When the Hydor Flo turns to the surface, it breaks it up very well, but it returns as soon as the Flo turns down. Yesterday I took a cassette case and blocked the middle set of inlet slots into chamber one. The flow over the top increased dramatically and the surface was crystal clear in a matter of minutes. It also seemed to raise the water level in the display side. There is another set of slots toward the bottom that are below the level of the sand bed. I guess I can explain better with a diagram. Since I took out the sponge 10 days ago, this is how the chambers are set up now (front view): I want the ceramic media and the bio-balls out. First I am going to cover the bottom set of horizontal inlets in chamber one. I cut the fronts off two cassette cases to fit. I am going to super glue one inside the chamber to cover the bottom vents. Once the flow settles in, I'll cover the upper set of horizontal inlets the same way. I think that may be enough to make the vertical slots at the top effective enough to keep scum off the water surface. If not, I'll go with the other side of the cassette case installed in front of the vertical slots. Then I need to decide how I want to fill the chambers for the long-haul. I would really like to run a protein skimmer when someone (Sapphire Aquatics?) comes up with a skimmer for the AP12 that will run under the closed canopy. I'd also like to turn one chamber into a refugium and put a light on the back for some chaeto. So far my idea looks like this: I would love to get some input on this, since I'd like to have all this settled before I really start to populate the tank. Things must be going well in there, since we found another crab molt this morning. I'll run another set of water tests and probably do a water change tomorrow. - Mike EDIT: spelling Link to comment
Sea Slug Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Mike , I've had an original 12 gal. Nano Cube running for about five years now with a very simple setup , it is home to a single Blue Spot Jawfish about 3 inches long . Looking at your drawings I would recomend only a couple of changes . Ditch the Chemi Pure and replace it with Purgen . then switch the order , go Poly filter floss , Carbon , Purgen bag and live rock rubble . Change filter floss every week with water change ( that is why it's on top ) , Carbon every two weeks and recharge Purgen when it is no longer white . Depending on Bio load this would be about every six months . I cut a small piece of egg crate to fit in overflow chamber so it is a tight fit and put the filter floss on top , that way all water is run through floss before making its way through the rest of the media and chambers . I change one gallon a week and have held top water quality and Cal . Mag . & Alk. for years with out any supplements . HTH John Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share Posted March 18, 2007 Mike , I've had an original 12 gal. Nano Cube running for about five years now with a very simple setup , it is home to a single Blue Spot Jawfish about 3 inches long . Looking at your drawings I would recomend only a couple of changes . Ditch the Chemi Pure and replace it with Purgen . then switch the order , go Poly filter floss , Carbon , Purgen bag and live rock rubble . Change filter floss every week with water change ( that is why it's on top ) , Carbon every two weeks and recharge Purgen when it is no longer white . Depending on Bio load this would be about every six months . I cut a small piece of egg crate to fit in overflow chamber so it is a tight fit and put the filter floss on top , that way all water is run through floss before making its way through the rest of the media and chambers . I change one gallon a week and have held top water quality and Cal . Mag . & Alk. for years with out any supplements . HTH John Thanks for the tips! Floss on top makes great sense So here's what it's looking like now: I was hoping to use some kind of mineral mud in the bottom of the refugium area, but since the outlet is at the bottom of the chamber, I'm not sure how to keep it from just flowing out the bottom. - Mike Link to comment
Sea Slug Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Thats the system I use with weekly water changes , Try it I think you'll like it . John Link to comment
seahorsejl Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 The completed setup looks great! Link to comment
HotRodScamp Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 Thats the system I use with weekly water changes , Try it I think you'll like it . JohnI started monkeying with the chambers today. See below The completed setup looks great!Thanks! Just a few more things now I should get my ReefKeeper 2 soon, and I have to plumb my feed and drain lines to the RO unit. Then I'm thinking about building in an auto top off system. Today's update: SG 1.026 pH 8.0 alk 2.5 mEq/l 7 dKh Ca ~200ppm Alk/Ca are still low. I hate to get into a dosing routine, but I would like to see these numbers get up to an acceptable level. Until I decide on a solution I like, I'll just watch it. So I decided I would address the surface film today. I covered the two lower sets of intakes to chamber 1 with pieces of cassette case cover. I covered the lower intake first, and let it run a few minutes. It seemed to do very little to the flow pattern. Next I covered the middle intake and things started to change immediately. With all the flow now going through the overflow slots, the flow is very rapid and the suface of the water in chamber 1 is heavily agitated. Looks good so far so I decided to start changing the chambers around. First I removed the carbon bag, floss and Chemi-pure from the top of chamber 3, it was so full of crud it clouded the whole tank in an instant. Then I took the bag of ceramic rings out of chamber 2 and it was also full of gray crud. Next, I moved all the rock rubble to chamber 1, put the chemipure, then carbon, floss on top. I also took the bio balls out of chamber 3. I turned the pump back on and waited. All hell broke loose. About 10 seconds after turning the pump back on the water level in chamber 4 ran down to the top of the pump, then chamber 3 ran near dry then chamber 2. By that time, the display side was over-filled, spilling over the back wall into all 4 chambers as well as spilling over the front of the tank and on to the floor. I shut the pump off quickly and successfully ended Aquapod amrageddon. I removed everything but the rock, and ran the pump again, no flood, but the water levels were still low in the chambers. So I added a little fresh saltwater and the flow is just racing through the chambers. I added the chemipure bag to chamber 1 on top of the rock and flow slowed considerably in chambers 2-4. I added the carbon on top of that and the water level rose fast in chamber 1, so I pulled them both out again. I put both bags in chamber 2 and the flow leveled out again. So I added the floss on top of that, no good, the flow is coming up in chamber 2. I dropped it in chamber 3 and it got sucked through the bottom outlet into chamber 4. I put the bag of ceramic rings in chamber 3 and put the floss on top of that. This is how the chambers are configured now: Flow is OK now, but not great. I get a little noise from water going into chamber 1, and a little more from water spilling from chamber 2 to 3. I'm going to let it sit for a couple of days now to see how it settles in. It's been an hour since I turned the pump back on and the water is nearly clear and there is no film on the surface of the water at all. Work is keeping my tank-time to a minimum this week, but I really want to get the rest of my plumbing done and get my filter chambers setlled. I guess I'll start shopping for a refugium light now - Mike Link to comment
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