Painkillers for an injured fish?

[Caesar777]

Okay, so I have a gay question to ask. Whee!

 

I brought home a baby blue tang today. Dime-sized. He swam around the tank for a sec after acclimation, then hid in a zoo rock (branchy, so among the branches, not the zoos). The emerald crab was sitting in there--also small, dime-sized--and I watched it for a sec but it did nothing but sit there nibbling its mouthparts as it does all day, so I paid no mind. Went off to get some mice out of the freezer for my snakes, came back to find the crab clutching the tang, eating him! Long story short, got the tang away from the crab, put the tang in my in-tank fuge (low-flow and safe), killed the crab.

 

Now, I had also grabbed some cyclopeeze and offered a tiny bit to the tang. He ate it, despite his caudal fin being nibbled down to the muscle (little fin left, and some is spiked upward, bent or twisted), as well as some bites on his lower back. The stress is obviously enormous, and that alone might kill him. But he did eat.

 

Point is: obviously good water quality, good food quality, and feeding often are the tlc he needs. But is there any way I can dip him in some solution that would act as a painkiller? His wounds look very painful, poor thing.

 

Six, I'm looking in your direction, but anyone else feel free to note! Thanks!

[lgreen]

Well...I don't know that a fish "pain killer" exists. Differentiating the dosage between pain killer, anesthetic, and lethal injection for most anti-inflammatories, barbiturates, and sedatives for fish, is probably beyond the scope of even the advanced aquarist...probably even the seasoned vet, unless they specialize in fish.

 

Maybe some stress coat w/ aloe vera? Maybe an antibiotic/antifungal to help prevent infection?

 

Atlantic blue tangs are a pain in the arse as it is. Crab nibble-age doesn't help at all.

 

"killed the crab"

 

That's the spirit! Now eat a hamburger

 

good luck

[Caesar777]

He's a Pacific blue tang. Smaller than a dime, too. Like...um, a "people-eater"-type Palythoa polyp is bigger than he is. TINY! But regardless, yes, in my hippie-animal-loving style, I worried too much about the pain and forgot about the more important issue of preventing further damage via infection! So someone on ReefFrontiers suggested antibiotics to protect him from getting an infection, and while I posted the question there, too, my question is this: should I feed him antibiotics (soak food in it, either gel form or use water to liquefy contents of a capsule), dose him fully in a QT, or...? He did eat some food even minutes after the attack, having been placed in the fuge. Now, he does have some excessive sliming. Makes it look like he has a thin dorsal filament like a yasa hashe minus the fin-skin. Oversliming just par for the course?--due to the physical trauma, that area that was attacked is sliming up as a defense? Hey, I think I may have some stress-coat from the used tank I bought from someone...Came with a bunch of freshwater crap. ######....I think I threw it out with all the other freshwater crap. Will check.

 

My boss gave me (us) a candy gummy hamburger, pretty funny.

 

[matt510]

how much for the hot dog?

[Caesar777]

Ah, found a sample of "Aqueon" brand (new Central Pet line, apparently) "water conditioner"... "Makes tap water safe for fish..." (I use RO anyway) Then two bullets elaborate:

* Instantly neutralizes chlorine and chloramines in tap water.

* Aids in restoring a fish's natural slime coat

 

Okay, it says to add 5mL per 10 gallons. I'll add 10. (It's a 26 gallon tank, but I prefer to underdose because I've heard this sort of product can use up some oxygen, although I do have good circulation in the tank.)

[matt510]

so how much for the hot dog? interested thanks

[Caesar777]

Mixed it into a quart of water (my collection container/dosing container is about a quart, +/- 1/2 that) and poured it through the fuge. He turned translucent, his eyes bright silver with fear as he fluttered around. Took him a sec, but he's fine now. Should circulate throughout the tank, I guess. Now, what else? Would an ointment hurt him? I used to do reptiles and amphibians and you could use Neosporin on them, but fish have a slime coat, so it'd probably be retarded. Not to mention the delicate gills. ..........No?

 

Edit: For the hot fog? Four bucks.

 

Actually, that's just a photo I found online. (Figured I'd post a pic to further elaborate the funny situation.) I only got the burger, no hot dog or sandwich or anything. They're not vegetarian, anyway. They're made with gelatin, so it is like eating a burger, except one made from skin and hooves. The protein from them, that is.

[lgreen]

I would just leave it alone from this point on. Additional stress is just going to make anything else it's dealing with worse.

 

No touch. Eat ur burger.

[matt510]

whats shipping to 94803 on that burger, thanks

[Caesar777]

Well, since it's been such a cold winter, it'll need to go overnight; it'd be cruel to send it any other way. Will need heat and cold packs, of course, as well as dry ice, double-insulated in styros and crated and sent by airline only as per FDA and FHA regulations; looks like it'll end being $296.73 for the shipping/packing. But for the burger, which is a lot more rare of a morph, my asking price is $186.42, so plus shipping the total will be $483.15, if my calculations are correct. Do you have Paypal?

 

I'll leave the tang alone as far as no QT, but I will feed him antibiotics, if he'll eat it once it's turned his food into a foul-tasting goo. If he starts to get infected, though, I'll have to bring him back to work. Or...? .......freeze him?

[lgreen]

sounds good.

 

paypal sent.

[Caesar777]

Awesome. I'll be sure to include some bonus gummy-ketchup and gummy-pickle-slices as a thank-you.

 

"SHH! You had me at 'bucket'."

 

Omg he's eating Cyclopeeze like there's no tomorrow. That weird filament of slime is gone; his tail looks a little more normal, now, not so bent. Still missing lots of finnage, though. He should heal quickly; these guys grow quickly when they're so small. Good luck, little guy!

[ReefApprentice]

WoohoooO!!!!

[er1c_the_reefer]

a little bit of hydrocodone into the water...

[Caesar777]

Haha, I seriously considered it, but the acetaminophen that comprises the majority of the Vicodin pills could easily be overdosed and kill the animals' livers. Lgreen brought up an excellent point about dosage of medications, especially in regard to the minute difference between too little to be effective, just enough for therapeutic/medicinal purposes, and overdose leading to injury or death. I also wondered if opiates would even work on fish and other animals with such simple brains. That, and I hate opiates with a passion (used to love them, really), and I wouldn't wish the comedown upon that poor little fish. He seems to be relatively unaffected, emotionally, by the injury. I'm sure that, considering the numbers of young per adult and, thus, the numbers of injuries and mortality being so high among them, they must have some kind of "programming" to be able to, well, deal with it. Emotionally. Perhaps things aren't so complex in the mind of a fish, as far as "OUCH! I'm being eaten by a crab!", "I'm scared, I'm being grabbed, and now I'm in a new place", but along with that, learning quickly and being able to adapt. Thigns must change a lot in the lives of fish as they grow up, especially those with planktonic beginnings, like this guy, and so they surely must be able to deal well with changes, not only in surroundings, but in water quality (temp, salinity, pH, and for that matter, light and water flow and so on). If they were like me, so easily emotionally-stressed by every frightening situation, then they wouldn't be around today--they'd just die of stress and get culled out by evolution! Wow, the wonders of nature. I love my little gem. I think I'll give him a fruity name like Sapphire or Trooper. Or Sport. x2

[lgreen]

a little bit of hydrocodone into the water...

 

assuming fish have opioid receptors...

[Caesar777]

My thoughts exactly! Really, those Vicodin pills they gave me for the accident, which I'll NEVER use again (I'll have to be lying in a hospital and IV'd because nothing that can happen to me that would require outpatient pills would be worth the seratonin-DROP), were the FIRST thing to come to my mind, but as stated above, the complications and inadequacies are many, and the chances of success few. So, I'd skip it.

[Six]

Okay, so I have a gay question to ask. Whee!

 

I brought home a baby blue tang today. Dime-sized. He swam around the tank for a sec after acclimation, then hid in a zoo rock (branchy, so among the branches, not the zoos). The emerald crab was sitting in there--also small, dime-sized--and I watched it for a sec but it did nothing but sit there nibbling its mouthparts as it does all day, so I paid no mind. Went off to get some mice out of the freezer for my snakes, came back to find the crab clutching the tang, eating him! Long story short, got the tang away from the crab, put the tang in my in-tank fuge (low-flow and safe), killed the crab.

 

Now, I had also grabbed some cyclopeeze and offered a tiny bit to the tang. He ate it, despite his caudal fin being nibbled down to the muscle (little fin left, and some is spiked upward, bent or twisted), as well as some bites on his lower back. The stress is obviously enormous, and that alone might kill him. But he did eat.

 

Point is: obviously good water quality, good food quality, and feeding often are the tlc he needs. But is there any way I can dip him in some solution that would act as a painkiller? His wounds look very painful, poor thing.

 

Six, I'm looking in your direction, but anyone else feel free to note! Thanks!

 

Sup C7?

 

I wouldnt worry about the pain killer. The fish is eating and therefore isnt really in much stress/pain. I'd just make sure the water stays pristine so the lesion doesnt get infected. then you may want to QT. BUT..... if the fish is eating and I'm betting that you keep your tanks healthy, im sure the fish will heal up soon enough.

 

ohhh... and i only read like 4 posts on this thread..... sooo.... i did read about the "magic" water conditioner.... it's stress coat relabeled. it's got aloe in it or another oil from another terrestrial plants that if you have a skimmer on the tank will only take it out. I am fully against stress coat. there is no need for stress coat unless you handle fish... lol. like pick them up and rub the slime off. so, unless you are a fish molester, i doubt the product will do much more for the fish than regular dechlor.

 

YAY! DORI!

 

You know, I watched Ellen on Comedy Central tonight, and her stand up is funny as heck. I'll give her props.

[Caesar777]

Okay, day 2 and the baby's still alive. Fed him Cyclopeeze, and scratched the idea of stress-coat and antibiotics. Asked my boss and he said that even antibiotics in his food would stress him out (I know I feel horrible when I take those things), and that's a good point. For now he's fine, although a tiny bit lame (I hope his spine wasn't damaged), maybe just swimming funny because HE HAS NO TAIL FIN. I accidentally typed FUN there, first, but that too. NO TAIL FUN.

 

My other fish are enjoying all the feeding.

[bradarmi]

Time and good clean water are the things that will probably save it. I was going to post here yesterday, but got distracted by a phone call and forgot. I was going to caution you about the prophylactic use of antibiotics, but I think you figured it out for yourself. Of course, just making sure teh fish isn't stressed should help out a lot too. Good luck and thanks for thinking about it a little instead of just dumping some "magic elixicer" into the tank.

[Six]

I was going to caution you about the prophylactic use of antibiotic

 

I'm glad someone has the same views as me about that! We're not going to have medications for long if we abuse them.

[bradarmi]

I hear you Six.

For some reason, we Americans just assume the cure for everything can be found in a bottle marked Rx. I find it ironic how mad people get when the super-duper Rx bottle actually kills them...anyone remember Vioxx? I think people forget that antibiotics in particular kill bacteria, regardless of good or bad. It is very possible to kill all beneficial bacteria of a system with an over-zealous dose of tetracycline or penicillin.

[Caesar777]

Absolutely side with that. Sadly, I came home from work to find him almost completely eaten by the tiny dwarf six-legged brittle stars that live among the crevices in the rock. Great cleaner-uppers. ....Poor tang. I didn't really cry, but I am very saddened. He was a real trooper, though. He'll go on to be a giant butterfly or something. The King of butterflies, he won't get caught in a giant spiderweb or anything like that. He'll live until he's old and wise.

 

(How long to butterflies live? A few days or weeks? )

 

Oh well, I tried. Lesson learned: I'm the #1 crab-hater. I should have followed my own advice and not had that dumb emerald. I already got rid of my scarlets--brought them back to work--a few months ago. The snails, including those fantastic Nassarius vibex--sand-burrowing detritivores--do an excellent job cleaning. No need for crabs. Opportunistic bastards.

[MFish]

This is why I never reccommend emeralds. Poor little thing

[shiveley]

my fish are nothing but a bunch of aquatic-junkies...they're all hopped up on goofballs.

 

trust me, you don't want to get em' started on that route, once you got them hooked on painkillers you'll never get them to kick.

 

and fish rehab is really expensive, time-consuming, and very emotional for all involve.

 

...just say no.