new guy many questions

[offsprg01]

ok i'm new to the reef thing and i want to go slow so i don't kill anything. one of my pet peeves is having fish die. right now i keep a few fresh and many many brackish tanks. primarilary i keep wierdo fishes (oddballs). i have been intrested in starting up a salt water tank for a very long time. but have put it off becuase i felt i did not yet have the experience to start up a nano reef as i have been told it's quite difficult. i live in the doorms so the biggest tank i can have is ten gallons. one reason why i'm intrested in a nano. i would like to know waht you guy recomend for type and wattage of lights, i have two 125 watt daylight florescent bulbs i'd like to use if this is adaquate.

 

 

also what kind of filtration i should use. i know the articles sections reccomends using a natrural method but i just can't convince myself to use only that. i'd prefer to do both as i'm a stickler for over filtration.

 

 

as far a setting up the tank, idealy what i'd like to do is start out with sand and live rock. and let the sand become live sand over time. if this is possible how long will it take? i want to go this route becuase the smallest bag of live sand i can find if 50lbs. way to much for a ten gallon tank.

 

 

i don't want to put any corals, fish or clean up critters until the sand has become life (if that is possible) . i'd like to start out with hardy species of both fish and coral, so i'm intrested in hear which ones you've had the best luck with.

 

 

anyother information would be much appreciated. thanks in advance.

[coralreefengr]

Over filtration is all fine and good aside from the parts where it takes nutrients from the water that can be used by micro-fauna and additional nitrates produced by wet/dry filters or bio-balls. You don't mention which method of additional filtration you were looking at, but it is really unnecessary. It's just additional cost, more parts to break and the above mentioned issues. I have a 10 gallon with aquacultured live rock and live sand. I basically started out with "dead" rock and substrate and "seeded" the system with sand from an established tank. Indo-pacific sea farms and GARF.org both offer decent products or you can get some from someone you know.

 

It does help to use a "disposable" fish, if you will, to help cycle your tank. Lots of people use a damsel and it usually lives through the process. That will help get the nitrogen process started. Some people also cycle their tanks with live rock. That would eliminate the disposable fish requirement. You might want to read up on the "cycling with live rock" process.

[offsprg01]

sorry forgot to mention that i was planning on cycling w/ live rock. so if i understand you correctly my sand will become live from the live rock over time? that would be great. i have already read all the articles on this site and many others. so since i'm going to be cycling w/ live rock do i need to put in a damsel and possibly have it die? i do not think i will need to at least according to the article on this site.

 

about the filtration, i have no idea what kind of filtration i'd use, i'm game for anything but bio balls.

 

those two companies you mentioned which products are you recommending?

 

thanks again

[zizmans]

Or instead of using a damsel to cycle your tank, you could use 1/2 a prawn from the grocery store. I also used NITROMAX and found it helped to speed up the cycling process. A small skimmer should help you with filtration. I'm too paranoid to go with all natural, but that's just me. Some people do and have no probs. but without a refugium I don't see how you could, from your living arrangement it sounds like you are going for Compact. I use an Aquaclear 200 with a picollo skimmer for added filtration, I'm happy with it. (pics in Members Nanos) As far as lighting goes I'm still doing my research. I suggest you post the question in the Lighting Forum, they really know their stuff.

[coralreefengr]

www.ipsf.com has live sand activator that is basically live sand from their systems that contains micro-fauna and nitrifying bacteria. Similarly for www.garf.org product called garf grunge.

 

If you are using live rock to cycle your tank, there is no need to add livestock for cycling purposes.

 

Mechanical filtration mostly serves to aid in the nitrification process. However, if you have adequate live rock and live sand, it is essentially unnecessary. If you do some more research, you will find that adequate quantities of live rock and live sand are ALL you need for filtration. I'd like to also direct you to www.reefcentral.com for additional research. You should be able to find an article there written by Dr. Ron Shimek about protien skimmers. My take on the article is that skimmers mostly strip nutrients from the system and can be eliminated by assuring proper aeration through water movement. Basically make sure you move the surface of the water enough to provide sufficient oxygen exchange.

 

In a nutshell, my recommendations are as follows:

Cycle your system as planned with live rock; skip the damsel

Skip additional filtration; Most people use live rock and sand proportional to the volume of their tanks. For example, 10-20 lbs of sand, 10 lbs of rock.

Skip the skimmer.

 

The concensus for nano-reefs seems to agree with the above. I seriously recommend keeping things simple with minimal equipment. I'm sure you will find others who agree.

[Crakeur]

if you want to buy live sand, you can get it from various sources, such as premiumaquatics.com and a few other places and they sell it by the pound.

 

Jeff's exotic fish also sells it by the pound (I think). You can go with plain ole sand and get a cup of sand from an established reef to seed it, or let the critters go from the rock to the sand but I thought I'd point out that you don't need to go the 50lb bag route. Those prepackaged bags contain the bacteria in live sand but not the critters.

[palaegic]

As you have indicated above that you are a long standing aquarist, hopefully you won't be spooked by the normal break-in of your new nano-reef.

 

You will get lots of good advice - even contradictory good advice. Ultimately reefkeeping comes down to following some broad, but specific guidelines - and then getting to the point where you just do what works for you and your setup.

 

I agree with the rest, skip the fish.

 

I am guessing you already have sand (given that you keep brackish) If it is a fine grade, and aragonite sand - then few people here will argue with using what you already have available. Ideally, you can combine several pounds of dead sand - and then distribute a layer of live sand on the top. (others have recommended means for getting your hands on just a few pounds of live sand) You also have the option of just letting your live rock distribute bacteria and critters to your sandbed - this will just take more time - months to transform your bag sand into a mature livesand bed.

 

As for your lighting - 125W is plenty for a 10G, just be aware of the color rendering index (CRI) for the bulbs. If they are true 'daylight' bulbs, they should be around 5500- 6500K. Hopefully you have done some homework on lighting and know about CRI, use of actinics - etc. If not, ask away.

 

Filtration - Like the others, I say avoid additional mechanical filtration during run-in. If you decide to run a small power filter, thats fine - but more is truly not necessary, especially in a nano-reef. Once you are established, you get to make some of the personal choices described earlier. If you do ultimately decide you want, or need additional filtration - a protein skimmer is the best option. Again, this is not required during run-in, and as pointed out, many don't use them at all.

 

Something important for you to consider; you pointed out that you are starting the tank in a college dormitory correct? If so, you will need to make sure that your setup is portable. If your in spring session, you will be breaking down your new tank for break when it is only a few weeks old. Don't use a 4" sandbed and stack 12 lbs of liverock in the system if you are going to packing up in a few weeks, or if you plan on moving the setup regularly. Start with 2" of sand and a few lbs of liverock for run-in then depending on your living situation, you can add more from there.

 

Holy crap this post is turning into a novella - so I'm done. Welcome aboard and have fun.

[pitbullpooch]

a good way to make your sand live also is see if there is anyone in your area who will donate or sell you a cup of live sand from their tank.this will be better then any that you can buy or try to find a couple of people to borrow from .as far as additional filtration you wont need it as long as you have the rock and sand and also a good cleanup crew you will be fine.skimmers take away from the tank.do a small water change weekly(10%)and you will be good to go.for lighting i would look into power compacts .what i did is search in the lighting forum and then you will find about how much light you need for what you want to keep.good luck

[offsprg01]

you guys have been a big help. thanks alot. i guess i bit my tounge and cross all of my finger and toes and go with natural filtration only. ( :*( owe souldn't bit etounge, kinda hurts) anyway, i do make sure all of my tanks are portable. (learned that the hard way.) i can pretty much dump a whole tank in a bucket accept for the sand and a few inches of water, and move them one tank at a time. usually it takes my about a week to transport all my tanks (inbetween work and class) to their new home. my lights are true daylight bulbs so they'll work. i read some where on the forums that power sweep power heads aren't reccomend. well what brand and size is reccomended? and i am quite happy that i don't have to cycle the tank with a damsel. i don't cycle with fish. i hate have casualties. actually i don't have to cycle any of my fresh or brackish tanks anymore. i found this nifty stuff called biospira. i didn't think it would work but it really does. (to bad they haven't come out with a salt water version) thanks agian for all the help.

[offsprg01]

one more question. do i need to all the clean up crew from the start or does the tank need to cycle first? i'm thinking it need to cycle first, but this is all new to me so i'm not sure.

[palaegic]

Yup, let that sucker cycle. No livestock. After your ammonia and nitrite have dropped to zero, you can add your janitors.

[offsprg01]

reply great. what about a refugium? (think i spelled that right) it that a good way to go. i'm thinking so becuase i can increase the water volume and still mantain a tank that is technically only a ten gallon tank. i'd like to do a ten gallon refugium, as i have more than enought tanks laying around.

[palaegic]

As long as you are prepared to deal with the plumbing and added overhead - sure, go for it. You could also consider just dividing a 10. Have a sand bed and macroalgae on one side, and a functional sump on the other.

[offsprg01]

i do no think i will cost a whole lot more as i have a pump that i took off of a foutian that i made for my sculpture class (when i say foutian i mean a really lage foutian, weighed something like 1 and a half tons. i sold it to someone but when they moved it the broke several of the rock. who you manage to break a 250 pound rock i'll never know. so they gave me back all the hard ware and use the rock to make benches for their fish pond.) so i've got most of the plumbing already. just need to build an overflow box. thanks agian. i'm off to the hardware store. man my g/fs gonna throw a fit when i tell her i can't afford to take her out this weekend becuse i'm setting up another tank. lol