Help me, Please....

[ScottyDaug]

Hi, I guess the best place to start is from the begining. On March 15th we went to the LFS to buy some new freshwater fish(I have had freshwater tanks off and on for about ten years now). My sister-in-law went with us, she over heard us saying that we wouldnt mind trying a small saltwater tank sometime, so she bought us the setup that day. A nice gentleman, who has a 125 gallon tank said that if we followed him home he would give us some already cycled water from his tank, so we did that. When we got home we set it up. The equipment is as follows: ten gallon all glass aquarium, "perfecto" plastic hood with flourescent bulb, Aquaclear "mini" w/media in it, Approx two inches of crushed coral on the bottom, approx seven pounds of live rock, and a 50 watt Hagen heater(I know its cheap, planning on upgrading to a better one). The tank had been setup for three days, and I added two clownfish. At first they seemed fine, but then then slowly there color started fading, and they had a lose of appetite. I added a feather duster and a mushroom coral a week later(both are still doing very well), after about two weeks in the clownfish started gasping(there mouth opened every time they breathed), and within a few days they both died. The whole time I was testing the water and everything looked fine. I even took a sample to the LFS and they said it was fine. They suggested that maybe it was "clownfish" disease, and to try something else, so last night we brought home two yellowtail damsels & a brittlestar. Everything seemed happy last night, but when we got home from work today one of the damsels is gone, and the other wont eat, and is gasping. I assume the other damsel died and the crabs, and or brittle star consumed his carcass. There are 5 blue legged hermits, and four snails in the tank as well. I just tested the water and it is as follows:KHd=13(I know its a bit hard, the LFS told me my test kit was wrong when it wasnt), Nitrites=0 mg/l, Ammonia=0 mg/l, Specific Gravity=1.0215, temp=76 F. Everything besides fish seems to thrive in the tank, What am I doing wrong? I have tryed very hard to make this tank work. I am getting very frustrated. If anyone could help me I would be very Grateful. My LFS has not been able to solve my problem. Sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to make sure all the details are here.

 

 

Thanks in advance,

ScottyDaug

[Mnesarchus]

Ok, firstly you need to get a new LFS. "Clownfish Disease"? There are a few things you can do now to prevent things like this happening again.

 

SLOOOOOOOOOOW DOWN!!!!!

 

You have to wait for saltwater tanks to cycle, even if you get 'pre-cycled' water. You added new sand, rock so the tank needs time. Marine systems are much different that freshwater - and much more expensive. Dont add anything else for at least a couple of weeks. Upgrading the lights might be a good idea too.

 

hth

[Crakeur]

mistake number 1: buying the tank without doing a little research. These little reefs are not easy to keep and fish stores sell them way too often, without warning of the difficulties in starting with reefs at this tiny level.

 

Ok, so you made the mistake, let's get thru it.

 

Mistake number 2: putting fish into the tank without allowing the tank to cycle. The tank had water from someone else's tank, which may be good or bad, depending on the water quality. However, the live rock needs to cycle so anything put into the tank is at risk. Ammonia will spike, nitrates and nitrites will spike. Things will die off during this period. Clownfish disease, whatever the hell that is, is probably not the issue.

 

Mistake number three: Listening to the lfs when they suggest trying other fish. When you have a problem, you must solve it first before putting more fish in the tank. Brittle starts are not a great inhabitant for a small reef. they walk all over the corals and can cause damage to the corals, not to mention that they might go after fish that are small enough.

 

Now that we know that the lfs can't be trusted, what else could be wrong?

 

First off, I would allow the tank to acclimate and cycle for a solid month before considering adding more fish. keep testing the water during this period. If anything dies, get it out. Don't add anything until the cycle finishes. During that period, take some time to read the articles Chris has posted in the information section of this website. they are very informative and should provide you with the basics of what you need to know.

 

Lastly, what water are you using for water changes? If it's tap water, stop using it. Get yourself some distilled water or ro/di water (more info on this in the articles) as the water is "cleaner" and tap water tends to cause more problems than anything else when it comes to reef tanks.

 

Successfully keeping reef tanks is not easy. Keeping small ones is a lot harder and most of the things you will learn will be from your own mistakes so be prepared for some anguish and frustration. The end result however, can be very rewarding so don't give up.

[Twins Guy]

i totally agree with crakeur and mnes.

i'd also be curious to see what your pH readings are like. depressed?

based on the relatively low turnover of water (might consider adding a powerhead) and sealed up nature of classic tank hood combos you might be suffering from excessive CO2. in a new tank with cycling taking place aerobic processes are gonna consume alot oxygen and introduce high concentrations of CO2. a low pH reading may be indicative of high dissolved concentrations of CO2.

also you mentioned that the aquaclear mini was filled with media. what exactly are you running? most people around here leave the biological filtration to the LR and sand (hence no sponge), and some occasionally run carbon for chemical filtration. otherwise our HOB filters are used primarily for circulation.

HTH

tg

[harbingerofthefish]

your SG is a little low, shoot for 1.023. It could be an acclimation thing for the fish. By your saying they are "gasping" that sounds like not enough oxygen in the water. If your running a HOB filter I wouldn't see that as being a problem but you never can tell.

 

Biggest thing is you got the water from someone elses tank. Have you tested for phosphates, copper, silicates, nitrates, etc...?

 

I would hold off on adding any fish and start buying your own water. Do regular water changes. "clownfish" disease??

 

actually it sounds like your tank is trying to cycle, you might undetectable traces of ammonia, etc... but the fish live in it and it will kill them. I would take out the fish as it will probally die. As your tank is still new, let it sit. keep testing. patience. Adding the clowns 3 days after setting the tank up was not a good start. there will be die off from the rock.

 

the crabs, snails, star, worms, will live through a lot compared to what a fish will.

[ScottyDaug]

Thank for the info, I wish my LFS had given me such info, instead of telling me what I wanted to hear. I am going to let the tank "cycle" for another month with no fish. In the tank now is a feather duster, a serpent star, a mushroom coral, four snails, and five blue legged hermits. Is the phytoplankton I put in for the feather duster enough to feed these inhabitants? How often should I feed the Phytoplankton? Should I put in some frozen Brine shrimp once and a while during the cylce? I am afraid of adding to much food without the fish, becuase the ammonia will spike if nothing consumes it. I am going to order an Ebo Jager heater(50w) and a powerhead. The powerhead is a Rio 50 by Taam(69 gph), they have other models by the same company with stronger flows at the same price. Is this powerhead a good choice? Thanks for all your help.

 

ScottyDaug

[ScottyDaug]

I have 7lbs of live rock, and crushed coral on the bottom(not live sand). Will this work for the natural filtration metod? Should I remove the sponge filter media from my Aquaclear "mini", and just run carbon in it. I plan on doing a 10% - 15% water change weekly with premixed distilled water. Will the crushed coral eventually become live?

 

 

Thanks in advance...

Scottydaug:blush:

[Deimos]

Oh boy Scotty...

 

Methinks ye need to READ. A lot...and when you think you've read enough...keep reading...even as your brain starts hemmorhaging from all the information its trying to absorb...keep reading.

 

Point 1: STOP FEEDING THE TANK...pronto. The tank will produce plenty of food on its own for the few inhabitants you have, thank you very much. Die-off will feed the crabs as will the algae that will invariably bloom in any new tank. Your tank is producing enough phytoplankton on its own right now to more than likely feed 20 feather dusters (which your probably already have..although not quite as large as the one you purchased).

 

Point 2: Crushed Coral is CRAP. Period..end of story. Its sharp and pointy and too large...if you were a substrate-dwelling invertebrate would you want to crawl through something thats going to scrape the hell out of you everytime you moved? It will become "live" in the sense that it WILL host bacterial colonies..but thats about it. Don't hope for any spontaneous generation of new corals from dead coral skeleton.

 

Point 3: The best use for HOB filters in nanos is for water circulation and possibly as a mini refugium (not familiar with the concept? read up). Its also a handy place to run carbon..but most people only run carbon on occassion.

 

In summation...READ.

 

HTH...

[palaegic]

Hey ScottyDaug,

 

Hope your'e not feeling too beat up...

Just remember that the advice you get here is based upon the failures and successes of a whole host of folks. As a group, the forum provides information for helping others get started - and hopefully nailing it on their first outting. You have unfortunately had some missteps out of the gate. It appears that you haven't lost anything just yet.

 

Put the brakes on for at least a month. You have an awful lot of livestock in a VERY young system. Your system still needs to go through some growing pains before it is stable, and will give you time to deal with some of the potentially frustrating circumstances that make a lot of newcomers give up the hobby. Stick around - we'll give ya some tough love, but in the end we can oggle some baby pics of your new nano and crack a beer.