Overflow - what if water lowers and pump is still working?

[non-photosynt]

I'm in a process of connecting refugium to a Nano-Cube 6g, using PVC overflow (pretzel type) because of low clearance behind NC6, even a small Lee's specimen container don't fit in, and it'll make no noise. If anyone is interested in details, logic is here, here and photos are here, Aquayne_wv posts.

It works just as any overflow box.

 

Some basic questions:

 

- if water lowers below intake, no flow to the refugium, return pump in the refugium continues working: pump empties refugium and continue to run dry until burns, display tank is overflowed(?) onto the floor. Or level in the display tank rises and intake starts to supply water to refugium again?

 

- if syphon breaks, water from display flows into refugium. When level will be below intake, flow stops, right? So I'll need only to make space in the refugium to accomodate volume of the overflow tubes content and the difference between intake level and water level in the display tank.

 

- in case of power failure, I'll need a hole in the return pump hook, just below a water level, so there will be no syphon flow in the refugium. In the intake line - water lowers below intake tube and stops. So again, I'll need only a space in the refugium to accomodate volume of this difference in water levels.

 

Check the logic, please. My hydrodynamic planning ever was limited to a matching inflow and outflow.

Anything else that I should know?

[mascencerro]

I'm in a process of connecting refugium to a Nano-Cube 6g, using PVC overflow (pretzel type) because of low clearance behind NC6, even a small Lee's specimen container don't fit in, and it'll make no noise. If anyone is interested in details, logic is here, here and photos are here, Aquayne_wv posts.

It works just as any overflow box.

 

Some basic questions:

 

- if water lowers below intake, no flow to the refugium, return pump in the refugium continues working: pump empties refugium and continue to run dry until burns, display tank is overflowed(?) onto the floor. Or level in the display tank rises and intake starts to supply water to refugium again?

 

if the refugium pump kept pumping the water back up, wouldnt the level get to the top of the overflow once again causing the water to start flowing back into the fuge again? Shouldnt overflow unless something is actually blocking the intake.

 

- if syphon breaks, water from display flows into refugium. When level will be below intake, flow stops, right? So I'll need only to make space in the refugium to accomodate volume of the overflow tubes content and the difference between intake level and water level in the display tank.

 

fill the fuge with the water level just below the intake so you know how much, then fill the display tank to desired level above intake, thus creating a balance? Once the level gets above the intake, it should start going to fuge, and if pump is working correctly and enough, would pump back to display.

 

- in case of power failure, I'll need a hole in the return pump hook, just below a water level, so there will be no syphon flow in the refugium. In the intake line - water lowers below intake tube and stops. So again, I'll need only a space in the refugium to accomodate volume of this difference in water levels.

 

if you fill the fuge to desired level, then adjust the display tank, once the intake is covered, the water should fill it and start flowing to the fuge. If the pump is on, it will pump back to display. If pump is off, it will fill up until the intake is open, creating your siphon break. Just dont put too much water in.

 

Check the logic, please. My hydrodynamic planning ever was limited to a matching inflow and outflow.

Anything else that I should know?

 

 

I could be a little off on it, but as long as you dont have the fuge completely full, and leave a little room for the water that is above the intake, you should be ok because once the intake is above the waterline, all that is left to flow in is the water in the intake tube.

[non-photosynt]

Thank you!

This is the only fuge with water level, different from the display tank - wanted to keep Nano-Cube visible from all 3 sides. Other tanks have trouble-free fuges with the same water level, so no worries about flooding.

[The Propagator]

YES IT COULD BE A PROBLEM.

You could burn your pump up FAST if that every happends

 

Invest in two small float switches. Problem solved.

One for the main display to kick the pump off if the water level rises past a certain point and one in the sump to kick the pump off if it drops below a certain point.

You will have to play around with different heights to find a happy medium.

[non-photosynt]

Thanks, I didn't think about this before, will do.

[non-photosynt]

The only float switches, that I could find at Big Al's, are these, Coralife Float Valve & Auto Shut-Off Valve Kit, looks big and quite expensive, CN$40 each. This is even more.

Or a this Float valve, CN$27?

May be I should rethink the idea of the refugium below the display tank. It becomes troublesome.

[supernip]

GFCI

[non-photosynt]

GFCI

Ground faulty circuit interruptor? How can I use it for a purpose?

[formerly icyuodd/icyoud2]

you know i think your making this alot harder than it is. this is for a ref set up right?

 

i'd elevate the fuge higher than the nano. pump water from the nano to the fuge.(pump in nano) i'd drill and add a bulkhead to the ref, and allow water to overflow back into the display. in the event of a power failer the pump will shut off and all water will stop. (you will still need a syphen break hole in the ref so the water doesnt syphen back to the pump)

 

your water level wont change in either tank. (much) and there should never be enough water to flood the system (unless your ref return is completely blocked)you could add 2 returns to prevent this from happening

 

this set up will also be benificial for delivering more pods to your display.

 

i have a similar 2.5 connected to my system. it is lower than my display, but the idea is the same. it flows from my display to the 2.5 then overflows and falls into my sump.

 

the water is sent to the 2.5 via a syphen hose (my tank is lower so i dont need a pump) in your case, you'd pump the water to the ref. then it overflows out the pvc diy bulkhead (top right corner) falling to my sump (in your case back to the display)

[non-photosynt]

Sorry, drilling an established Nano-Cube is out of question, can't risk it and don't want to disrupt life of tank habitants. Somehow corals, that don't live in another tanks, live and grow here quite well.

 

Also, why I tried to make refugium below the tank, not at the same level as Nano-cube (in same level case, on some distance - 1yrd/1m or so, without restricting access to NC from the all 3 visible sides), because wall at this level is already in use. Will see. So far, no refugium.

 

When I started this, it's didn't sound difficult:

- if tank is not drilled, use overflow box,

- if overflow box doesn't fit in narrow place - use pretzel of PVC overflow,

- inflow/outflow shouldn't be restricted by the ball valves (long description why it works this way).

 

Some questions remained, so I asked.

All I wanted - to keep all simple...

[The Propagator]

I "think" supernip might have been trying to make refference to to a relay for the float switches.

 

 

These are the floats I have used in the past.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Liquid-Level-Switches-...3QQcmdZViewItem

 

I use them for auto top off though. I havent set one up yet on the 100g wet dry since I relocated every thing into it.

 

If you use them with a pump larger then an MJ1200 ( which you definately will) you'll need to run them in line with a relay so you dont fry the float switch.

It steps down the voltage/amps.

[paneubert]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but something is bothering me about the plumbing of this hypothetical system. In the first link that you provide to the logic" of your piping at

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...mp;#entry643674

 

they use letters to represent parts of the plumbing. If "C" is wrapping up and over the outer main tank wall, how is water supposed to flow in at "A" and fill "C" on its way to "E" without overflowing your main tank? Won't the water have to flow over the top rim of the main tank in order to reach as high as "C" is located? The only way I can see this method working is if you drill your tank and have "C" below the rim of your display, not wrapping up and over it. Am I missing something here?

[non-photosynt]

This hypothetical system works for some people in reality - links are in the first post.

 

Thanks, everyone: seems, it's too much trouble and expences, I'm changing plans - will use the small 2.5g refugium on the same level as the Nano-cube, just at 1yrd/m distance.

Planned (and already bought and set separately) 7g plastic container refugium for 6g nano-cube, and planned to use Mini-Jet 606, Maxi-Jet 1200 could smash everything in the 6g.

[steph2039]

you know i think your making this alot harder than it is. this is for a ref set up right?

 

i'd elevate the fuge higher than the nano. pump water from the nano to the fuge.(pump in nano) i'd drill and add a bulkhead to the ref, and allow water to overflow back into the display. in the event of a power failer the pump will shut off and all water will stop. (you will still need a syphen break hole in the ref so the water doesnt syphen back to the pump)

 

your water level wont change in either tank. (much) and there should never be enough water to flood the system (unless your ref return is completely blocked)you could add 2 returns to prevent this from happening

 

this set up will also be benificial for delivering more pods to your display.

 

i have a similar 2.5 connected to my system. it is lower than my display, but the idea is the same. it flows from my display to the 2.5 then overflows and falls into my sump.

 

the water is sent to the 2.5 via a syphen hose (my tank is lower so i dont need a pump) in your case, you'd pump the water to the ref. then it overflows out the pvc diy bulkhead (top right corner) falling to my sump (in your case back to the display)

 

I realize I'm reviving a fairly old thread here, but this is exactly what I want to do. I have a 9 gallon cadlights main display and want to incorporate a 2.5 gallon above tank refugium. Honestly, I have no idea how to drill a tank so I bought a cpr overflow for the refugium. I'm going to pump water from the 9 gallon to the refugium and then let it overflow back into the main display (the 9 gallon). I'm hopeful that this will work.

 

Stephanie

[formerly icyuodd/icyoud2]

that will work just fine, but you will have a couple issues to deal with.

 

heres how the system will work in both the on and off position

 

if you watch the water levels in the display and sump. you'll notice they change when the system is off/on.

 

so heres what you have to deal with.

 

#1 when your pump turns on, your display level is going to drop. aquariums look much nicer if theres no air visible in the displays front pain of glass. your water will drop and make for an unsightly display.

 

your also going to have to deal with the uglyness of a pump in your display.

 

#2 micro bubbles in the display caused by the falling water. in a sump we use baffles to remove the air. in the display its alittle tougher to do.

 

soooo heres what i would do.

 

personally i'd wouldnt use the overflow, i'd drill the aquarium (which is very easy to do with the correct tools. i touch base on the procedure in my dream tank thread

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103386

 

the reason i suggest drilling the aquarium is this. with a properly placed syphen break hole, and drilled tank, you can limit how much water leaves the display before the ref starts filling it back up. this will prevent the display from drasticly dropping.

 

option #2 with the overflow.

 

you need to incorparate a false wall in your display (kinda like the nano cubes) 2 seperate areas, one for the falling water (you can use a sponge to help remove the air) and one for your pump.

 

now the first chamber you need holes for the water to exit into the display. i'd cut teeth in the top ( just incase the sponge is dirty restricting flow) and holes/hole approx 2-3" above the bottom of the aquarium to allow most of the water to exit. (having is 2-3" above the bottom will aslo help limit air entering the display)

 

the second chamber will only have teeth cut in the top (to recap, the compartments will only be connect via the display)

the teeth cut into the top of the second chamber will do 2 things.

first it will surface skim your display. second it will maintain the surface level of the display (display stays the same-top of the teeth) while the back chamber level will drop when the system is powered up.

 

the pump chamber should be 2/3-3/4 of the area. the bigger the better. as your water evaporates this area is the only area that will drop. same when the system is powered up. if you dont make this area large enough, your pump will run dry on a daily basis.

 

heres a quick doodle of the display.

hth