Save a Reef, Drill a 10g

[Mr. Fosi]

I am moving soon and I want to run a bigger system after I move.

 

Right now I have a 5.5g (see sig) and I want to run a 2x10g when my wife and I are settled in our new place.

 

I don't want to have a syphon overflow in the tank, so I am thinking about drilling configurations. I won't have to worry about any of the glass being tempered, because I will be using All Glass aquariums.

 

Right now, I think I want to drill the bottom panel of the display for a curved corner overflow and stand-pipe. I may want to drill the back panel for two or more return lines.

 

I prefer to drill the bottom because I like the look of corner stand pipes and I think it provides a little more protection because it don't be sticking off the side of the tank (*bump*, *crack*, "Darn it! Honey, I think we're going to need a new carpet.").

 

I've done a search here at NR and also on the web to learn more about drilling aquariums and I have come away with a couple impressions that relate to my plans:

 

1) Drilling the bottom of a tank is not preferable because the hole makes it substantially weaker.

 

2) Drilling 1/8" glass is not easy to do without cracking it.

 

 

I think I have found a way to overcome these obstacles:

 

1) Remove the stock tank bottom and replace it with drilled 1/4" glass.

 

2) Reinforce the back-panel drilling sites with suqares of 1/8" glass to prevent cracks due to the drilling or plumbing, or find an alternate plumbing method.

 

 

Here are my questions:

 

1) If I drill more than one hole in it, should I replace the stock back panel with 1/4" glass even though I'd have to sand down two of the remaining sides to make it fit under the plastic trim?

 

2) What are some alternative ways cleanly plumb sump returns without drilling the back panel?

 

3) What return pump would you use for the sump return if you weren't planning for any SPS or clams?

[adinsxq]

acrylic

[Mr. Fosi]

Weak silicone bond + bowing.

[calvin415]

If you want to keep the plumbing clean and hidden drill the bottom twice one for the drain the other for the return and hide them with the overflow... I would replace the bottom with 1/4 to be safe, or you can just drill the back and avoid replacing the glass at all. It's not as clean for plumbing but it's a lot easier. BTW, if you have a drill press it makes drilling a 10 gallon a breeze and spend the extra couple bucks and get the glass cutting drill bit, it's a lot easier and a lot faster.

 

http://www.tankblogger.com/ViewSlideShow.aspx?SSID=5

http://stores.ebay.com/Treasure-HK-Ltd

[Smada77]

If you were to drill the back, I would have sections of hose tubing (instead of all PVC) to reduce the risk of *bump* *crack* "honey we need a new carpet" syndrome.

 

I know it doesn't look as good as all-pvc, but it looks one helluva lot better than lake havasu in your living room.

[Mr. Fosi]

...you can just drill the back and avoid replacing the glass at all. It's not as clean for plumbing but it's a lot easier.

 

Yeah, but if you bump plumbing that is mounted through 1/8" glass, doesn't that lead to a crack?

 

I like your double drill idea to hide the return, plus there wouldn't be pipes running hither and thither.

 

BTW, if you have a drill press it makes drilling a 10 gallon a breeze and spend the extra couple bucks and get the glass cutting drill bit, it's a lot easier and a lot faster.

 

Thanks for the links. So, you don't recommend the dremel/rotozip method? I like the drill press method (and I do have access to one) and I have heard good things about those Honk Kong bits... Maybe I'll just shell out the $9.50 and get one of those bits off ebay.

 

Anyone else? How about the return pump?

[calvin415]

10 gallon glass is really thin so I wouldn't recommend the dremel method, it's just to easy to crack. Using a drill press and bit we drilled a 10 gallon tank without issue and it was pretty solid, it only cracked when we tried to wedge a skimmer between the tank and the side of the cabinet. As long as you don't put too much pressure on the tank itself it should hold just fine.

 

For a return pump on a 10 gallon you'd want 10-20x turn over so 100-200 gph after head loss unless you want to go barebottom (sand will probably be a mess with anything more) and up it to 30-40x turn over for SPS...

 

Quiet One pumps are great IME so either a Q1 800 (220gph) or Q1 1200 (296 gph), if you want more flow, you could go with a MAG 3 (350 gph) or MAG 5 (500 gph). If you do want more flow, I would recommend installing a return manifold with multiple outlets, being fed from the return line plumbed through the overflow. Hope this makes sense...

[Bikelock]

I have drilled with a dremmel with success, but any type of pressure on plumbing and the tank breaks.

 

Solution, make your own tank out of 1/4" glass any size you like. A little more money but you get exactly what you want.

 

Current project 43 gal cubish tank with integrated sump. Display 30 gallons, sump 10 gallons, cost of glass and silicone $95. Sump will have 4 compartments, overflow skimmer, chaeto area, CL pump, return pumps.

 

Just an option. I have little ones and do not want any sump mishaps, kids climbing the plumbing, ect.

 

In the sump will be ehiem 1262 running a manifold with 3 outlets, 2 mj600 for retuns, UTR recirc skimmer, lighting 4 24" SLS t-5HO, chaeto light worklight on back.

[Charlie97L]

^^ i agree. just make the whole tank yourself. you're talking about replacing 2 big panels anyway already. might as well just do the 1/4" all the way. maybe even go 1/2" on the back/bottom.

[Mr. Fosi]

Solution, make your own tank out of 1/4" glass any size you like... cost of glass and silicone $95.

 

just make the whole tank yourself.... might as well just do the 1/4" all the way. maybe even go 1/2" on the back/bottom.

 

I really appreciate the suggestions (especially the ones regarding return pump and plumbing) and I know that this is a $$ intensive hobby, but really don't have the cash to make an entire tank out of 1/4" - 1/2" glass.

 

What I have to work with is: 2x10g AGAs, assorted PVC and vinyl tubing sizes/fittings, a few panes of 1/8" glass, tubes of clear silicone, and about $80 (some of which I need to buy the lighting and return pump). I have other assorted tools related to the project, but those are the principle items.

 

I am negotiating with a guy on RC regarding a used coralife powerquad fixture and I plan to scrounge the 1/4" glass; I know a guy who owns a glass shop and my parents have a farm that is loaded with all kinds of junk, including glass panes.

 

The reason that I don't want to replace the back wall is because I don't think that I can scrounge that much 1/4" glass. I certainly won't be able to score any 1/2" glass without paying retail.

 

The real problem here is that I have a 40hr/wk $8/hr job. That translates to $260/wk, over 3/4 of which goes to utility bills, gasoline, and the grocery. When you add on the fact that we are moving in less than three months (and therefore have to save as much as we can), that pretty much eats up any $$ that I may have been able to use for this project.

 

On the flip side, if I don't get most of this project done before I leave, I certainly will not have the time or the money to do it any time during the first year after we move. This is mainly do to the fact that I will be insanely busy with school, we will have gone broke moving, our first child will be born, and all my sources of cheap/free equipment will be 800mi away.

 

If I didn't already have all the rock, sand, and livestock I want/need for the 10g I wouldn't even be considering this; I'd just set my little 5.5g up when we get down there.

 

So: I want to replace only bottom panel (unless I can't avoid it) and I will be trying to find a used quiet, mag, or ehiem pump that will give me something above 250gph after head loss.

[Ryan_H]

shoot, to make things simple why not steal the plastic rim off the 10 and use it to frame a DIY out of 1/4".

[Mr. Fosi]

^- See previous post.

[calvin415]

If you can replace the bottom panel easily with 1/4" and drill it, it sounds like it's your best bet. Besure you clean the glass really well with acetone and remove any old silicon before trying to reseal the new bottom. What are you planning on using for an overflow? What do you plan on putting in the sump? Do you already have the other pieces of equipment planned out?

[Mr. Fosi]

If you can replace the bottom panel easily with 1/4" and drill it, it sounds like it's your best bet.

 

I agree.

 

Besure you clean the glass really well with acetone and remove any old silicon before trying to reseal the new bottom.

 

Yep, already in the plan. I really don't need the bottom dropping out once it is full of sand, rock, water, and living things.

 

What are you planning on using for an overflow?

 

I have several pieces of 1/8" acrylic sitting around and I am planning to bend one with a paint stripping heat gun. I figured that if I bent it I wouldn't have to worry about 1/8" being too weak (the whole Hoover Dam effect).

 

What do you plan on putting in the sump?

 

Some 1/8" glass baffles, a modded seaclown skimmer (which I am testing right now), some rubble, some chaeto, a return pump, and two heaters (one as a backup).

 

Do you already have the other pieces of equipment planned out?

 

So far, the things that I do not own are: 1/4" glass, adequate lighting, an adequate return pump, and a stand for the 2x10gs.

 

Like anyone who has been in this hobby for any length of time, I have a lot of unused equipment to call upon. I own, but am not currently using:

- several powerheads (mostly of the 145-200gph range)

- a magnum 350 canister

- 2x10g AGAs

- several submersible heaters of various powers

- assorted air pumps

- a 40g breeder w/stand

- a 35g w/stand

- an antique 11g (slate bottom and metal frame)

- other assorted "aquarium junk" as my wife calls it.

 

I am also running a 20g planted FW tank which has been up for 2+ years and used to be the 40 breeder (apartment too small ). It has its own equipment including an HOT magnum and DIY CO2 injector, but I don't know if I am going to set it back up after we move.

[Bikelock]

If you scrap glass then glue another one on as a brace and drill through both of them. I have heard of this being done before.

[jeremai]

I can solve the money issue: if you've any experience in hospitality, we're looking for casino hosts at $40k/year plus commissions.

 

At any rate, I'm interested to see what you come up with - tanks acquired with resourcefullness tend to have less problems than those acquired with an open budget.

[Mr. Fosi]

Bikelock: I mentioned that in my first post. I think it is a acceptable idea, but I don't want to do it if I don't have to.

 

I can solve the money issue: if you've any experience in hospitality, we're looking for casino hosts at $40k/year plus commissions.

 

I'll have to talk to my advisor at University of South Carolina and see if I can encorporate that into my marine science work.

 

At any rate, I'm interested to see what you come up with - tanks acquired with resourcefullness tend to have less problems than those acquired with an open budget.

 

This has certainly been the case with my FW tanks, I hope it holds true for SW as well.

 

I think I am going to come up with an equipment list and a few diagrams tonite, since lists and pictures usually help me get my head around a problem.

[-Dennis]

Strip one of the larger unused tanks (they have thicker glass) and custom make your tank. You should have a glass shop cut the glass to exact sizes but I belive you mentioned a connection to a shop so it would not be to costly.

 

The antique 11 gallon sounds cool also. Drilling the bottom of that would be very safe. You might want to re-silicone or replace the glass (see above idea about the thicker glass source)

[Mr. Fosi]

Strip one of the larger unused tanks (they have thicker glass) and custom make your tank. You should have a glass shop cut the glass to exact sizes but I belive you mentioned a connection to a shop so it would not be to costly.

 

Neat idea.

 

You might want to re-silicone or replace the glass (see above idea about the thicker glass source)

 

Already did, but I used 1/8" glass that I had laying around. When I found the tank, it was nothing more than the metal frame and the (broken) bottom. JB Weld was the perfect color, adhesion, and strength to fix the slate.

[Bikelock]

Mr. Fosi,

 

Last night just drilled 2 holes in 1/8" glass with a dremmel took all of 10 minutes. It is for my cl in my false wall wich will also have 1/8" black plexi with overflow cut in it.

 

My point is you can easily drill a second pane for support. It is very easy and cost effective.

 

You could also do an external overflow, I did this once on a 10gal. I just went overbored and tried to make it into a fuge and the tank leaked, not the external box but the tank from trying to make it the same height as the tank.

 

With the external overflow you could plumb over the top returns.

[Mr. Fosi]

You could also do an external overflow, I did this once on a 10gal... With the external overflow you could plumb over the top returns.

 

I don't want to have a syphon overflow in the tank...

 

I got a hold of a dremel yesterday. I am going use it to mod a seaclown, but I am toying with the idea of picking up some diamond bits to try some drilling this weekend.

[oogie]

If you are gonna drill with dremel,, here is what i did.

 

Here few things you need.

 

*Dremel Rotary Tool.

*Dremel bit 7144 or 7143. I prefer 7144 but either will be fine.

*Dremel bit 7103.

*Eye protection

*Bottle of water

*Plumbers epoxy putty (It comes in stick form)

*Sharpie marker (No DIY person should be without one!)

*Bulkhead

 

First you will need to mark a circle that will be cut. Put bulkhead you wish to use on the tank and draw a circle with your marker.

 

Open up the epoxy stick and follow instruction on the package. You will need almost the whole stick depending on size of the hole.

 

After kneading the stick, make a wall around the circle you just marked on the glass. Make sure you leave some room around it.

 

Now, you will need to fill that area with some water. After you filled it with water, you will need to take bit 7103, one with ball at the tip, and go thru your marked circle. Couple important points here.

1. Make sure your dremel is at highest speed.

2. When you go around the circle for first time, trace the outer edge of the circle not inner or center. If you don't do this, your hole WILL BE TOO SMALL.

3. When you go around for the first time, think you are engraving a circle, not cutting it.

 

Now repeat going around the circle by tracing your first "engraving".

 

Here is how it looks about half done.

 

Once you cut the circle around 3/4 of the thickness of the glass, change your bit to 7144 or 7143. Pick a spot and drill all the way thru the glass. Make sure you let the dremel drill, DO NOT FORCE!!!!! After you go thru the glass, start going around the circle cutting the circle out. Important thing here is, since you have cut thru the glass, water will start drain thru. Make sure you takes breaks and wet the surface you are cutting.

 

Here is what looks like after its done.

 

Once again, its not that hard, I have drilled about 6 holes so far, ranging from Ever-fragile NanoCube 6 to AGA 100G tanks which has super thick glass. So far, my sucess rate is 100%. Just take slow, and make sure glass is wet at ALL TIMES!

 

Good Luck.

 

BTW, I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for cracked tanks following this post.

 

Thanks

[Mr. Fosi]

Shinto: I was going to make the 11g a FW planted tank, but now that we will be moving, I think it may not come with us. Hopefully I will find someone to buy it before we move. I would hate to have to put it on the curb, especially since I shelled out the $$ for the glass.

 

oogie: Thank you for the primer.

 

I didn't get a chance to do anything that I wanted to do this weekend due to the fact that I came down with a moderately severe case of gastrointestinitis. I still feel a little bloat/tightness this morning (Monday), but I can't lose the $$ for missing work, so I am writing this from my work PC.

 

If I fully recover in the next couple days I will probably begin practice for drilling/replacing the bottom of a 10g.

[Bikelock]

I still feel a little bloat/tightness this morning (Monday), but I can't lose the $$ for missing work, so I am writing this from my work PC.

 

Well I can see you support the protest...LOL...

 

Go get the 2 bit diamond tip set from Walmart, I do not know the numbers, but it is cheap, like 8 bucks, and will give you a hand ful of holes. One looks like a ball, use this to get a hole started, the other is tapered, use this to cut the hole. I have also used the tapered to start the cut just takes a little finess to get it strted. Just remember that if you see dust add more water, if the tool gets red hot it is over, use the tapered like a saw and go back and forth you will be amazed how fast you will cut a hole.

 

Hope you feel better,

 

Bikelock

 

[andykee]

Go get the 2 bit diamond tip set from Walmart, I do not know the numbers, but it is cheap, like 8 bucks, and will give you a hand ful of holes. One looks like a ball, use this to get a hole started, the other is tapered, use this to cut the hole. I

this is what i used also. i used 2packages (4 bits total) to drill 3 holes in a 29 AGA. you could probably burn through quite a few holes on the 10g with one pack thogh.