FIRST CALL OUT THREAD

[Gilman]

OK

 

There seems to be some displeasure about the use of a foam background in the [sTOCK] category. If there are more than a few people against using a foam background, it will end up only being allowed in the Custom Contest where the equipment list is MUCH looser. It is not in the list of allowed equipment, and therefore may not end up being allowed if there is enough calling out.

 

You don't have to post, you can just vote. It will not take that many No votes for me to disallow this due to the fact that it is the much stricter [sTOCK] category.

 

ps. This thread was started to clean up one of the contest threads. I will be moving some posts here from that thread, hopefully it will all make sense once it's all pasted over.

[Reefgeek]

I have a problem with this being legal for the [sTOCK] catagory. I was under the impression that we are only allowed to paint the backs, going as far as to specify only blue or black! In addition, the foam hides some of his equipment, giving him a BIG advantage! Am I alone in feeling this way?

[Nednai]

I have a problem with this being legal for the [sTOCK] catagory. I was under the impression that we are only allowed to paint the backs, going as far as to specify only blue or black! In addition, the foam hides some of his equipment, giving him a BIG advantage! Am I alone in feeling this way?

 

I don’t know how you can say it’s a “BIG advantage” when it hasn’t been decided how the contestants will be judged.

[cybaix]

I have a problem with this being legal for the [sTOCK] catagory. I was under the impression that we are only allowed to paint the backs, going as far as to specify only blue or black! In addition, the foam hides some of his equipment, giving him a BIG advantage! Am I alone in feeling this way?

 

I agree with you.. foam could even be used to create false backs or surface skimmers if it is allowed. I would not have a problem with it if we were allowed to make a small overflow box to surface skim/hide equipment.

[p.o.t.u.s]

I have a problem with this being legal for the [sTOCK] catagory. I was under the impression that we are only allowed to paint the backs, going as far as to specify only blue or black! In addition, the foam hides some of his equipment, giving him a BIG advantage! Am I alone in feeling this way?

 

Yes.

 

I think it is fine...there would be no issue if he got live rock and shaped it with a hammer so it fit against the back wall. He should still be stock since it is not changing the tank itself.

[Reefgeek]

I don’t know how you can say it’s a “BIG advantage” when it hasn’t been decided how the contestants will be judged.

 

You are saying that you don't think that the ability to hide equipment will be a big advantage? I suppose that if the contest were judged ONLY on the growth of the corals I would agree but I'm guessing that the overall look of the tank will weigh heavily on the outcome.

 

Yes.

 

I think it is fine...there would be no issue if he got live rock and shaped it with a hammer so it fit against the back wall. He should still be stock since it is not changing the tank itself.

 

Taking a hammer to live rock and glueing it to the back wall would be a mod. Mods are not allowed in the stock contest.

[Gilman]

im going to start a thread discussing this, and move the posts that are involved over there to not muck up this contest thread.

[Travis]

Taking a hammer to live rock and glueing it to the back wall would be a mod. Mods are not allowed in the stock contest.

 

Glueing Rock together is MODIFYING the tank?

 

The rules said no mods to the TANK and other equipment. It's like glueing a pice of Coral to the LR, is that what you consider a mod too?

[Reefgeek]

okay, are we in a contest here or are we all just trying to see how many different ways we can screw with the rules? You know damn well there is a difference between glueing rock to other rock and glueing rock to the WALL OF THE TANK. I'm pretty sure you would say that is modifying the tank. If the majority rules in his favor I will just shut up but I can't believe that people don't understand the concept of the stock catagory. If minibows were excluded from the stock class because they are too different wouldn't logic point you to a foam wall being in the same column???

[Casabubu]

? You know damn well there is a difference between glueing rock to other rock and glueing rock to the WALL OF THE TANK.

 

Why wouldnt you be able to? Couldnt someone just glue a stack of rocks together, and then lean it aqainst the wall?! How is that much different from glueing rocks to the back wall?

[Gilman]

i think i lost a post somewhere.

[tinyreef]

you said you'd be cut/pasting from the other thread but i'll voice my opinion anyways.

 

my $0.02:

 

i think a foam structure or any other type of structure shouldn't qualify as a modification (as long as the volume and tank dimensions are kept within limits). e.g. using GARF rock or epoxying odds and ends into a reef shouldn't be construed as modifications. poor aesthetic taste maybe, but not mods.

 

if you're increasing the volume over 2.5g (btw i still adhere to the "<3g is a pico" sect), then you're in Custom.

 

if you modify the tank (other than aesthetically, e.g. paint), you go into Custom.

 

if you significantly modify a piece of auxiliary equipment beyond its original intended use (e.g. HOB to refugium), you go into Custom.

 

if you go over the noted limits (lighting and blah blah, i never really read the rules completely ), then you're in Custom.

 

other than that, you're in Stock.

 

again, just my pers opin.

[minimalist]

I agree that gluing rocks to the back wall should be legal in the stock category but that's not the point of this thread. Let's try to keep it on topic and discuss the foam only from this point onward.

 

-David

 

Edit: My personal opinion is that the foam is fine for the stock category. In all likelihood, this is the one and only tank that will actually employ it's use.

[tinyreef]

i think i lost a post somewhere.

yeah, mine.

 

good thing i re-posted. <mumble-grumble>

[Travis]

What if you put the fome on egg crate, and not on the tank, is that still a mod?

 

I think DF is afraid of the competition JK!

[Casabubu]

Its completely the point of this thread! When someone puts foam on the back wall of the tank, its the same as glueing rock to the back, only easier! He actually has a disadvantage because hes not getting the benefits of live rock!

[ZooGirl]

I think foam shouldn't be allowed in the STOCK category but in the CUSTOM category would be fine.

 

There is a specific list of what can be used and I think that's the whole point of the STOCK contest...see who can do the best looking tank with a minimal list of items.

 

The CUSTOM category is all about thinking outside of the 2.5 gallon box and coming up with something clever.

[rbaby]

Sounds pretty retarded to me, I think the skill of stocking and aquascaping is strictly based on how you can scape your rocks. You can have great corals but if you can't aquascape you might as well have gotten brown corals.

 

If people want to mold their rocks and make it perfect and have their little perfect caves and arches and little planter spots for their corals, that's fine--but I think it completely lowers the calibre of the competition...and yes this goes for foam too (which would also probably be used to hold some corals).

 

This way, you will actually have to put thought into cherry-picking your live rock to PLAN your scaping..."work with what you're given" is the theme of stock...should be that way with whatever rockwork you end up with to scape your tank.

 

Goes under CUSTOM, not stock IMO. Not like I care, I'm not in this contest...lol...

[minimalist]

"When someone puts foam on the back wall of the tank, its the same as glueing rock to the back!"

 

-Casabubu

 

No. No, it's not. LOL

 

-David

[tinyreef]

There is a specific list of what can be used and I think that's the whole point of the STOCK contest...see who can do the best looking tank with a minimal list of items.

 

The CUSTOM category is all about thinking outside of the 2.5 gallon box and coming up with something clever.

you've got a point there about ingenuity but why can't you employ that ingenuity within the Stock category?

 

is it bending the rules or going thru loopholes?

 

take my tank for an example. it's Stock except for an acrylic canopy i made.

 

now there's a couple of utiliarian issues (limiting evaporation and allowing sunlight) for using that canopy but it's technically allowed in the Stock rules (at least i think it is).

 

but if everyone decides the foam wall should be in Custom then i'll abide by that (although i disagree) but along that same thought, i think i should then be forced to change category to Custom as well (altho i would also disagree with that).

 

the foam isn't a modification. it's a decoration. (sorry, i just agree that LR is more effective)

 

the foam isn't modifying the tank, just like adding sand or LR or painting isn't considered modifying the tank.

[Reefgeek]

It is modifying the tank, because he sculpted it to seperate the intake of the filter from the rest of the tank. Not only does that totally hide the intake, it also makes for an easy way to make a surface skimmer as the only way the water is going to get in the filter is by going over it.

[minimalist]

Judging by the poll, there are enough no votes to push this into the custom category.

 

-David

[p.o.t.u.s]

Taking a hammer to live rock and glueing it to the back wall would be a mod. Mods are not allowed in the stock contest.

 

I have to say, I think you are quite wrong. Yes the foam is artificial, yes it is glued to the back wall, but is it a mod? No. Here's why:

 

1. It doesn’t matter that the foam is artificial:

He could use artificial rocks...GARF style...and that would be legal. He could also elect to put in FAKE corals…this is not a mod. The foam is no different.

 

2. It does not matter that he shaped the foam:

Breaking or chiseling LR to form a desired size or shape would not be a mod. The only issue then is gluing which is discussed below in point 4.

3. The foam is not functional:

He is not using the foam to build an overflow or serve any function other than what LR rock would. In fact, unlike LR, the foam does not serve any NNR function. Additionally, the foam decreases his tank’s volume. The only 2 benefits are (1) that the foam might be considered aesthetically pleasing and (2) that the foam could serve as an anchor for corals. The anchor argument is the most compelling but I don’t feel it prevails since GARF style rock could also be used as a surface to anchor corals.

 

4. The foam is not installed in a way that makes it a modification:

That the foam is glued to the tank is also moot. If he wanted to glue his live rock to the bottom of the tank for stability I strongly doubt anyone would have issue with that. Is there really such a difference between floor and back wall? I say no.

 

Based on the above points, foam is not a mod and he should be let into the stock category.

 

 

Judging by the poll, there are enough no votes to push this into the custom category.

 

-David

 

 

18 votes is hardly a reasonable sample size. Look at the number of people participating in the contest...then consider how many responses are reasonable.

 

there is no rush.

[Orange Crush]

Yes.

 

I think it is fine...there would be no issue if he got live rock and shaped it with a hammer so it fit against the back wall. He should still be stock since it is not changing the tank itself.

I agree with this entirely.

 

I also agree entirely with the post ^^^ just above mine.

[jmt]

I've been thinking about this and have come up with the following:

 

I say that he should be able to use the foam, as long as it is not used in any illegal manner (eg.: surface skimmer, partition, etc.).

 

So, to say, If he covers the back wall with foam, it should be allowed as long as the foam is not producing an added element other than aesthetics.

 

I think he should be allowed to hide the intake tube of the filter since the same effect can be acheieved with live rock. However, using it to skim the surface of the tank is a modification not allowed in the stock category.

 

You can take a dump in your tank as long as it's not a direct modification to the hardware (eg.: lights, filter, powerhead, etc.).

 

 

-jmt