Mr. Microscope Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Topic heading speaks for itself. I look at skimmers and I keep thinking over and over again, "yes, that looks like a nice piece of equipment, but $300, $400, $500?" I mean, I'm sure a lot of design work goes into it, but when all is said and done, aren't they're just simple plastic cylinders stacked up with some plumbing and a pump? From a materials standpoint, I don't get it. It's not like there are 50 LEDs in there that cost $6 a piece. There has to be more to it than just aquarium hobby mark-up. Forgive my naivety, and I'm not trying to be insulting to anyone in the industry. If there are any forum members that make these, I'd praise any enlightenment you could offer. Why are skimmers so expensive? Link to comment
siwelk Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The pump is usually the most expensive piece. Most DIY ones look like #### IME most 4" models are ~ $75-$300. I also don't have time to fabricate my own acrylic, and crap. Link to comment
aquatame Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Topic heading speaks for itself. I look at skimmers and I keep thinking over and over again, "yes, that looks like a nice piece of equipment, but $300, $400, $500?" I mean, I'm sure a lot of design work goes into it, but when all is said and done, aren't they're just simple plastic cylinders stacked up with some plumbing and a pump? From a materials standpoint, I don't get it. It's not like there are 50 LEDs in there that cost $6 a piece. There has to be more to it than just aquarium hobby mark-up. Forgive my naivety, and I'm not trying to be insulting to anyone in the industry. If there are any forum members that make these, I'd praise any enlightenment you could offer. Why are skimmers so expensive? Totally agree!!! I have always thought the same..... Its just basically formed plastic bits in a certain shape and a pump!!! I expect even the biggest ones only cost $30 - $40 in materials!!! Link to comment
iball1804 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's getting the right design. Link to comment
JamesHL88 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Aquatraders makes fine skimmers the i owned the ps 75 and it kept my 55 clean no problems pulling brown stinky all the time for $39. The reason tje others cost so much is the cost of american labor. Link to comment
1fishmonger Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The pump is usually the most expensive piece. Most DIY ones look like #### IME most 4" models are ~ $75-$300. I also don't have time to fabricate my own acrylic, and crap. ^ Yup. People care about looks and they're willing to pay for it. I imagine it would take quite a bit of time to come up with a usable (not to mention, presentable) DIY skimmer. FWIW, you don't have to run a skimmer. I ran an 8g cube with no skimmer for over a year. Just 1 par bulb, heater and an MP10. Aquatraders? Eesh... I know it's budget friendly but would not support that operation at all. Link to comment
siwelk Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I would still agree that they seem to be expensive compared to the materials used. Skimmers have a great PR dept. behind them. Link to comment
Mr. Microscope Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Aquatraders makes fine skimmers the i owned the ps 75 and it kept my 55 clean no problems pulling brown stinky all the time for $39. The reason tje others cost so much is the cost of american labor. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check them out. ^ Yup. People care about looks and they're willing to pay for it. I imagine it would take quite a bit of time to come up with a usable (not to mention, presentable) DIY skimmer. looks...like hidden away in the stand in their sump that they only see while doing maintenance? LOL. In all seriousness though, you're right. Some of them do look like real pieces of art. A DIY would probably be pretty ugly or hard to replicate. Though, I'm considering building one with an airstone and bottle for my cube. Like so. Though, it'll only be like 30 gallons total. So, I could get away with something ghetto like that. I'm sure I'd want a bigger one for a bigger tank. Link to comment
1fishmonger Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well considering the size bracket for the tank you have (I assume your sig is recent) - Most tanks in that size don't have sumps... Many are AIO and use HOB or in tank skimmers. Link to comment
nibor Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Cast acrylic tubing is expensive. Fabricating cast acrylic cones is expensive. + pump, specially designed impeller, gate valve. As mentioned R&D. After all that, they are bulky and fragile driving stocking and distribution costs up. I reckon the materials cost for a decent skimmer would be higher than a LED fixture of the same price. Link to comment
Cintax Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 All of the custom parts would be molded and the tubes would be extruded. The cost can be determined buy the shot size times acrylic price per pound at the specific bulk density plus machine time. Plastic is cheap as chips, even acrylic isn't bad. We were making these running boards that used a fiber glass reinforced nylon with special strength and thermal requirements (pliable at -40'C for use in Siberia) and it was just over $10 AUS per kilogram. That being said they were four kilograms per shot so each single piece was over forty dollars in plastic alone. I assure you that clear acrylic is much less expensive then engineered nylon blends. Even when you add in the cost of machine time and UV block its much less. For example the video below; all they were making was two 500g containers for dip or whatever else you need to put in plastic dip containers. The reason the mold was so expensive was that... well I'll just show you in a video. This machine has a 3.8s cycle time (it could be faster with anticipation - that is the robot doesn't stop before reaching the mold; it assumes the mold will be open in time or it will hit the mold. That's about 15.75 cycles per minute * 60 minutes * 24 hours * 2 cavities is about 45,000 parts per day. You can buy this mold for about $100,000 USD, that's heavily discounted being that we made this mold for a show. R&D for it was about $200,000. Because of the automation and the efficiency of all electric molding machines such as the one in the video the machine time would be fairly inexpensive maybe like $150 to $200 an hour. If you look at this hydraulic molding machine which does 2500 tonnes clamping pressure and runs four 100HP motors; its machine time is about $400 per hour. (To give you an idea of scale that platen is about seven feet tall) TL;DR - The initial R&D Cost is the reason why they are expensive initially, then you add the markup for the company name and for the 'specialized' aquarium industry, manpower(usually rolled into machine time), logistics of shipping, etc., that's where it adds up. The cheapest part is the manufacturing itself. Link to comment
brianep1968 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Everything in our hobby is expensive. Think about it, all of the little plastic parts that cost pennies to produce and cost 10 bucks at the store. Our food products are about 40 % more than fresh water products as well. We are in a specialized hobby and even though there are a lot of us out there we are the few the proud compared to other aquatic hobbies. Link to comment
nibor Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Decent protein skimmer bodies are made from cell cast not extruded tubing. Cone shaped bodies are made from cast acrylic sheet which is bent into a cone shape and welded. Bubble plates are CNC machined. The major parts of protein skimmers are not injection molded. Link to comment
M@! Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Here you go http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...:1#ht_500wt_837 Link to comment
Trogdor447 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I'm digging my eshoppes 75 its doing a hell of a good job Link to comment
Lawnman Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 That is a good deal I'm digging my eshoppes 75 its doing a hell of a good job I have a 120 in sump. Very nice skimmer Link to comment
devilsadvocate Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Here you go http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...:1#ht_500wt_837 yeah this is a ~200$ skimmer. (name brand) Link to comment
thewire Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Aquatraders makes fine skimmers the i owned the ps 75 and it kept my 55 clean no problems pulling brown stinky all the time for $39. The reason tje others cost so much is the cost of american labor. untrue..if you look closely, most of the crap is made in China anyway, so where is the labor?.. you want cheap skimmer..get skimz Link to comment
bizzarro Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 You're paying for the name as well as the quality of their parts used that's not acrylic like the pump. I didn't know Sicce pumps in my skimmer are expensive. Link to comment
Swanwillow Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Eshopps here too. Decently priced (in comparison to similar types) and really does do the job. Link to comment
FireCorals Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 That is why it is always nice to have a friend who is really good with acrylic I use to wonder this when I would watch people spend $2,500 for a BK for a 90g tank back in the "good ol" days, which consisted of less than $100 worth of acrylic and pump that has been replicated so many times over the years for a fraction of the cost of the original. Flabbergasting. I was always more than happy with the ASM's and BM's (before they were big). Link to comment
idontwan2know Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 It's a niche product, meaning the margin per unit needs to be high. That, and people are apparently willing to pay. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Cast acrylic tubing is expensive.Fabricating cast acrylic cones is expensive. + pump, specially designed impeller, gate valve. As mentioned R&D. After all that, they are bulky and fragile driving stocking and distribution costs up. I reckon the materials cost for a decent skimmer would be higher than a LED fixture of the same price. this. Decent protein skimmer bodies are made from cell cast not extruded tubing. Cone shaped bodies are made from cast acrylic sheet which is bent into a cone shape and welded. Bubble plates are CNC machined. The major parts of protein skimmers are not injection molded. this. Link to comment
Deano Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 It's a niche product, meaning the margin per unit needs to be high. That, and people are apparently willing to pay. Exactly. Maybe this will clarify it a bit more. Wikipedia Cost of production. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.