Return pumps keep dying...need advice!

[Hundo]

I have a 50g cadlights cube that's been up for about 18 months. My return line is 0.5" (I know, it should be at least 3/4", but this is what it came plumbed with...and I didn't know any better when I bought it...and I can't really change it now ). I replaced the stock chinese return pump with an Eheim 3000 (rated: 792 gph). It lasted maybe 8 months. Then I JUST replaced that with a Sicce Silent 3.0 (rated: 714 gph). It lasted 2 months and just died. Ugh.

 

I'm trying to figure out what's going wrong and how to fix it. In reading up, I think the potential culprits are:

1. Pumps are too large for 1/2" return line?

2. I shouldn't have restricted the intake (with the dial on the pump)...caused too much stress on the pumps

3. I need to tee off return line (back into the sump) to reduce back pressure on the pump??

 

Any ideas are much appreciated. Also, any pump recommendations would be great. I'm sick of blowing $100 on pumps every few months!

 

Thanks!

[evilc66]

1. No. Restricting the output is far less harmful to the pump that restricting the input

 

2. This is more likely. Restricting the input can lead to cavitation which will wreck a pump in short order, but that's usually with pumps that have a plumbed intake and not just an adjustable strainer.

 

3. Same as question #1

 

I would look into the quality of your power coming into the house. Get a power meter like a Kill-a-Watt and check the voltage and frequency of what is coming out of the wall. If the voltage is unusually high, or the frequency is off by a decent margin, then that may be leading to the early demise of your pumps. Unlike other pieces of equipment, the pump is the only one that relies heavily on the accuracy of the line voltage and waveform to operate properly. Heaters are resistive and really don't care. All lights that we use have a driver or ballast in between the bulb and the wall which can handle differences in incoming voltage and frequency easily.

[AZDesertRat]

Do you remove the pumps every couple months and soak them in distilled white vinegar to clean them up? It does not take much calcium build up to stop or slow a pump. Why do you say they are dead? Have you tried cleaning before tossing them?

[Hundo]

Evil-

Many thanks for the explanation. I have the pump run through my Apex, which is plugged into the surge protection side of an APC battery backup. I'm not sure either the Apex or the APC would eliminate/"catch" any potential power quality issues, but I'll order the kill-a-watt regardless and check it. If there is a voltage or frequency problem, is there an easy(ish) fix that doesn't require an electrician re-wiring the whole room or house??

[Hundo]

AZ-

 

With the Eheim, I was pretty bad at cleaning it. I took it out about 6 months in, disassembled and scrubbed it, but didn't do a vinegar soak. When it crapped out on me, I did a 3 day vinegar soak and it still wouldn't turn on.

 

The Sicce didn't even last 2 months. I'll try a vinegar bath on it now. When I plug it in, it sort of hums, but the impeller doesn't spin at all.

 

All this said, I totally get that I need to be better about cleaning the return pump. I'm pretty good about cleaning my gyre, so I'll just start pulling the return pump at the same time.

[braaap]

AZ-

 

With the Eheim, I was pretty bad at cleaning it. I took it out about 6 months in, disassembled and scrubbed it, but didn't do a vinegar soak. When it crapped out on me, I did a 3 day vinegar soak and it still wouldn't turn on.

 

The Sicce didn't even last 2 months. I'll try a vinegar bath on it now. When I plug it in, it sort of hums, but the impeller doesn't spin at all.

 

All this said, I totally get that I need to be better about cleaning the return pump. I'm pretty good about cleaning my gyre, so I'll just start pulling the return pump at the same time.

 

I haven't cleaned my Jeabo DCT8000 in 8 months. Should I? Probably. But that shouldn't be the cause of failure. I'm with Evil. Sounds like you have a power issues frying the pumps.

[Hundo]

I'm picking up a Kill A Watt power meter at Home Depot in an hour and will update the thread accordingly. I'm also going to take another run at cleaning both pumps just to make sure they are indeed toast.

[evilc66]

Evil-

Many thanks for the explanation. I have the pump run through my Apex, which is plugged into the surge protection side of an APC battery backup. I'm not sure either the Apex or the APC would eliminate/"catch" any potential power quality issues, but I'll order the kill-a-watt regardless and check it. If there is a voltage or frequency problem, is there an easy(ish) fix that doesn't require an electrician re-wiring the whole room or house??

Are you absolutely 100% positive that you don't have the pumps on the backup side of the APC? Most UPS devices within a reasonable price range use a modified sine wave on the inverter that can really put the hurt on things like pumps (pure sine wave UPS models are quite expensive). If you have it on the backup side and you've had some short power outages, then the modified sine wave may be at fault.

 

Voltage and frequency problems are unfortunately down to the power company and the quality of the local leg of the power distribution network. If you do happen to see issues on the line, then you can let the utility company know so they can possibly investigate it. You may need to see if a few of your neighbors are having similar issues to make a case for the utility to actually get off their ass and look. It's possible a local substation may be running out of spec. Long story short, there is nothing really that you personally can do to remedy the issue, and rewiring the house won't fix the problem. If the utility can't or won't find the issue, then your only option would be to install a line conditioner that would bring the voltage and frequency back to spec.

 

On a brighter note, if there is a problem with your power, and the utility won't do anything about it, the easiest fix is going to be using a DC return pump. That will put a power supply in between the wall and the pump, and the power supply will tolerate incoming power that is out of spec.

[braaap]

On a brighter note, if there is a problem with your power, and the utility won't do anything about it, the easiest fix is going to be using a DC return pump. That will put a power supply in between the wall and the pump, and the power supply will tolerate incoming power that is out of spec.

 

I was going to say this but didn't want to open my mouth on something I wasn't positive about. My DCT8000 has the power supply and it has run flawlessly for me since day 1. Granted I'm fairly certain my power isn't an issue to begin with.

[Hundo]

Yes, I'm 100% sure the Apex is plugged into the "surge protection only" side of the APC (I just triple checked). Maybe I should just plug the Apex straight into the wall...or a cheapy surge protector that isn't connected to the APC??

 

I swung by HD and grabbed a Kill-a-watt meter. I just sat and stared at the readings for about 5min and it seems pretty consistent. Voltage is 118.5-118.7 and the frequency sticks to 59.9-60.0 Hz. I'll keep peeking at it to see if I see something different coming through. I'm also dis-assembling and vinegar soaking both pumps to see if either one comes back to life.

I'm thinking about ordering the 'beefier' Eheim pump (the 1260). Everyone says they are built like tanks, so maybe that eliminates a variable :/

[evilc66]

Plugging the Apex into the wall may help. At the very least, it removes one variable seeing as the power quality seems to be pretty good based on what you have observed.

 

When you plugged the Kill-a-Watt in, was that in the wall, or one of the outlets of the APC or Apex? I would test all power points between the wall and the pump just to make sure that something in the middle isn't the cause (even the Apex power bar)

[gus6464]

If you replace your pump just order a Jebao DCS7000.

 

http://www.fish-street.com/jebaojecod_dctdcs_water_return_pump_us_delivery_canj_warehouse

[Hundo]

I plugged the Kill-a-watt into the APC outlet that was/is powering the the Apex. I'll try the rest of the outlet chain. Regardless, I'm going to move the Apex off of the APC just to eliminate that as a potential issue. Thanks for all the help!

[Hundo]

So...you're not going to believe this...cause I sure as shit don't...

 

The pump on my skimmer just died too. Plugged into the same Apex thru the same APC :/ Unbelievable. The worst part is that it's a Reef Dynamics skimmer that works GREAT, but I bought it right before they went out of business. Going to try to source another pump for it somehow. Ugh. Screw this day.

 

The Apex is now moved over to a different electrical outlet straight into the wall.

[evilc66]

Man, I sure hope you find the source of the trouble.

[littlephish]

Do you ever destroy any other electrical items in your house with your wiring? For example my house destroyed 2x laptop cables and countless usb cables (and converters). I had to get a little extreme to fix it, but in my experience running stuff through a good UPS with voltage regulator helps.

[JP Reef]

So...you're not going to believe this...cause I sure as shit don't...

 

The pump on my skimmer just died too. Plugged into the same Apex thru the same APC :/ Unbelievable. The worst part is that it's a Reef Dynamics skimmer that works GREAT, but I bought it right before they went out of business. Going to try to source another pump for it somehow. Ugh. Screw this day.

 

The Apex is now moved over to a different electrical outlet straight into the wall.

Not the same thing but similar. I used to run a red sea wavemaker on some koralia's and my return pump on one of the outlets. I came back from a work trip and the mag 12 return pump wasn't running. Troubleshot the pump, and needed to purchase a new one as it was dead. Installed as soon as it showed up and the first night I used the feed mode the new pump was dead when I tried to restart. Never found out what exactly caused it, but never again used the wavemaker. It was definitely the cause though. I think the outlet was causing a current spike when shifting to feed mode. Never verified because I didn't have a pump I was willing to damage to test.